Struggling with idea of full Veganism

[Jenny3315]

Hi everybody, I'm new here and I was so glad to find this place.

I am a vegetarian but have become very aware of how harmful ingesting eggs and dairy is for animals and am struggling to feel good about where I am at - I'm basically going against my beliefs every time I eat eggs and dairy. I have greatly reduced the eggs and dairy I eat and I use no animal products for clothes, beauty etc. I still feel like this isn't good enough.

However, there are a few reasons I am hesitant to try to go completely vegan. The first is a three decade history of eating disorders. Restricting for any reason is a huge trigger for me in regards to anorexia/bulimia. The second is my anxious 12 year old daughter who is also vegetarian. She loves cheese and ice cream but I know that if I go vegan she will feel she has to as well. She has OCD and I'm concerned about the impact this would have on her mental health - there is no way she will not become obsessive. I also worry about her developing an eating disorder like I did at that age. She has always been my number one and I don't know how I could do this while doing what is best for her. She also won't eat beans, lentils etc and cheese is a major protein source fo her. And lastly the third, ever since my daughter was three we have gotten ice cream out once a week. It is a precious tradition. I know there are dairy free alternatives at home but none of the places we go have them.

I am trying to make peace with being 'mostly vegan' but I have a very all or nothing attitude and feel like I am just making excuses. Any helpful/kind words would be appreciated.

 

[Emma JC]

welcome to the forum - I don't have time today to write you a long encouraging note and if no one else has done so, I will try to over the next couple of days - doing your best for your health, the animals and the planet is all that can asked of us all and as @Lou often quotes "Veganism is a lifestyle that seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of animal exploitation and cruelty. It's about doing what you can, rather than achieving perfection. To make it sustainable, you can focus on building plant-based habits, stocking essentials, and utilizing local resources."

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[silva]

Obsessing is such a road block to progress. I used to suffer and honestly, if I didn't change I would have blocked any thought of dairy and would eat cheese every day! I'll never forget pacing up and down aisles of a drugstore, going out and sitting in my car---all because I had discovered algae DHA made a noticeable improvement and the store had a BOGO on large bottles that was crazy cheap. And they were in gelatin capsules. I was so anxious knowing how much more the vegan ones cost and how stretched my money was. I went back in and bought them. I never looked back.
I think many people feel they'd slip and the guilt would be so bad. It's better to do better than wait until you can be perfect, because perfect doesn't come.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. You need to do what keeps you and your child moving forward, and if that means being 'mostly' vegan, that's better than letting your mental health suffer. The more you discover new ways to make food the less animal based things you'll use.

Do you like to cook? It's amazing how many things you can transform with beans and lentils. Salted edamame pods, red lentils cooked in pasta sauces, crunchy bean snacks.....
I've always seen Columbus as having so many more vegan options than Cleveland--where I'm near. I've been wanting to make a trip and go to Seitans Realm
I'm about to make a copycat Dole pineapple whip. I think I'm gonna just go with blending the frozen pineapple with almond milk I need to use. Most recipes call for coconut milk

 

[Lou]

@Emma, thank you for that.
It's nice to know that someone is paying attention to me.

Hi everybody, I'm new here and I was so glad to find this place.

I still feel like this isn't good enough.

That is in a way a good thing. and something that we all should remember in all of our endeavors.
Being perfect is not attainable. And not trying because you can't be perfect is .. um... self defeating.
instead to paraphrase a football coach, you have to try to be better - every day.

However, there are a few reasons I am hesitant to try to go completely vegan. The first is a three decade history of eating disorders.

Walking the line between eating disorder and veganism is difficult and tricky. A lot of doctors will forbid people with Eds to go vegan. However I'm pretty sure that a person can "flirt" with a vegan diet and not make themselves crazy. in fact, the reduction of guilt and the feeling of accomplishment should be a positive thing.

