Sacrificing my diet for work?

[forester]

I work for the U.S. Forest Service in an unrelated position that doesn't deal with wildfire, but I will have the opportunity to help fight wildfires that are likely to happen (they have started already) in the near future. One requirement is that I must be open to a two week commitment. Essentially, this means you could possibly be away from civilization for two weeks either camping somewhere with a small crew or camping with a whole division on a large fire.

In both cases, food is being shuttled to you and prepared in mass. They have "regular" meals and vegetarian meals. They do not have meals specifically prepared for vegans and I've talked to a few wildland firefighters and they tell me sticking to that kind of diet is not possible fighting fire. You may be able to provide for yourself for a couple days, but after that you will have to sacrifice your diet to get enough calories to do your job, protect your crew, and yourself on a fire.

The job experience would be nice. I think I would enjoy the actual work. And, the experience would make me more valuable as a employee.

I really, really don't want to sacrifice my diet/ethics that I've had for the past eight years (even temporarily) if I don't have too. Veganism is something very important for me, but so is investing in my career.

I'm feeling very conflicted at the moment. I want to continue to uphold my principles, but doing a job that has a noble cause and improving myself in my career path is very tempting. I guess I'm just looking for other people's opinions on the matter.

 

[Hog]

Fighting forest fires is a hot, dirty, and dangerous job. You will not be staying a fancy hotel. You will live under harsh conditions. But, you already knew that.

You must have food to keep your energy up and stay safe. Putting out wildfires saves the lives of wild animals. For the sake of the wild animals, you will need to eat somethings that your regularly would not. Plus, a live vegan is better than a dead vegan.

 

[TofuRobot]

I would bring in my own food. Canned beans, and pre-made rice. I presume they will have some kind of way to store the rest of the food that they're feeding to everyone else, right? Just take in some food and tell them to stick it in the fridge/cooler for you. Maybe pre-cooked potatoes or something. I'd be willing to live of potatoes for a week for a good cause. Would that be impossible? Tell them you're allergic to dairy. Would they force you to eat something you're allergic to?

 

[forester]

Fighting forest fires is a hot, dirty, and dangerous job. You will not be staying a fancy hotel. You will live under harsh conditions. But, you already knew that.

You must have food to keep your energy up and stay safe. Putting out wildfires saves the lives of wild animals. For the sake of the wild animals, you will need to eat somethings that your regularly would not. Plus, a live vegan is better than a dead vegan.

If I don't do this work someone else will so wild animals will be saved or not saved regardless of my decision. Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[forester]

I would bring in my own food. Canned beans, and pre-made rice. I presume they will have some kind of way to store the rest of the food that they're feeding to everyone else, right? Just take in some food and tell them to stick it in the fridge/cooler for you. Maybe pre-cooked potatoes or something. I'd be willing to live of potatoes for a week for a good cause. Would that be impossible? Tell them you're allergic to dairy. Would they force you to eat something you're allergic to?

In the instance where I will be camping with my crew, there is very little room in the engine truck for food. In the instance where I'm at a big camp, there is also no room because they hire a third party catering company and the company doesn't allow you to use their equipment for your own personal items.

If you are allergic to dairy I don't think they would even let you fight fires for more than a day to be honest. They wouldn't force you, but you would have to eat A LOT of other things to get calories, mostly meat. If you couldn't do that then your performance would eventually degrade and the boss would let you go because you aren't pulling your weight.

 

[Lou]

Its been a long time since I was on a fire line. And back then I wasn't vegan. But i don't think you would have that much trouble

I remember a lot of PB&J sandwiches. (I also remember a lot of bologna and Velveeta sandwiches. )

I remember very few MREs but I think that is one of the things that might have changed. If it is a campaign fire, after the first day or two you will end up working shifts. Breakfast and dinner at HQ and a paper sack that you can pack yourself for lunch. A lot of firework is at night so your breakfast is your dinner and vice-versa

If it is not a campaign fire they probably won't send you. Unless like what happened to me once. My crew was on the highway on our way home when we passed a fire that had started on the side of the road. That one was f-ing awful. Anyway, if it's not a campaign fire you will probably get home in just a few days (at most).

