Mixed feelings about zoos/aquariums

[wildr0se2]

As I am a month in on my vegan journey, I am on the fence about the ethics around zoos/aquariums/places of entertainment. On one hand, I can see how they can exploit animals. Take SeaWorld Florida, for example, with the orcas years ago. Or animals who are kept in captivity and are not cared for properly. But what about these places that DO treat animals ethically? I have read mixed things about whether it is vegan to go to these places. I rarely take trips to places like those, but still. What do y'all think?

I definitely would be down to visit a sanctuary, though! I love knowing some species are being rescued.

 

[Lou]

Well, it depends.
Something that is new is that now PETA supports "some zoos".
I know I read something about this a while back but now I can't find it. but if I find it I'll post a link here.

 

[PTree15]

I've never liked zoos, even when I was a kid. I always felt bad for the animals, having to live in cages and in such small areas.

 

[shyvas]

But what about these places that DO treat animals ethically? I have read mixed things about whether it is vegan to go to these places. I rarely take trips to places like those, but still. What do y'all think?

I definitely would be down to visit a sanctuary, though! I love knowing some species are being rescued.

Firstly, congratulations for starting a vegan journey. Everyone's path is different and we all learn as we go along. Please feel free to ask any question that you may have.

Perhaps you should obtain some useful information from the Vegan Society a s their definition of veganism is spot on:

"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."

Go Vegan

www.vegansociety.com

Secondly, there is no such thing as an animal being treated ethically if it's in captivity. All animals should be left in their natural habitat; the wild.

Anyone, that goes to a place where an animal is being held prisoner cannot say that they are a vegan.


There is a huge difference between an animal sanctuary (not a petting farm, where animals are exploited) and a zoo or entertainment park/aquarium. The former take in abandoned animals or those who have been saved from exploitation. Moreover, they need support and funds from the public as their one and only objective is to provide a safe environment for these animals.

Seaprison (aka as Seaworld) is the most sad and appalling place for orcas and sea turtles. Poor Lulu who has been in captivity for 84 years in Brighton's Seaprison, is a living example.

I'm part of a local group (Brighton Animal Rights) who demonstrates on a monthly basis outside this prison.

Not only is it wrong, but Lulu's life has been stolen from her. She will never know what it's like to swim in the wild, have babies and know what freedom feels like. She spends her days and nights in a dingy, dark and cold tank, swimming around in circles, whilst a pimp makes money by showing her sadness to an avid audience who simply do not care.



Lulu who is in obvious distress.

Will Sea Life Brighton Finally Release The World’s Oldest Captive Sea Turtle For Her Twilight Years?

Animal activists are calling for the release of the world's oldest captive sea turtle, Lulu, from Sea Life in Brighton

plantbasednews.org

Please read:

What's Wrong With Zoos & Aquariums? | Born Free USA.

 

[KLS52]

I've never liked zoos, even when I was a kid. I always felt bad for the animals, having to live in cages and in such small areas.

As a kid I was always torn between feeling bad for the animals and their restrictive environments and my love and fascination for them, wanting to see/touch them.

We used to go to the Catskill Game Farm in New York every year and I loved feeding the baby goats and deer. I was clueless until I started bringing my own kids there and started learning more about such places.

 

[Second Summer]

Some zoos take part in species conservation programmes which are obviously important for species on the brink of extinction. Though they might not care as much about the individual animals as they care about the species. And they usually can't do much to help preserve the natural habitats of the animals which are often threatened as well.

I and the family have visited Monkey World in Dorset, UK, a couple of times and even donated money. It's described as a "ape and monkey sanctuary, rescue centre and primatarium". The one thing that is similar to a zoo is that human visitors can watch wild animals, and the animals obviously are somewhat confined, but they mostly have larger areas to roam than in zoos, and there are places to hide out of view from human visitors. There was also a wonderful long-running TV series about Monkey World and the work they do that aired some years ago here in the UK.

 

[Lou]

like all things philosophically its not always black and white.
PETA used to be totally against all Zoos but recently they have recognized that Some zoos do more good than harm. There is even an accreditation group that they rely on to help judge which zoos are OK.