I've heard it said that people with EDs should not track calories. right? it can trigger. however what if you track the calories (and nutrients) and at the end of the make sure you meet your goals. When I was in the care of an RD, after dinner if I hadn't met my goals I would make a snack. A chocolate PB Banana milkshake usually did it.


as far as your teenager. I like the idea of facing the issues and treating it as a challenge.
I've heard from so many people they don't like beans or that beans don't like them.
But there are thousands of types of beans and millions of recipes with beans. You just have to try some of them.
Also its. been established that there is a real brain stomach interconnectivity. I'm not going to get into it now but if you are motivated to. become vegan - then you should read some of that material. I don't have the titles handy but you can probably google them yourself. Or just ask the members for suggestions.

I know there are dairy free alternatives at home but none of the places we go have them.

That could be but then you probably haven't been to all the places close by yet. I know than B&R has at least one dairy free flavor at all times. And there is sherbet. and if push comes to shove, just go out for some thing else and have some Ben and Jerry's at home. This might be just the excuse you were looking for to buy an ice cream maker and make homemade ice cream. And it could be fun. Think of all the flavors you can invent.

I am trying to make peace with being 'mostly vegan' but I have a very all or nothing attitude and feel like I am just making excuses. Any helpful/kind words would be appreciated.

ok, how about this. No one is 100 % vegan as far as a lifestyle goes. Most vegans if they were to really analyze their diet by calories, or money spent , or protein are less than 100%. Maybe this week you are 80% so next week try for 81.

Also IMHO it's not really about percentages. it's about trying. in fact as the Vegan society puts it, Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for....

I used bold for emphasis.

 

[Jenny3315]

welcome to the forum - I don't have time today to write you a long encouraging note and if no one else has done so, I will try to over the next couple of days - doing your best for your health, the animals and the planet is all that can asked of us all and as @Lou often quotes "Veganism is a lifestyle that seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of animal exploitation and cruelty. It's about doing what you can, rather than achieving perfection. To make it sustainable, you can focus on building plant-based habits, stocking essentials, and utilizing local resources."

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it and such encouragement reminds me of why I am doing this in the first place and excites me to do more.

 

[Jenny3315]

Obsessing is such a road block to progress. I used to suffer and honestly, if I didn't change I would have blocked any thought of dairy and would eat cheese every day! I'll never forget pacing up and down aisles of a drugstore, going out and sitting in my car---all because I had discovered algae DHA made a noticeable improvement and the store had a BOGO on large bottles that was crazy cheap. And they were in gelatin capsules. I was so anxious knowing how much more the vegan ones cost and how stretched my money was. I went back in and bought them. I never looked back.
I think many people feel they'd slip and the guilt would be so bad. It's better to do better than wait until you can be perfect, because perfect doesn't come.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. You need to do what keeps you and your child moving forward, and if that means being 'mostly' vegan, that's better than letting your mental health suffer. The more you discover new ways to make food the less animal based things you'll use.

Do you like to cook? It's amazing how many things you can transform with beans and lentils. Salted edamame pods, red lentils cooked in pasta sauces, crunchy bean snacks.....
I've always seen Columbus as having so many more vegan options than Cleveland--where I'm near. I've been wanting to make a trip and go to Seitans Realm
I'm about to make a copycat Dole pineapple whip. I think I'm gonna just go with blending the frozen pineapple with almond milk I need to use. Most recipes call for coconut milk

I can imagine that expense can be a big barrier for lots of people - I wouldn't have the extra money to burn either. I haven't even started checking all the supplements/meds I take but I think that is one area I will have to compromise as well. For example if my antidepressant I've been on for decades has gelatin there is no way I can stop it - I've tried all the alternatives and it's the only thing that helps my OCD. In a perfect world we wouldn't have to make choices between our health and using animal products - but when there is no other option, there is no other option.

I do like to cook and I'm beginning to experiment - I think with enough effort I can find things my daughter will eat. I haven't been to Seitans Realm but now that I am going to try to move towards veganism I have found a lot of good places around here to try.

 

[Jenny3315]

@Emma, thank you for that.
It's nice to know that someone is paying attention to me.