When we came off the fire line they had BBQed steaks. but they also had lots of other choices. I would be surprised if they didn't have potatoes, beans, and salads to go with the steaks. At breakfast, there were lots of eggs and sausages but there was also a lot of bread and potatoes.

You will have what we used to call a Go-Bag. Canteens, clothing. and stuff. It's heavy and you will have to carry it for a distance but you will not have to carry it all day long. I generally had something like 2 pounds of granola in mine. But be sure to put your food in something animal-proof.

And don't stress about eating non-vegan food for a while. You haven't been vegan all your life? You'll just have to subtract your time on fire duty from the time you've been vegan. Remember the definition. "practical and possible".

Also, keep in mind this. Every acre your crew stops from burning is hundreds if not thousands of animal lives saved. You will probably do more good in one week than you did the previous year with your diet.

Another issue you might have to face is boots. You will probably learn about this in fire school but you might try and find some vegan boots that you can wear on a fire line. There is a real safety issue with synthetic materials. They melt. (leather doesn't). Like I said its been a long time since I was on a fire line, but check out the google machine. There may be some Nomex boots you can buy. Also make sure your boots contain no metal. No steel toes. No steel shanks. and no metal eyelets. And keep in mind that not only will you be walking long distances in these but also you will be doing some shoveling. And a lot of times you will be standing on very hot ground. Oh and that reminds me. Gloves too. Back in the day the FS didn't provide gloves but everyone had leather ones. the cloth ones are no good. Oh but if you do buy clothing for the fire line - cotton is best. It doesn't melt. but they will probably give you nomex pants and a shirt.

Not a vegan issue but back in the day you would also have to supply yourself with a work belt (to carry stuff) and maybe even a vest. The vest and the belt will also have to be nomex and without metal. Although maybe not as important as boots and gloves. if its hot enough for a canvas belt or vest to catch fire you really should be running the other way. Get the kind of vest that has a built in pack. you can keep your emergency kit, your first aid kit and your lunch in it. Radios, canteens and stuff can go in the vests pockets or on the belt. Your go-bag should go with you all the time. But when working it usually can be stashed at the end of the line or in the truck or van.

Come to think of it, my vest was made by some little old ladies in Wenatchee. I wonder if they are still there.

 

[forester]

Its been a long time since I was on a fire line. And back then I wasn't vegan. But i don't think you would have that much trouble

I remember a lot of PB&J sandwiches. (I also remember a lot of bologna and Velveeta sandwiches. )

I remember very few MREs but I think that is one of the things that might have changed. If it is a campaign fire, after the first day or two you will end up working shifts. Breakfast and dinner at HQ and a paper sack that you can pack yourself for lunch. A lot of firework is at night so your breakfast is your dinner and vice-versa

If it is not a campaign fire they probably won't send you. Unless like what happened to me once. My crew was on the highway on our way home when we passed a fire that had started on the side of the road. That one was f-ing awful. Anyway, if it's not a campaign fire you will probably get home in just a few days (at most).

When we came off the fire line they had BBQed steaks. but they also had lots of other choices. I would be surprised if they didn't have potatoes, beans, and salads to go with the steaks. At breakfast, there were lots of eggs and sausages but there was also a lot of bread and potatoes.

You will have what we used to call a Go-Bag. Canteens, clothing. and stuff. It's heavy and you will have to carry it for a distance but you will not have to carry it all day long. I generally had something like 2 pounds of granola in mine. But be sure to put your food in something animal-proof.

And don't stress about eating non-vegan food for a while. You haven't been vegan all your life? You'll just have to subtract your time on fire duty from the time you've been vegan. Remember the definition. "practical and possible".

Also, keep in mind this. Every acre your crew stops from burning is hundreds if not thousands of animal lives saved. You will probably do more good in one week than you did the previous year with your diet.