Again I read about this a while back but I haven't found the article yet. I'll look when I have more time but maybe someone here has seen it.

 

[Lou]

Did a deeper google dive and did not find the article I was thinking of.
It may have been something in my local paper. Oakland Zoo is not that far from me and they have collaborated with PETA. Not necessarily an endorsement but something.

"...Oakland Zoo has long prioritized common sense and welfare, and PETA looks forward to continued collaboration on improving the welfare of captive wildlife across the U.S."
- Brittany Peet, Esq., Director, Captive Animal Law Enforcement, PETA Foundation

 

[Tom L.]

Welcome and congratulations on going vegan, @wildr0se2 !

I think it's possible for some places to keep animals in captivity and still take adequate care of them- but it's not easy. An animal can have a reliable, steady supply of the best food and water, as well as veterinary care- and yet still be unhappy because they don't have proper contact with their own species (if they're an animal who likes to live in groups) or enough space to move around in (such as a bird in a cage or a dolphin in a tank).

Thinking back, it took me a long time to grasp this because I was aware of how animals were raised and killed for food and other reasons. Compared to that, a zoo or game farm seems benign (like the one in Catskill, NY, which my family visited several times, as did @KLS52 's family). Gradually, my opinion changed somewhat. I remember seeing a rhinoceros who seemed to have as much space within the fencing around him as I do in my house... and a dolphin performing in a tank who seemed sad.

 

[Chryssie]

I have not been to a zoo or Sea World in years and years though Lynda and I did visit the Clearwater Aquarium a couple years ago. This is a non-profit rescue that was made famous by the movie "Dolphin Tale" about a dolphin that was rehabilitated. The animals there are not able to be released back into the wild. These kinds of places are good as the money they get from admissions goes to the care of the animals and environmental issues. Now on the other hand, Sea World is pretty bad for the exploitation with the animal shows but they do also do rehabilitation work which is very important. So I have very mixed feelings about Sea World but as the tickets are outrageously expensive, it isn't much of a dilemma.

 

[KLS52]

I've been to Mystic Aquarium a few times when my grandkids were younger but not in the last 8 years or so. It is non profit and they do some rehabilitation/releases but not all of the animals fall into that category.

They did receive certification from the American Humane Organization, whatever that means/is worth. They do focus on education/conservation but I'm pretty sure there were allegations at some point of animal mistreatment.

 

[Brian W]

Some zoos take part in species conservation programmes which are obviously important for species on the brink of extinction.

The animals don't care about their species being on the edge of extinction, that is just a human folly, the animals just want to live their own lives in freedom and happiness. There are no valid excuses for zoos to exist!

 

[shyvas]

The animals don't care about their species being on the edge of extinction, that is just a human folly, the animals just want to live their own lives in freedom and happiness. There are no valid excuses for zoos to exist!

I totally agree and feel very strongly about this subject.

An animal has a life and hence a moral right to exist. Capturing and holding it in a prison and not allowing the creature to use it's instincts and live/survive freely is morally wrong. Not allowing the animal to thrive in it's natural habitat is exploitation. It's simply not ethical, as zoos and aquariums are used for human entertainment. The former make a profit and their priorities are not the animals' requirements.

Moreover, when they say that they are involved in conservation programme, it's simply to gloss over. The only conservation that is deemed useful, is carried out in the wild/country of the animals' origin.

I'm gobsmacked by some of the comments on this thread. None of my vegan acquaintances or friends IRL support zoos or aquariums. On the contrary, we go and demonstrate outside the aquariums and get insulted! During last weeks demo, a pal got a leaflet thrown into her face and sadly, she suffered a mini stroke.

Field Conservation - Conservation Charity

Born Free is a wildlife conservation charity committed to protecting threatened wild animals in their natural habitats. Read more about our conservation projects.

www.bornfree.org.uk

 

[wildr0se2]

Firstly, congratulations for starting a vegan journey. Everyone's path is different and we all learn as we go along. Please feel free to ask any question that you may have.

Perhaps you should obtain some useful information from the Vegan Society a s their definition of veganism is spot on:

"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."

Go Vegan

www.vegansociety.com

Secondly, there is no such thing as an animal being treated ethically if it's in captivity. All animals should be left in their natural habitat; the wild.

