Why men are afraid of plant based meat

[Lou]

I'm proud to be a Soy Boy.

But now they are blaming plant based meat.

 

[ewomack]

Edward Bernays knew that the truth didn't really matter, it's the perception of the truth, which plays into people's expectations, beliefs, and biases, that really matters. He helped make smoking socially acceptable for women in the 1920s. He helped make "a big breakfast, preferably with bacon and eggs" a modern day standard, and he was able to get doctors to go on record affirming it. He's arguably one of the most influential people of the 20th century, but he remains largely unknown. His uncle was, of all people, Sigmund Freud. We still live in Bernay's shadow and the concept of "man boobs" sounds like something right out of his tool chest: "So you want to stop the movement towards people eating less meat? Just tell men that eating more soy will turn them into women." The same anxiety underlying this myth very likely underlies the homosexual and trans myths that acceptance of such things will also "turn men into women." It's a powerful underlying fear for many men. As a man myself, I can attest that many male upbringings become infused with phrases such as "that's for girls," or "only sissies do that," and "sissies," of course, often equate to women or to men who don't live up to "manliness" and so swerve more towards the "feminine" side of the spectrum. For some men, no greater shame exists. So this "it will turn you into women" idea both ignites men's fears of male inadequacy and their fears of becoming less manly all at once. It's a psychological two-fer. In its own way, it's brilliant marketing, because it likely has the effect of overpowering more sober and less masculinity-threatening medical data. Again, truth has a hard time overpowering deeply-seated anxieties. It's very hard to get an idea out of someone's head once they believe it, especially if they really want to believe it. If you don't know about Edward Bernays, it's more than worth the trouble to learn more. He died in the 1990s, but he worked for numerous presidents and corporations as a "PR man." You very likely are, at least partially, what you are because of the largely unseen influence of people like him.

 

[Lou]

Hmm.
You know its been so long since I researched the whole soy milk /moobs strory and I don't really want to re-research it now, but I bet at least some of it was a dairy milk council mis-information campaign. I'm almost sure that Weston A. Pierce had some connections to Big Food.

This new plant based burgers cause moobs could all be propaganda from the beef industry.

 

[beforewisdom]

"Why men are afraid of plant based meat"

1. A 50 pound sack of seitan flour fell on my friend's head an instantly killed him. He was a man.
2. Gluten intolerance.
3. Lack of vitamins, minerals, micronutrients found in unprocessed vegan foods.

 

[VeganRachel]

Thank you for sharing. First of all, eating cows is linked wth masculinity, virility, testosterone md strength. Boys
grow up being taught this and believe it as they mature. The WORST thing you can call a male is "a girl", because
it is linked with weakness, fragility, vulnerability and so on. Therefore, anything not manly is female and feminine.
Yet, studies show that vegan men have higher T levels than flesh and blood eating males do. Is killing gentle,
defenseless, helpless animals, manly?. No. Does Nimai Delgado look strong, powerful, and healthy? YES. Yet he has
never eaten any flesh and blood in his life and HE eats soy. You can be manly and also be vegan and compassionate.
Not eating animals is compassion, and compassion is missing from today's world. MEN should be protectors,
not predators and killers. See link below.
The term "soy boy" is an example of male dominance versus males who consume soy. What 99% of American males
do not know is that 98% of farm animals ARE FED TONS OF SOY (and corn). Once a lie is believed, such as about soy.
humans refuse to then acknowldge the truth
Dairy, meant for calves, is very high in estrogens. I have met guys who LOVE their milk and cheese. Chicken is very
high in Phthalates, highly estrogenic. Males consume mostly female animals and eggs/dairy from female animals,
complete with estrogens. Where does all the moobs, male boobs. gynecomastia come from? estrogens. I have seen
some males, not obese, who have larger breasts than I do (that are not pecs).
Do I believe all soy is healthy? Should humans live on soy?, no. GMO soy screws up the estrogen content and effects.
I believe it is deliberately engineered to boost the effects of estrogens in the animals, and in the human body. Fermented
organic soy is best too consume (temeph, miso, natto). Soy IS one of the most known allergens, and some are allergic to it.
Are vegan processed non-organic soy foods healthy? I do not eat them, but if you do that is your choice. I do not consume
any 'vegan" foods that bleed, taste or smell like dead animals. I have had tofurky's and they taste like rubber to me. More
omnivores are consuming more plant foods than vegans are, because they are afraid of saturated fats, heart attacks, cancers,
diabetes, e.d., and other omnivore diseases.
Soy has phystoestrogen, plant like estrogens that are BETA. Soy has been studies and found to prevent breat and prostate cancer.
Soy (organic?) actually LOWERS estrogen levels in the human body. Animal estrogens however are destined to promote GROWTH,
stimulating, and are ALPHA estrogenic. But those who are afraid of soy conveniently never mention the animal hormones they eat.
Once again, males seem terribly afraid of doing anything related to females and feminine, even though vegetables are healthy. Peace.
Nimai Delgado, an admirable vegan male...https://veganliftz.com/nimai-delgado-vegan-bodybuilder/