That is in a way a good thing. and something that we all should remember in all of our endeavors.
Being perfect is not attainable. And not trying because you can't be perfect is .. um... self defeating.
instead to paraphrase a football coach, you have to try to be better - every day.




Walking the line between eating disorder and veganism is difficult and tricky. A lot of doctors will forbid people with Eds to go vegan. However I'm pretty sure that a person can "flirt" with a vegan diet and not make themselves crazy. in fact, the reduction of guilt and the feeling of accomplishment should be a positive thing.

I've heard it said that people with EDs should not track calories. right? it can trigger. however what if you track the calories (and nutrients) and at the end of the make sure you meet your goals. When I was in the care of an RD, after dinner if I hadn't met my goals I would make a snack. A chocolate PB Banana milkshake usually did it.


as far as your teenager. I like the idea of facing the issues and treating it as a challenge.
I've heard from so many people they don't like beans or that beans don't like them.
But there are thousands of types of beans and millions of recipes with beans. You just have to try some of them.
Also its. been established that there is a real brain stomach interconnectivity. I'm not going to get into it now but if you are motivated to. become vegan - then you should read some of that material. I don't have the titles handy but you can probably google them yourself. Or just ask the members for suggestions.



That could be but then you probably haven't been to all the places close by yet. I know than B&R has at least one dairy free flavor at all times. And there is sherbet. and if push comes to shove, just go out for some thing else and have some Ben and Jerry's at home. This might be just the excuse you were looking for to buy an ice cream maker and make homemade ice cream. And it could be fun. Think of all the flavors you can invent.


ok, how about this. No one is 100 % vegan as far as a lifestyle goes. Most vegans if they were to really analyze their diet by calories, or money spent , or protein are less than 100%. Maybe this week you are 80% so next week try for 81.

Also IMHO it's not really about percentages. it's about trying. in fact as the Vegan society puts it, Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for....

I used bold for emphasis.

Thank you for your response and suggestions. I think there are ways around most of the barriers I mentioned - like you said the eating disorder is where it gets really tricky. I believe as long as I don't obsess over being perfect I can do it in a healthful way. But when I start obsessing over every morsel of food I put in my mouth I'm asking for disaster. I'm going to do my best for now without obsessing - maybe it won't be as hard as I think. But hearing that perfection isn't expected/required from people who I admire (vegans such as yourself) is super helpful.

 

[Lou]

But hearing that perfection isn't expected/required from people who I admire (vegans such as yourself) is super helpful.

lets take that one step further. vegans often refer to trying to achieve perfection as "personal purity" . Peter Singer, a well respected author and philosopher, cautioned vegans not to worry about personal purity. That as a goal it did more harm than good.

PETA also takes a negative stance on personal purity. Instead of me trying to state it I'm going to take a short cut and just copy and paste what Google AI has summarized

PETA explicitly states that veganism and animal rights are not about personal purity or perfection. They argue that the goal is to reduce animal suffering and advocate for change. Getting overly caught up in tiny details, like trace amounts of animal products or "may contain" labels, often hurts animals by alienating people from making compassionate choices. [1, 2, 3, 4]​

Their core philosophy on this includes:​

• The Bigger Picture: Shunning products that are nearly 99% vegan simply because they might contain trace amounts sends the wrong message to food manufacturers and makes vegan living look too difficult to others. [1]
• Effective Advocacy: PETA believes that inspiring others to adopt a vegan lifestyle is far more valuable than maintaining absolute, flawless personal purity. [1]
• Embracing Mistakes: They advise people not to stress over accidental slip-ups (such as a tiny bit of dairy in a bun or surprise cheese in a dish). Instead, they encourage individuals to do their best and focus on the overall reduction of animal exploitation. [1, 2, 3]

For example, when addressing the "may contain" ingredient warning, PETA notes that the main purpose of such labels is for severe allergies, not to actively support the meat or dairy industries. [1]​

​

​

 

[Jenny3315]

I had no idea that was Petas stance! Thank you so much!