Anyone, that goes to a place where an animal is being held prisoner cannot say that they are a vegan.


There is a huge difference between an animal sanctuary (not a petting farm, where animals are exploited) and a zoo or entertainment park/aquarium. The former take in abandoned animals or those who have been saved from exploitation. Moreover, they need support and funds from the public as their one and only objective is to provide a safe environment for these animals.

Seaprison (aka as Seaworld) is the most sad and appalling place for orcas and sea turtles. Poor Lulu who has been in captivity for 83 years in Brighton's Seaprison, is a living example.

I'm part of a local group (Brighton Animal Rights) who demonstrates on a monthly basis outside this prison.

Not only is it wrong, but Lulu's life has been stolen from her. She will never know what it's like to swim in the wild, have babies and know what freedom feels like. She spends her days and nights in a dingy, dark and cold tank, swimming around in circles, whilst a pimp makes money by showing her sadness to an avid audience who simply do not care.

View attachment 31342

Lulu who is in obvious distress.

Will Sea Life Brighton Finally Release The World’s Oldest Captive Sea Turtle For Her Twilight Years?

Animal activists are calling for the release of the world's oldest captive sea turtle, Lulu, from Sea Life in Brighton

plantbasednews.org

Please read:

What's Wrong With Zoos & Aquariums? | Born Free USA.

Thank you so much for the information!

I have seen the definition from the Vegan Society before and I resonate with the idea of reducing animal exploitation as much as possible. I also think it's spot on calling SeaWorld "seaprison". I am surprised it is still operating considering how Tilikum and other orcas were treated. And poor Lulu I find it ironic how Brighton claims Lulu wouldn't survive in the wild, yet isn't her captivity the reason she probably wouldn't??? The math isn't mathing.

I am still on the fence about zoos. I think I will do some more research before taking a formal stance on them. It is difficult challenging beliefs that have been ingrained most of my life. Regardless, I am glad I am learning more about veganism and animal welfare. I don't think I will go to a zoo anytime soon.

 

[wildr0se2]

The animals don't care about their species being on the edge of extinction, that is just a human folly, the animals just want to live their own lives in freedom and happiness. There are no valid excuses for zoos to exist!

What do you mean by human folly? Because I feel like animals would be afraid of dying and not want to go extinct.

 

[shyvas]

 

[Andy_T]

Not much to contribute here that has not been said, so sharing one of Gary Larson’s thoughts on the topic…

 

[fakei]

Animals seem follow their instincts and do not necessarily know what is best for them. If you open a cage to a canary he will probably fly away despite of having little chance of survival. It's possible that in some situations knowing the alternatives animals would rather prefer living under custody.

The problem is that no one knows and once an animal is in custody the owner becomes responsible for what happens to him and the animal dependent of him, while in the wild the animal is independent and responsible for himself.

The other issue is that food has to be provided to him, so choice is being made between one animal and the others.

Finally there is the environmental issue, in nature animals have a sustainable lifestyle without packages or the need for everything necessary to accommodate them in an artificially created environment and are subordinated to the rules of the ecosystem, under human custody this changes.

 

[Second Summer]

What do you mean by human folly? Because I feel like animals would be afraid of dying and not want to go extinct.

Maybe what he means, in addition to what he said explicitly about animals not caring about the survival of their species, just wanting to live good lives: The idea of conserving species could be considered nonsensical because evolution is just how nature works, and part of that is extinction of species. Animal Rights philosophy instead focuses on the rights of the individual animals.

My argument against this is that the extinction of species in the human era is happening at an unprecedented rate, and that we are the cause of the extinctions, and that we risk destroying entire ecosystems when animal species go extinct. Therefore, taking steps to conserve animal species can make sense, but only if we also take steps to preserve or restore the habitats of these same animals. Although, at the same time we most definitely also have an obligation to make sure the animals have good lives.

 

[veganfortheanimalss]

If the zoo/aquarium has plenty of space for the animals to roam around like a sanctuary, has good nutritious food and proper medical care, then I'd say it's ok. Cramped spaces is torture, period. It's better if the animals live less longer lives in the wild compared to cramped torture cages.