Another issue you might have to face is boots. You will probably learn about this in fire school but you might try and find some vegan boots that you can wear on a fire line. There is a real safety issue with synthetic materials. They melt. (leather doesn't). Like I said its been a long time since I was on a fire line, but check out the google machine. There may be some Nomex boots you can buy. Also make sure your boots contain no metal. No steel toes. No steel shanks. and no metal eyelets. And keep in mind that not only will you be walking long distances in these but also you will be doing some shoveling. And a lot of times you will be standing on very hot ground. Oh and that reminds me. Gloves too. Back in the day the FS didn't provide gloves but everyone had leather ones. the cloth ones are no good. Oh but if you do buy clothing for the fire line - cotton is best. It doesn't melt. but they will probably give you nomex pants and a shirt.

Not a vegan issue but back in the day you would also have to supply yourself with a work belt (to carry stuff) and maybe even a vest. The vest and the belt will also have to be nomex and without metal. Although maybe not as important as boots and gloves. if its hot enough for a canvas belt or vest to catch fire you really should be running the other way. Get the kind of vest that has a built in pack. you can keep your emergency kit, your first aid kit and your lunch in it. Radios, canteens and stuff can go in the vests pockets or on the belt. Your go-bag should go with you all the time. But when working it usually can be stashed at the end of the line or in the truck or van.

Come to think of it, my vest was made by some little old ladies in Wenatchee. I wonder if they are still there.

Thank you for your thoughts. I have gone through guard school and have most of the gear. I would still need little odds and ends to be truly ready for fire, but I'm basically there.

A fire assignment may only last a few days, but I have to commit to two weeks. Spending a week at guard was enough to give me an impression of the food they provide and it wasn't great. If I didn't bring my own food with me, half of the days I would have either not gotten much to eat or suffered with sleep because I'd be in the food line multiple times.

I will continue to weigh the pros and cons. This is difficult for me.

 

[TofuRobot]

You know what is really tragic... is that an animal product filled diet is not even healthy. You would think it would be a top priority. I mean, they even just introduced a bill/passed a law somewhere that would make it law that prisoners have the option to have vegan meals...

Edit: California... Here: https://www.cookinglight.com/news/n...quires-prisons-hospitals-to-serve-vegan-meals

 

[Nekodaiden]

I work for the U.S. Forest Service in an unrelated position that doesn't deal with wildfire, but I will have the opportunity to help fight wildfires that are likely to happen (they have started already) in the near future. One requirement is that I must be open to a two week commitment. Essentially, this means you could possibly be away from civilization for two weeks either camping somewhere with a small crew or camping with a whole division on a large fire.

In both cases, food is being shuttled to you and prepared in mass. They have "regular" meals and vegetarian meals. They do not have meals specifically prepared for vegans and I've talked to a few wildland firefighters and they tell me sticking to that kind of diet is not possible fighting fire. You may be able to provide for yourself for a couple days, but after that you will have to sacrifice your diet to get enough calories to do your job, protect your crew, and yourself on a fire.

The job experience would be nice. I think I would enjoy the actual work. And, the experience would make me more valuable as a employee.

I really, really don't want to sacrifice my diet/ethics that I've had for the past eight years (even temporarily) if I don't have too. Veganism is something very important for me, but so is investing in my career.

I'm feeling very conflicted at the moment. I want to continue to uphold my principles, but doing a job that has a noble cause and improving myself in my career path is very tempting. I guess I'm just looking for other people's opinions on the matter.

In the instance where I will be camping with my crew, there is very little room in the engine truck for food. In the instance where I'm at a big camp, there is also no room because they hire a third party catering company and the company doesn't allow you to use their equipment for your own personal items.

If you are allergic to dairy I don't think they would even let you fight fires for more than a day to be honest. They wouldn't force you, but you would have to eat A LOT of other things to get calories, mostly meat. If you couldn't do that then your performance would eventually degrade and the boss would let you go because you aren't pulling your weight.

Surely the fire department is aware that there are lots of people who are lactose intolerant. And also, surely, there has got to be one admin in the planning department that can both read and do the most cursory investigation in meeting human caloric need without including meat and dairy.