 

[VeganRachel]

Hmm.
You know its been so long since I researched the whole soy milk /moobs strory and I don't really want to re-research it now, but I bet at least some of it was a dairy milk council mis-information campaign. I'm almost sure that Weston A. Pierce had some connections to Big Food.

This new plant based burgers cause moobs could all be propaganda from the beef industry.

ITS' ALL ABOUT THE SOY 'ESTROGENS'. Yet, they eat milk/dairy, eggs, anc chickens, etcetera

 

[VeganRachel]

Edward Bernays knew that the truth didn't really matter, it's the perception of the truth, which plays into people's expectations, beliefs, and biases, that really matters. He helped make smoking socially acceptable for women in the 1920s. He helped make "a big breakfast, preferably with bacon and eggs" a modern day standard, and he was able to get doctors to go on record affirming it. He's arguably one of the most influential people of the 20th century, but he remains largely unknown. His uncle was, of all people, Sigmund Freud. We still live in Bernay's shadow and the concept of "man boobs" sounds like something right out of his tool chest: "So you want to stop the movement towards people eating less meat? Just tell men that eating more soy will turn them into women." The same anxiety underlying this myth very likely underlies the homosexual and trans myths that acceptance of such things will also "turn men into women." It's a powerful underlying fear for many men. As a man myself, I can attest that many male upbringings become infused with phrases such as "that's for girls," or "only sissies do that," and "sissies," of course, often equate to women or to men who don't live up to "manliness" and so swerve more towards the "feminine" side of the spectrum. For some men, no greater shame exists. So this "it will turn you into women" idea both ignites men's fears of male inadequacy and their fears of becoming less manly all at once. It's a psychological two-fer. In its own way, it's brilliant marketing, because it likely has the effect of overpowering more sober and less masculinity-threatening medical data. Again, truth has a hard time overpowering deeply-seated anxieties. It's very hard to get an idea out of someone's head once they believe it, especially if they really want to believe it. If you don't know about Edward Bernays, it's more than worth the trouble to learn more. He died in the 1990s, but he worked for numerous presidents and corporations as a "PR man." You very likely are, at least partially, what you are because of the largely unseen influence of people like him.

Good points!, males biggest fear IS BEING SEEN AS WEAK, "beef" buys into that fear and reinforces male superiority and dominance

 

[Lou]

ITS' ALL ABOUT THE SOY 'ESTROGENS'. Yet, they eat milk/dairy, eggs, anc chickens, etcetera

Do those things have "estrogens"? Well, maybe with all the hormones they give cows and chickens.

 

[VeganRachel]

I'm proud to be a Soy Boy.

But now they are blaming plant based meat.

You are more than a "soy boy" you are a role model as a compassionate male.
Men should be protectors, not cruel killers of gentle defenseless animals.
Thank you for making the world a more peaceful place. I love vegan men.

 

[VeganRachel]

Do those things have "estrogens"? Well, maybe with all the hormones they give cows and chickens.

Dr. Greger said that when dairy is produced by cows, the estrogens in it are up to 30x the normal estrogen level in cows.
Chicken contains Phthalates which are highly estrogenic. ALL animals have hormones in them, whether "natural"
or steroidal. The main purpose of hormones is to stimulate growth...

