''I'm a lost viking, marooned in a strange, new land!''
Remembering Second Summer
- Thread starter shyvas
- Start date
OP
OP
Further to the very sad news of Second Summer's passing, I thought that this would be an ideal place to pay a tribute to our founder.
For any of you who wish to post any memories, thoughts, photos so that we can pay tribute to Second Summer, please feel free to do so. When I think of him, I remember a person who was very open minded and as he would say ''not a thin skinned person'', so let your thoughts flow............
OP
OP
Here are my words in no particular order...............
I first 'met' Second Summer on Veggie Boards in 2012 when I was a flexitarian. I joined just before there was a change of Administration and I remember Second Summer's (Indian Summer as he was known at the time) invitation to come and join Veggie Views. This is all where our adventure started.
Indeed, it was very exciting to be part of a brand new online community that was vegan. All of this was quite new to me and thankfully, members like myself who had started this new journey towards veganism were accepted. So my steps were tiny steps and thanks to the support and numerous advice, I because a vegetarian, later on a strict vegetarian and finally, a vegan. Since then, I have become an animal rights activist and my whole purpose in life; is about animal rights. Trying to help pidges by having learnt how to catch/de-string is also a huge part of why I do, especially when I'm in Brighton.
It was at times a bumpy road but I can say that I was never shunned. I do remember at times, Second Summer saying that most people weren't logical thinkers, so in a way, I always kept this in mind.
I applied for the position as steward for the Food & Drink section and was very happy to set up the Recipe section. All of this was new to me as I had never been part of a mod team. I will add that I also spent hours setting up both the section and the various recipes. It wasn't a case of copy/paste but researching recipes/modifying/converting etc. Second Summer gave his pov several times until we came to a compromise. I do remember him asking whether the British Bakes & Cakes was necessary! Most probably due to the lack of his enthusiasm for the latter! Anyway, I managed to sway him into giving me his go ahead.
When I started a new hobby; food styling, he was also very supportive and would happily comment on my progress. I suspect that he was a real foodie and always enjoyed his meals. The 'Supper/Whatcha Eatin' threads are far the most popular on the forum.
I must say that when I did have questions or asked for help, he was always obliging and never once did he treat me like an inferior person. His calm manner really did make the difference. He would even go out of his way and post me screen shots on how to do 'this or that'!
A few years into our journey as Veggie Views, Second Summer announced his decision to merge with Veganforum.org. His main goal was to have a larger community and where the moderation was not too strict or heavy handed as he would say. So, this is how today's Veganforum started; members from VV and VF became part of one large group.
At this time our Moderation group had dwindled down to just a handful and Second Summer was always steering the boat. I'm sure that it's his Viking roots that guided him.
Being in charge of a forum/message board is not always smooth sailing and a lot of the work goes on behind the scenes. I can say that at times, we spent an hour or two going through the Rules & Regulations plus all the other aspects (dealing with duplicate threads etc)that a forum entails. He was always very mindful to be within the legislation and always bearing in mind our members thoughts and expectations.
When he announced the very sad news concerning his health in 2024, it came as a blow. We exchanged a lot in the moderation forum and I knew that despite his journey being the worst that he'd experienced, he always was present and made sure that the forum was being run efficiently.
Then came the announcement of the devastating news.
Second Summer is no longer but I feel that his spirit will live on via Veganforum. This will always be part of his legacy and I speak for both myself and many members, who will be eternally grateful to him for having founded our community.
RIP Second Summer, you will always be Indian Summer to me. Thank you.
There is one photo (2017) that comes to mind of Second Summer; when he was visiting Bournemouth, a town which is clearly dear to him. He came over with Jen and Freya for a weekend and the snap is of him (his post) enjoying a relaxing moment on the beach.
Something that he posted always stayed stood out to me, as I found that it was very touching:
''Pigeons, I remember the first time I came to England, I think in the spring of 2000 on a trip with some friends to go to a concert in Bournemouth. I was sitting alone on a bench in a park, and I was sitting so still that after a while some pigeons joined me on the bench and even walked over / sat on me. It was quite strange.''