Let's compare calories:

Cheddar Cheese: 403

Peanuts: 318
Flax seeds: 534
Chia seeds: 490
Pecans: 715
Pine Nuts: 673
Walnuts: 654
Almonds: 597
Sunflower Seeds: 592
Cashew Butter: 587
Sesame seeds: 565

Most of these you can get already roasted, and some others just need water and time. Canned beans are already pre-cooked, so there is no need to use any company facilities, whole grain breads are pre-cooked obviously, oats (369 calories/100g) are an option and usually need minimal processing (I often eat mine raw but some people seem to have to cook) - and you could mix in a number of the above for extra calories as well.

Can't you tell them you are a lactose intolerant Vegetarian (you said they provide vegetarian meals), and ask that any of the above be listed in
their standard pantry of food items? I realize using them yourself without prepared in special meals isn't exactly appealing from a culinary
perspective, but the cooks/catering service doesn't need to do anything - just have them available. This isn't any more to ask, as these items
are less expensive, and take no more (often) less room to store, and often aren't in need of any preparation. Unlike their prepared meals and even
just meat (fridge/freezer required, then cooking), milk/cheese (fridge/freezer required).

I'm surprised you seem to agree with the Firefighters that think you'd have a hard time getting calories "on that kind of diet". 8 years is quite
a fair while to be a vegan who seems to be lacking in clues as to where to get extra calories when they are required. No offense intended, but
you've piqued my skepticism with a few of your comments.

 

[Hog]

@Nekodaiden

Please do not take me too seriously. I don't know if I would eat nuts while fighting fires. Once I went vegan, my fiber intake skyrocketed. I now take a dump about three times a day. I would recommend eating potato chips.

 

[Nekodaiden]

@Nekodaiden

Please do not take me too seriously. I don't know if I would eat nuts while fighting fires. Once I went vegan, my fiber intake skyrocketed. I now take a dump about three times a day. I would recommend eating potato chips.

You're new. I wouldn't take anything you say from an advise perspective too seriously, just as I wouldn't have expected vegans with a little more
experience to take what I said too seriously when I was just starting out.

Potato chips are a highly processed food that I don't expect will bring adequate nutrition much less basic satiation if eaten for a sustained period. Nuts and seeds provide an array of minerals, good fats and vitamins, in addition to their overall calorie content.

Increased defecation is common during transition periods. Once your body becomes accustomed to the fiber, the frequency decreases. When I transitioned I sometimes went 6+ times a day for a while, but this lessened over time and now it's 1-2 typically.

 

[forester]

Surely the fire department is aware that there are lots of people who are lactose intolerant. And also, surely, there has got to be one admin in the planning department that can both read and do the most cursory investigation in meeting human caloric need without including meat and dairy.

Let's compare calories:

Cheddar Cheese: 403

Peanuts: 318
Flax seeds: 534
Chia seeds: 490
Pecans: 715
Pine Nuts: 673
Walnuts: 654
Almonds: 597
Sunflower Seeds: 592
Cashew Butter: 587
Sesame seeds: 565

Most of these you can get already roasted, and some others just need water and time. Canned beans are already pre-cooked, so there is no need to use any company facilities, whole grain breads are pre-cooked obviously, oats (369 calories/100g) are an option and usually need minimal processing (I often eat mine raw but some people seem to have to cook) - and you could mix in a number of the above for extra calories as well.

Can't you tell them you are a lactose intolerant Vegetarian (you said they provide vegetarian meals), and ask that any of the above be listed in
their standard pantry of food items? I realize using them yourself without prepared in special meals isn't exactly appealing from a culinary
perspective, but the cooks/catering service doesn't need to do anything - just have them available. This isn't any more to ask, as these items
are less expensive, and take no more (often) less room to store, and often aren't in need of any preparation. Unlike their prepared meals and even
just meat (fridge/freezer required, then cooking), milk/cheese (fridge/freezer required).

I'm surprised you seem to agree with the Firefighters that think you'd have a hard time getting calories "on that kind of diet". 8 years is quite
a fair while to be a vegan who seems to be lacking in clues as to where to get extra calories when they are required. No offense intended, but
you've piqued my skepticism with a few of your comments.

The main food issue for the various government and state wildfire departments is logistics during a large fire. There are not many people who are lactose intolerant that fight wildfires (or at least they don't admit it). I know this because when I was at fire guard school, two people out of about 300 requested food with no dairy; I was one. It took logistics three days to get me food which specifically didn't have dairy.