 

[Lou]

I had no idea that was Petas stance! Thank you so much!

not to feed a fed horse but I thought of a few more things overnight.

In regards to "the bigger picture" and "effective advocacy".

Sure companies that only make and/or sell vegan products should be your favorites but if a company makes only one vegan product or mostly vegan product - If you need it - buy it.
I take it a step further. like when Taco Bell added vegan menus I went to Taco Bell to try them out. In general I don't like Taco Bell but if a company can't sell them then they will stop making them.

Sometimes the best form of effective advocacy is to be "the shining example". Be a happy healthy vegan and not the cautionary tale. There are a lot of what I call fussy vegans or what the population generally classifies as a bit nutty. Being a good example is not that hard. Just not going to extremes is usually enough.

 

[Tom L.]

I can imagine that expense can be a big barrier for lots of people - I wouldn't have the extra money to burn either. I haven't even started checking all the supplements/meds I take but I think that is one area I will have to compromise as well. For example if my antidepressant I've been on for decades has gelatin there is no way I can stop it - I've tried all the alternatives and it's the only thing that helps my OCD. In a perfect world we wouldn't have to make choices between our health and using animal products - but when there is no other option, there is no other option.

I do like to cook and I'm beginning to experiment - I think with enough effort I can find things my daughter will eat. I haven't been to Seitans Realm but now that I am going to try to move towards veganism I have found a lot of good places around here to try.

Congratulations to you and your daughter for making these changes!

 

[Chryssie]

I agree with everyone else! We do the best we can and try not to stress about the small stuff!

 

[shyvas]

Being a good example is not that hard. Just not going to extremes is usually enough.

What one person considers to be extreme may be the norm for another one. Moreover, it's not always a question about setting an
example but being true to yourself.

A strict vegetarian who mainly consumes a plant based diet is not a vegan.

 

[1956]

From my perspective my lifestyle is Not extreme…
My food, clothing and personal hygiene products are All labeled Vegan… Well, the clothes may not be labeled, but I Know that they don’t come from animal sources…
Because there is adequate labelling Even the wine I buy is Vegan!
Are there products that I use that are not Vegan - possibly - most likely because they are products which are not Obviously coming from non-Vegan sources…
Flesh and dairy products are Not something that I miss - rather I am Pleased that they are Not part of my life

 

[1956]

Hi everybody, I'm new here and I was so glad to find this place.

I am a vegetarian but have become very aware of how harmful ingesting eggs and dairy is for animals and am struggling to feel good about where I am at - I'm basically going against my beliefs every time I eat eggs and dairy. I have greatly reduced the eggs and dairy I eat and I use no animal products for clothes, beauty etc. I still feel like this isn't good enough.

However, there are a few reasons I am hesitant to try to go completely vegan. The first is a three decade history of eating disorders. Restricting for any reason is a huge trigger for me in regards to anorexia/bulimia. The second is my anxious 12 year old daughter who is also vegetarian. She loves cheese and ice cream but I know that if I go vegan she will feel she has to as well. She has OCD and I'm concerned about the impact this would have on her mental health - there is no way she will not become obsessive. I also worry about her developing an eating disorder like I did at that age. She has always been my number one and I don't know how I could do this while doing what is best for her. She also won't eat beans, lentils etc and cheese is a major protein source fo her. And lastly the third, ever since my daughter was three we have gotten ice cream out once a week. It is a precious tradition. I know there are dairy free alternatives at home but none of the places we go have them.

I am trying to make peace with being 'mostly vegan' but I have a very all or nothing attitude and feel like I am just making excuses. Any helpful/kind words would be appreciated.

Hello @Jenny3315 and welcome…
I have been hesitant to respond because I don’t have experience or expertise in eating disorders…
However, anxiety is something that I do have personal experience with…Have either of you had counselling in regards to your issues?
It’s understandable that you have concerns regarding both of your health - but I would also have concerns about How healthy eating dairy cheese is? As well as whether eating eggs is healthy?
My suggestion would be to try to do as much research as possible, in my opinion a Healthy Vegan diet is far better for one’s health than a diet based on veggies and dairy…
My very best wishes to you and your daughter

 

[allindogecoin]

Hi everybody, I'm new here and I was so glad to find this place.

