UK Scottish independence

[Second Summer]

An independent Scotland. Think about it. Would it work? Why or why not? I was just browsing through an edition of The Economist in which they argued that financially, in the short term, Scotland wouldn't be any worse off as an independent nation, but in the longer term they were doomed because the oil would dry up etc.

(A referendum over the issue is planned for 18 September 2014.)

 

[Amy SF]

I have a question. Let's say Scotland votes to break away from the UK and become independent, but several (or perhaps more than several) years down the line, they realize that they screwed up, made a mistake, and it's better to be part of the UK. Do they have the option of rejoining the UK at that point, or will the UK just say, "Sorry, you wanted independence, you got it. You go your own way. You made your bed, now lie in it."

 

[ledboots]

I looked up some stuff after seeing this thread and am now more confused.

Is "sterling" the same as an English pound? Does Scotland use euros or just sterling? It seems as if some people think independence should include currency as well.

I was surprised to see that it appears that a majority of Scottish citizens would rather keep the status quo.

 

[mlp]

I was surprised to see that it appears that a majority of Scottish citizens would rather keep the status quo.

I think they recognize that it's economically safer.

For myself, I think that any part of any country that wants to secede should be allowed to.

 

[Clueless Git]

For myself, I think that any part of any country that wants to secede should be allowed to.

I had to give up the struggle for independence of my little part of this country when the local council imposed border controls at my garden gate.

 

[Clueless Git]

Scotland wouldn't be any worse off as an independent nation, but in the longer term they were doomed because the oil would dry up etc.

My associate, Glaswegian Alex, is quite clear that for only for as long as oil lasts could Scotland possibly manage to pay its own social security bill.

Alex is as mad as a fish, mind. His 'policies' include making the unemployed eat their own children, and compared to some of Alex's other ideas that one is actualy quite mild.

 

[lucky_charm]

My dad wants independence and he has said he might join the SNP and campaign for it. I'm not sure what my mum thinks. I doubt I will vote for it- I am extremely angered by many of the policies of the "coalition" (pretty much the conservative government) but i don't think the solution is to be entirely separate from the UK. There is a strong nationalist spirit in Scotland but I think it is very, very unlikely that the majority will vote for independence. It is not even a very commonly discussed topic, although that may change over the next 18 months.

 

[yally]

It would make me sad, I love Scotland

I think they're doing pretty well out of their devolved powers, not sure that total independence would do them any good. But if that's what they want...!

 

[Blobbenstein]

so many people come and go across the border, I think it would make sense for them to keep using the pound. Not sure that would be legally possible though.

 

[Second Summer]

so many people come and go across the border, I think it would make sense for them to keep using the pound. Not sure that would be legally possible though.

I think it might be legal, or at least that's the impression I got from reading that article in The Economist, but it could be disadvantageous somehow. My understanding of economy is not very good, but I think it has to do with interest rates being regulated by the British based on the needs of the people and market in Britain, not taking into account the needs of the people and market in Scotland.

 

[yally]

Maybe it could work like the Channel Islands who's currencies are directly linked to Sterling? But that's not really independence I suppose...

Similar to crossing boarder between Northern Ireland and Ireland.

 

[Blobbenstein]

Their only other options are to use the Euro, or some other currency, or start up their own currency, which would have their own disadvantages.

 

[SummerRain]

I want Scotland to stay with the UK because they shift the vote to the left

I don't know enough about economics to know really though. I'd like to understand more about how the money is distributed, and how Scotland manages to not have tuition fees and council tax (and prescription charges?) and England does. Could England afford to have the same, and we just spend the money elsewhere? Or could we not? If not, why not? So many questions, don't know any economists to ask!

 

[lucky_charm]

I want Scotland to stay with the UK because they shift the vote to the left

I don't know enough about economics to know really though. I'd like to understand more about how the money is distributed, and how Scotland manages to not have tuition fees and council tax (and prescription charges?) and England does. Could England afford to have the same, and we just spend the money elsewhere? Or could we not? If not, why not? So many questions, don't know any economists to ask!

I think Scotland are a bit fed up of the fact that most of us vote left and we can still end up with someone like David Cameron as Prime Minister! I still think it's not enough for the independence vote to be a yes though.

We definitely have council tax! My bank balance is very aware of this fact every month. I think we manage not to have tuition fees just by being a smaller country with less students and less universities, but I'm not sure. Like most things, it would probably be possible to do it in England but the money to fund it would have to come from somewhere else. Even here we have come very, very close to having tuition fees in the past. While we don't have such fees, we also can't get anything like the living allowance student loans available in England- when I was at uni the maximum loan for the full year was about £500 if you lived at home with parents and about £800 if you lived away. Of course free education is far, far better than funding your education by getting in debt.

 

[SummerRain]

Oh, I swear I saw something on the news saying Scotland doesn't have council tax, because there was a road where one side paid and one side didn't... it must have been something else !

 

[SummerRain]

While we don't have such fees, we also can't get anything like the living allowance student loans available in England- when I was at uni the maximum loan for the full year was about £500 if you lived at home with parents and about £800 if you lived away. Of course free education is far, far better than funding your education by getting in debt.

I was thinking about this when I was cleaning the kitchen... I'm not sure it is y'know.

The English loan is enough to live off of, without working part time or help from your parents. I think an £800 loan and free tuition fees would be more of a barrier to people without parental support than debt, which, although nobody wants to be in debt, is only paid after a certain amount of earning and only in a small %age of your earnings.

I mean, in terms of cash, it's obviously cheaper not to pay fees. But in terms of people from low-income families affording to go to university, I think having to support yourself financially would be a bigger barrier to going to university than having to, one day, pay the fees back when they're earning.

Bit off topic, but hmm.

 

[Second Summer]

For the first time, there is a poll that shows the 'yes' vote is ahead. I must admit I enjoy watching how this makes Cameron & the political establishment sweaty and uncomfortable.

Those fighting to keep the 300-year-old union, who include Prime Minister David Cameron, are now expected to announce key concessions in a bid to fight back.
[...]
In response to the narrowing polls, the "No" campaign is reportedly set to announce measures to devolve more powers to Scotland.

The Observer newspaper reported that an announcement was expected within days on plans to let Scots decide on a federalised future for their country after intensive cross-party talks.

Scottish independence campaign ahead in poll for first time - Yahoo News

 

[Clueless Git]

If the Scots vote NO then I think the rest of Britain should be allowed a vote to see if we actualy want to keep them.

Quite honestly I'm fed up with being held personaly responsible for Bannockburn, or whatever it is the caber tossing haggis munchers have been throwing a 300 year long hissy fit about.

 

[Blobbenstein]

I think Cameron should offer them another referendum. So they can see what devolved powers they get, if they vote no, and if they don't like it they can have another crack at the whip...if some of the more undecided people know they can put off making a decision, then they may put off voting, or vote 'no'.

I don't fancy losing all those Labour MPs in parliament. That will just mean that Labour has to move to the right to get some of the middle ground voters.

It gets on my nerves when some of the Scottish people say 'we didn't vote for the Tories, but we get a Tory government' we I have never voted Tory, and I, and many others in England have to put up with a Tory government, as well.

 

[Blobbenstein]

I find it amusing when people say that the 'No' campaign is too negative.

'Say YES to NO'?