During a massive wildfire where hundreds of people are coming together on a fire, logistics does not know who has dietary needs and generally provides the food that most people will eat and hires whatever catering companies are available to support the operation. These companies typically mainly provide meat, dairy, eggs, and some small amount of vegetables. This is what seasoned wildland firefighters have told me. When you are far away from civilization for weeks at a time, you take what food you can get so you can do your job and be safe is basically how it goes.

I understand that nuts have lots of calories. The problem is not, knowing what I should eat, but rather, getting access to foods I want to eat.

I do not have sway over an entire government department as to force them to buy certain foods for me and maybe a couple other people.

It is not surprising why I would trust the opinions of people who have 10+ years of experience fighting wildfire about a question related to fighting wildfire and getting food.


Thank you for your opinions. Even if some of them were unnecessarily condescending.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

Hi Forester, the firefighters that think you need meat or dairy to fight fires, to have enough energy, they are wrong. And I am 99% sure. There are vegan bodybuilders and Scott Jurek won the biggest ultramarathon about 5 years in a row as a vegan and Novak Djokovic won all four tennis grand slams in a row when he ate a vegan diet (he was not a strict vegan) and there are so many other examples.

Ask for the vegetarian meals to be as vegan as possible and take your own food to supplement. That is my advice but it's difficult situation and it's up to you what you do so I think you could argue it either way.

Good for you for wanting to do a job that is contributing to society in a positive way.

 

[TofuRobot]

Just jumping in here to say that pooping 3x/day is a good thing! "Perfect!," as Alicia Silverstone says on the Dr. Oz show @ 4:58 (I love her in this clip -- Note I do NOT watch the Dr. Oz show, just saw this clip as it came through the interwebs a long time ago):

Love the ^5 at the end ?

 

[Forest Nymph]

Eeew. Bologna and Velveeta sounds terrible, and not just because it's animal products.

So I went to back to college originally thinking I wanted to work for an organization like the NPS or USFS, then realized how ridiculous and unhelpful and bureaucratic those organizations can be. "Environmentalists" who eat meat, grazing permits, and well, you know. I did end up getting my Enviro Sci degree but I'm going to grad school to do a project on plant based diets for environmental reasons instead.

You could be a vegetarian temporarily if this job means that much to you. Or you could apply for a different job with the Forest Service, one where you won't have to share group food like this. Ultimately it's your choice.

 

[FredVegrox]

I agree with responses saying it is your choice. You go with doing that job if you are really committed to that. You would find being as vegan as possible with that still most satisfying. The most healthful way to eat is plant-based without processed foods, there is protein we need that way. If you bring as much of your own items as you can that can help. They would provide vegetarian food for those working at this, but not healthy meals? And if you are lactose intolerant, they don't tolerate you working there?

 

[Nekodaiden]

Just jumping in here to say that pooping 3x/day is a good thing! "Perfect!," as Alicia Silverstone says on the Dr. Oz show @ 4:58 (I love her in this clip -- Note I do NOT watch the Dr. Oz show, just saw this clip as it came through the interwebs a long time ago):

Love the ^5 at the end ?

Pfft! Celebs giving advice about poo frequency! Who says 3 poos a day is better than 2 slightly larger ones or even 4 smaller ones for the frequent eaters? Huh? So anecdotal. I bet she doesn't even know how much her 3 poos a day weigh!

 

[Lou]

@forester ,

I just learned about this guy, Rip Esselstyn, a vegan firefighter.
He has a podcast called Plant Strong and a book called the Engine 2 Diet.

 

[TofuRobot]

@forester ,

I just learned about this guy, Rip Esselstyn, a vegan firefighter.
He has a podcast called Plant Strong and a book called the Engine 2 Diet.

@forester ,

I just learned about this guy, Rip Esselstyn, a vegan firefighter.
He has a podcast called Plant Strong and a book called the Engine 2 Diet.

Yes!! How could I have forgotten about Rip?? Rich Roll had him on one of his podcasts. They are awesome. @forester you should watch it and read up on his story. (His Engine2 almond milk is really good, too!):