 

[VeganRachel]

Edward Bernays knew that the truth didn't really matter, it's the perception of the truth, which plays into people's expectations, beliefs, and biases, that really matters. He helped make smoking socially acceptable for women in the 1920s. He helped make "a big breakfast, preferably with bacon and eggs" a modern day standard, and he was able to get doctors to go on record affirming it. He's arguably one of the most influential people of the 20th century, but he remains largely unknown. His uncle was, of all people, Sigmund Freud. We still live in Bernay's shadow and the concept of "man boobs" sounds like something right out of his tool chest: "So you want to stop the movement towards people eating less meat? Just tell men that eating more soy will turn them into women." The same anxiety underlying this myth very likely underlies the homosexual and trans myths that acceptance of such things will also "turn men into women." It's a powerful underlying fear for many men. As a man myself, I can attest that many male upbringings become infused with phrases such as "that's for girls," or "only sissies do that," and "sissies," of course, often equate to women or to men who don't live up to "manliness" and so swerve more towards the "feminine" side of the spectrum. For some men, no greater shame exists. So this "it will turn you into women" idea both ignites men's fears of male inadequacy and their fears of becoming less manly all at once. It's a psychological two-fer. In its own way, it's brilliant marketing, because it likely has the effect of overpowering more sober and less masculinity-threatening medical data. Again, truth has a hard time overpowering deeply-seated anxieties. It's very hard to get an idea out of someone's head once they believe it, especially if they really want to believe it. If you don't know about Edward Bernays, it's more than worth the trouble to learn more. He died in the 1990s, but he worked for numerous presidents and corporations as a "PR man." You very likely are, at least partially, what you are because of the largely unseen influence of people like him.

Just curious, what are the main reasons stopping you from being vegan?

 

[ewomack]

Just curious, what are the main reasons stopping you from being vegan?

This is a question from vegans that I always dread to answer. It has come to feel like a trap. In my experience, I've found that there is no good answer to this question when a vegan asks it. My answers have usually led to unwanted advice, shaming, or worse. Past responses to my answers, rather than focusing on the 99% of my life that I spend not eating meat, usually focus on the 1% of the time that I do eat some meat, often very little of it. Regardless of all of the absolutely rotten experiences I've had with this question, I will answer anyway.

A number of times a year I find myself in social or family situations where not eating meat that someone has made or provided would lead to awkwardness that I would prefer to avoid. These situations involve family or friends who I care about and I don't want to harm or weaken these relationships because of a serving or two of meat. I'm trying to find a balance between maintaining relationships that I want to preserve and not eating animal products. I tilt extremely heavily toward the latter, as I maybe eat meat once every few months, if that. Sometimes I go without eating any meat for months on end. As I've said on this forum before, if everyone ate as much meat as I did, the entire industry would collapse. I eat so little meat that my doctor recently did a double-take at my cholesterol level (i.e, it was almost perfect).

I've never cooked meat, never had any meat in my refrigerator or freezer and I have some serious philosophical and ethical concerns about its consumption. But, if others make it for me who don't fully understand my position, I have chosen to just eat it rather than get embroiled in a debate. Some might say then that these people aren't "true friends," so why should I bother with them? They are true friends, trust me. They are good people. They are products of a society that hasn't fully comprehended how we treat animals carelessly. I have compassion for them for that reason. They don't eat meat because they're bad people, they just don't have that point of view or framework. A lot of people, arguably most people, don't. Should I try to teach them? I could, but I guarantee they wouldn't understand and the situation would just become uncomfortable. I have, I believe, encouraged some of them to "cut down" for health reasons. They understand that. Once I return home, I go right back to a non-meat lifestyle, usually for weeks or months.

I no longer have any guilt over this decision. I no longer have any motivation to become a vegan. This lifestyle works for me. In the past. when I tried to become a vegan and told people this openly, someone would always come up with some way I was failing or not going far enough. Then they would accuse me of not living up to the word. The criticisms differed wildly from vegan to vegan. I stopped caring whether I was one or not and found a balance that works for me. I highly doubt that I will try again. But, I remain dedicated to a very, very low meat diet. I have not returned to my old lifestyle, the one I was raised on, of eating meat three times a day. I highly doubt that I ever will (not willingly, at least). So, I no longer tell people that I'm "99% vegan" because that offends many vegans. I've decided to avoid the word and the topic altogether. I come to this forum because, despite everything, I identify with many aspects of vegan lifestyles. But I've also accepted that "the movement" will never accept me because I still eat meat once in a great, great, great while. We have to accept the consequences of our decisions. I have.