I am a vegetarian but have become very aware of how harmful ingesting eggs and dairy is for animals and am struggling to feel good about where I am at - I'm basically going against my beliefs every time I eat eggs and dairy. I have greatly reduced the eggs and dairy I eat and I use no animal products for clothes, beauty etc. I still feel like this isn't good enough.

However, there are a few reasons I am hesitant to try to go completely vegan. The first is a three decade history of eating disorders. Restricting for any reason is a huge trigger for me in regards to anorexia/bulimia. The second is my anxious 12 year old daughter who is also vegetarian. She loves cheese and ice cream but I know that if I go vegan she will feel she has to as well. She has OCD and I'm concerned about the impact this would have on her mental health - there is no way she will not become obsessive. I also worry about her developing an eating disorder like I did at that age. She has always been my number one and I don't know how I could do this while doing what is best for her. She also won't eat beans, lentils etc and cheese is a major protein source fo her. And lastly the third, ever since my daughter was three we have gotten ice cream out once a week. It is a precious tradition. I know there are dairy free alternatives at home but none of the places we go have them.

I am trying to make peace with being 'mostly vegan' but I have a very all or nothing attitude and feel like I am just making excuses. Any helpful/kind words would be appreciated.

As someone who has no experience with eating disorders, anorexia, or looking after children, there is probably little I can advise, but I noticed that your daughter loves to eat cheese and ice cream and perhaps a health angle can be helpful eg I am aware that cheese has high levels of advanced glycation end-products (AGEs) which cause accelerated ageing, and ice cream of course is high in sugar, which cause your body to produce AGEs. This is something to keep in mind.

Regarding eggs and dairy, if removing them and switching to a vegan alternative, we need to be mindful of certain nutrients in eggs and dairy. For many vegetarians, eggs provide choline. Personally I find that the easiest way to get choline is to add about one teaspoon of soy lecithin (or even better sunflower lecithin) into food every day. This should provide enough choline to replace the choline you wouldn't be getting if you do not eat eggs. As for dairy, vegans should replace this with fortified soy milk. I personally have two glasses of fortified soy milk (mixed with some cacao powder for good flavour as well as flavonoids) per day to ensure enough calcium. Something else to check in fortified soy milk is whether it has preformed vitamin A e.g. vitamin A palmitate). Having preformed vitamin A is important because about 50% of the population do not have the BCM01 gene that converts betacarotene into vitamin A, which means that if they are relying on e.g. carrots or other orange vegetables for vitamin A, there is a risk you are not getting enough vitamin A. Simply look for a fortified soy milk brand that has vitamin A and have two cups per day and that will solve the issue. Also continue to eat orange food (carrots, sweet potato, pumpkins, etc).

Some people may think this is all too hard, but it is simply because we are socialised or developed habits when we become omnivores or vegetarian, and veganism has its own habits needed to be healthy. One just needs to develop these new habits. For me, I am so used to having one teaspoon of lecithin and two cups of fortified soy milk per day that it is not difficult for me. In fact, eatings eggs, in my opinion, would be more difficult. I remember when I was an omnivore how difficult it was to eat eggs e.g. when cracking the egg, the shell fragments would go everywhere and I would need to remove it. Also when frying eggs, there is more cleanup involved as you need to clean the pan etc. So my point is that difficulty depends on what you're used to doing, what your habits are. Being vegan is about developing new habits or rituals.

 

[IndianVegan]

I think you should go vegan as you know it's the right choice. I doubt you will have a relapse of your eating disorder because of it. Knowing that you've reduced animal suffering by even a tiny amount will ease your mind.

As for your daughter, don't tell her to go vegan. If she asks you why you've gone vegan, tell her the truth about where eggs and milk come from. I'm sure she will look up to you as a role model and one day go vegan of her own volition.