 

[silva]

This is a question from vegans that I always dread to answer. It has come to feel like a trap. In my experience, I've found that there is no good answer to this question when a vegan asks it. My answers have usually lead to unwanted advice, shaming, or worse. Past responses to my answers, rather than focusing on the 99% of my life that I spend not eating meat, usually focus on the 1% of the time that I do eat some meat, often very little of it. Regardless of all of the absolutely rotten experiences I've had with this question, I will answer anyway.

A number of times a year I find myself in social or family situations where not eating meat that someone has made or provided would lead to awkwardness that I would prefer to avoid. These situations involve family or friends who I care about and I don't want to harm or weaken these relationships because of a serving or two of meat. I'm trying to find a balance between maintaining relationships that I want to preserve and not eating animal products. I tilt extremely heavily toward the latter, as I maybe eat meat once every few months, if that. Sometimes I go without eating any meat for months on end. As I've said on this forum before, if everyone ate as much meat as I did, the entire industry would collapse. I eat so little meat that my doctor recently did a double-take at my cholesterol level (i.e, it was almost perfect).

I've never cooked meat, never had any meat in my refrigerator or freezer and I have some serious philosophical and ethical concerns about its consumption. But, if others make it for me who don't fully understand my position, I have chosen to just eat it rather than get embroiled in a debate. Some might say then that these people aren't "true friends," so why should I bother with them? They are true friends, trust me. They are good people. They are products of a society that hasn't fully comprehended how we treat animals carelessly. I have compassion for them for that reason. They don't eat meat because they're bad people, they just don't have that point of view or framework. A lot of people, arguably most people, don't. Should I try to teach them? I could, but I guarantee they wouldn't understand and the situation would just become uncomfortable. I have, I believe, encouraged some of them to "cut down" for health reasons. They understand that. Once I return home, I go right back to a non-meat lifestyle, usually for weeks or months.

I no longer have any guilt over this decision. I no longer have any motivation to become a vegan. This lifestyle works for me. In the past. when I tried to become a vegan and told people this openly, someone would always come up with some way I was failing or not going far enough. Then they would accuse me of not living up to the word. The criticisms differed wildly from vegan to vegan. I stopped caring whether I was one or not and found a balance that works for me. I highly doubt that I will try again. But, I remain dedicated to a very, very low meat diet. I have not returned to my old lifestyle, the one I was raised on, of eating meat three times a day. I highly doubt that I ever will (not willingly, at least). So, I no longer tell people that I'm "99% vegan" because that offends many vegans. I've decided to avoid the word and the topic altogether. I come to this forum because, despite everything, I identify with many aspects of vegan lifestyles. But I've also accepted that "the movement" will never accept me because I still eat meat once in a great, great, great while. We have to accept the consequences of our decisions. I have.

I get you, and I wish people "vegan for the animals" would be willing to accept that all or nothing isn't helping their cause!
Many people don't go veg because they're afraid of the commitment. There are sooooo many ethical causes to feel for that just doing our best, and accepting that other peoples perspectives of needs are different, but also important.
I often think the emotional side of vegans work against them

reminds me of an old thread on another forum where someone asked for advice for their partner who often had business lunches and not always able to eat completely vegan. Sooo many people just ripped into this saying he should just not eat, or make his ethics known. I remember it well because it was a turning point in my own attitude.
Don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good is truly something to take to heart, you can catch more flies with honey !

 

[VeganRachel]

This is a question from vegans that I always dread to answer. It has come to feel like a trap. In my experience, I've found that there is no good answer to this question when a vegan asks it. My answers have usually led to unwanted advice, shaming, or worse. Past responses to my answers, rather than focusing on the 99% of my life that I spend not eating meat, usually focus on the 1% of the time that I do eat some meat, often very little of it. Regardless of all of the absolutely rotten experiences I've had with this question, I will answer anyway.

A number of times a year I find myself in social or family situations where not eating meat that someone has made or provided would lead to awkwardness that I would prefer to avoid. These situations involve family or friends who I care about and I don't want to harm or weaken these relationships because of a serving or two of meat. I'm trying to find a balance between maintaining relationships that I want to preserve and not eating animal products. I tilt extremely heavily toward the latter, as I maybe eat meat once every few months, if that. Sometimes I go without eating any meat for months on end. As I've said on this forum before, if everyone ate as much meat as I did, the entire industry would collapse. I eat so little meat that my doctor recently did a double-take at my cholesterol level (i.e, it was almost perfect).

I've never cooked meat, never had any meat in my refrigerator or freezer and I have some serious philosophical and ethical concerns about its consumption. But, if others make it for me who don't fully understand my position, I have chosen to just eat it rather than get embroiled in a debate. Some might say then that these people aren't "true friends," so why should I bother with them? They are true friends, trust me. They are good people. They are products of a society that hasn't fully comprehended how we treat animals carelessly. I have compassion for them for that reason. They don't eat meat because they're bad people, they just don't have that point of view or framework. A lot of people, arguably most people, don't. Should I try to teach them? I could, but I guarantee they wouldn't understand and the situation would just become uncomfortable. I have, I believe, encouraged some of them to "cut down" for health reasons. They understand that. Once I return home, I go right back to a non-meat lifestyle, usually for weeks or months.

I no longer have any guilt over this decision. I no longer have any motivation to become a vegan. This lifestyle works for me. In the past. when I tried to become a vegan and told people this openly, someone would always come up with some way I was failing or not going far enough. Then they would accuse me of not living up to the word. The criticisms differed wildly from vegan to vegan. I stopped caring whether I was one or not and found a balance that works for me. I highly doubt that I will try again. But, I remain dedicated to a very, very low meat diet. I have not returned to my old lifestyle, the one I was raised on, of eating meat three times a day. I highly doubt that I ever will (not willingly, at least). So, I no longer tell people that I'm "99% vegan" because that offends many vegans. I've decided to avoid the word and the topic altogether. I come to this forum because, despite everything, I identify with many aspects of vegan lifestyles. But I've also accepted that "the movement" will never accept me because I still eat meat once in a great, great, great while. We have to accept the consequences of our decisions. I have.

Thank you for sharing. You have the right to make your own decisions, and I applaud you for being in this forum and
consuming less animal than you used to. That is positive. Some humans instead dig their heels in.
Many of us have been around others and wanted to not offend. Society considers it normal to eat animals as well
as to conform. However, I have been vegan for many years and it fits me. Cheers.

 

[VeganRachel]

I get you, and I wish people "vegan for the animals" would be willing to accept that all or nothing isn't helping their cause!
Many people don't go veg because they're afraid of the commitment. There are sooooo many ethical causes to feel for that just doing our best, and accepting that other peoples perspectives of needs are different, but also important.
I often think the emotional side of vegans work against them

reminds me of an old thread on another forum where someone asked for advice for their partner who often had business lunches and not always able to eat completely vegan. Sooo many people just ripped into this saying he should just not eat, or make his ethics known. I remember it well because it was a turning point in my own attitude.
Don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good is truly something to take to heart, you can catch more flies with honey !

I became a gradual vegan over a 2 year period. I gave up red meat to start. I did it for health reasons, only later was it for the animals. If I had known then what I know now, I would have done it much sooner. However, change is a challenge for humans. To expect many to do it overnight is unrealistic. I believe the best sucess is to have 10 million humans consciously reduce their animal consumption, versus 1 million new "vegans". Gradual is best for most humans.

 

[Lou]

Two years seems reasonable. Heck if you count the time that I was transitioning it took me 10 or so.

If I was doing to recommend a transition strategy I would suggest like 3 or 4 months for everything that you purchase. I always felt throwing stuff away doesn't help anyone. So just use up the non-vegan stuff and then just replace it with vegan stuff.

But yeah, if you have to choose, 10 Flexatrians is better than just one vegan.

 

[poivron]

This is a question from vegans that I always dread to answer. It has come to feel like a trap. In my experience, I've found that there is no good answer to this question when a vegan asks it. My answers have usually led to unwanted advice, shaming, or worse. Past responses to my answers, rather than focusing on the 99% of my life that I spend not eating meat, usually focus on the 1% of the time that I do eat some meat, often very little of it. Regardless of all of the absolutely rotten experiences I've had with this question, I will answer anyway.

A number of times a year I find myself in social or family situations where not eating meat that someone has made or provided would lead to awkwardness that I would prefer to avoid. These situations involve family or friends who I care about and I don't want to harm or weaken these relationships because of a serving or two of meat. I'm trying to find a balance between maintaining relationships that I want to preserve and not eating animal products. I tilt extremely heavily toward the latter, as I maybe eat meat once every few months, if that. Sometimes I go without eating any meat for months on end. As I've said on this forum before, if everyone ate as much meat as I did, the entire industry would collapse. I eat so little meat that my doctor recently did a double-take at my cholesterol level (i.e, it was almost perfect).

I've never cooked meat, never had any meat in my refrigerator or freezer and I have some serious philosophical and ethical concerns about its consumption. But, if others make it for me who don't fully understand my position, I have chosen to just eat it rather than get embroiled in a debate. Some might say then that these people aren't "true friends," so why should I bother with them? They are true friends, trust me. They are good people. They are products of a society that hasn't fully comprehended how we treat animals carelessly. I have compassion for them for that reason. They don't eat meat because they're bad people, they just don't have that point of view or framework. A lot of people, arguably most people, don't. Should I try to teach them? I could, but I guarantee they wouldn't understand and the situation would just become uncomfortable. I have, I believe, encouraged some of them to "cut down" for health reasons. They understand that. Once I return home, I go right back to a non-meat lifestyle, usually for weeks or months.

I no longer have any guilt over this decision. I no longer have any motivation to become a vegan. This lifestyle works for me. In the past. when I tried to become a vegan and told people this openly, someone would always come up with some way I was failing or not going far enough. Then they would accuse me of not living up to the word. The criticisms differed wildly from vegan to vegan. I stopped caring whether I was one or not and found a balance that works for me. I highly doubt that I will try again. But, I remain dedicated to a very, very low meat diet. I have not returned to my old lifestyle, the one I was raised on, of eating meat three times a day. I highly doubt that I ever will (not willingly, at least). So, I no longer tell people that I'm "99% vegan" because that offends many vegans. I've decided to avoid the word and the topic altogether. I come to this forum because, despite everything, I identify with many aspects of vegan lifestyles. But I've also accepted that "the movement" will never accept me because I still eat meat once in a great, great, great while. We have to accept the consequences of our decisions. I have.

It seems to me that you're giving a lot of weight to the words of a very small percentage of vegans. (For one thing, if the vegans who criticized you were doing so online, then you are really focusing on a tiny group of vegans -- ones who have so much pent-up anger that they spend large amounts of time online, attacking other vegans, or people trying to be vegan, for not being vegan enough. Such people are not representative of the overall community of vegans, which is mostly made up of people who have better things to do with their time than waste it in pointless arguments online.)

The thing about vegans who criticize other vegans is that many of them don't even stay vegan for long. They have such unreasonably high expectations of others that they can't meet those expectations themselves and eventually, inevitably, give up. The worst part of it is that during the relatively short time that they're vegan, they turn off other people like you from following their natural, imperfect, and halting journey toward veganism.

If you haven't done so already, I would strongly suggest looking for a real-life vegan community. If you can find a social group of vegans who meet in real life (a group of vegans who socialize together -- not a group of activists, since activism is often traumatising and very stressful), especially if the group includes some long-time vegans (i.e., people who have been vegan for at least 10, or better yet, 20, 30, or 40 years), you will meet with a very different reception. People will not attack you for being flexitarian but will recognize this as a step along your journey, since most of us don't stay in the same place forever. You will find that vegans in real life are some of the kindest, most sensitive, and most considerate people, much easier to be around, in fact, than non-vegans. I would really make an effort to stay away from vegan discussions online. That includes even this forum, as friendly as it seems on the surface.