It was also interesting to hear about Norwegian traditions that he related to; especially St Lucia which if I remember is celebrated before Christmas with cakes and girls who dress in a traditional manner. I may be wrong here. He also mentioned Yule which I believe is celebrated on 24th December.
"Fattigmann, hjorthorn, pepperkaker, kakemann, riskrem ... All the traditional Norwegian Yule cookies and desserts!"
"It's St. Lucia Day after all! (It's a mostly Scandinavian thing.)"
He also talked about the island where he came from; Bolga and also the fjords. When I asked him why he had relocated to the UK, it was due to more interesting job opportunities that were available.
''Norway is really a beautiful country. Fjords, islands, mountains, lakes, forests, snow, ... I often question my decision to move to the UK!''
Another factor was that veganism was more prominent in the UK compared to Norway. He went on to say that Norwegians ate a lot of fish and weren't keen on plant based food.
"No, I decided on my own. It was a long process with multiple influences. First of all, my mother instilled good values such as respect and compassion for animals and nature from a young age. I always hated eating meat foods with visible blood vessels and so on. Then I learnt in school that there were such lifestyles as vegetarianism and veganism. Then I met a few people who actually adhered to those principles, and I was exposed to and sought out anti-meat themes in literature and music. Then I made the decision to go vegetarian, and some years later I also went vegan."
It was a very sad time for him when his mum passed away a few years ago. His dad who is elderly and frail still lives on the island. Being an immigrant myself, I know how hard it is to live far away from your family. He always spoke so fondly of his trips back to his homeland and being able to admire the nature.
Making the most of being able to travel:
"I thought it would be interesting to hear some travel stories and views on the places we have visited, and especially if these are places we've visited as vegans. And who knows, maybe we have even crossed paths without realising?
Personally, even though I don't actually like the process of travelling (especially not flying), I've been privileged enough to visit many places on altogether 3 (or maybe 4) different continents. Some places I have visited in connection with my jobs, and other places I've visited while on holiday.
Some of the places that left the most of an impression:
- Grand Canaria (does this count as Africa?
) I visited this island when I was a child, so this was before I was vegan.
- Grand Canyon, Arizona & New Mexico (road trip). The landscape was fantastic!
- Illinois from north to south (road trip). Lots of weird and wonderful things to see, believe it or not!
- Mostar in Bosnia, Dubrovnik in Croatia. The latter was a lovely place to relax, though if you looked closely, there were still bullet holes after the war in the 90s. In Mostar the wounds from the war were more out in the open.
- Trieste in Italy. Very nice climate, wonderful sunsets, very nice food."
I always thought deep down that Second Summer was a foodie:
''Mrs Summer made breakfast earlier which consisted of tofu scramble, fake bacon and fried potatoes, and she'd also made a thick smoothie with blueberries, bananas, avocado, plant milk etc. All very nice, I think both myself and little miss Summer thought it was just perfect.''
He was also very angry with his country who murdered a walrus. I believe that we can all relate to this.
"I'm super annoyed with my homeland and it's embarrassing to be Norwegian now. I might just start telling people I'm Swedish ...!
And actually, my own home town (in Norway) also murdered a walrus just a few years ago. That decision was just taken at the local level by the trigger happy wildlife management team after just a few days. This was the same team who decided to murder an elk who went on a walkabout into town, except they missed at first and almost shot a woman inside a building instead.
Freya had visited a number of other countries around the North Sea, all with larger populations than Norway. But no, in Norway wildlife management is done with a rifle."
Arlo (the family pet) was also a big part of his life. Indeed, he was a family man and he often related of his family outings and stories of Arlo. When Arlo visited him a few days before his passing, he said that it was 'an excellent moment'. I felt in that moment, that his joy was intense.
Arlo-the dog in the blanket.
"We drove all the way to Banbury to buy vegan soft serve ice cream :"
And yes, Arlo got to sample a nibble as well after the ingredients list had been deemed not completely unsuitable for dogs."
He couldn't get over the donkey population in the UK. However, it may be due to the fact that there are many donkey sanctuaries here. However, some people do keep these gorgeous animals as pets.
'I was just reading the local newspaper, and I noticed a piece about a local donkey sanctuary. This got me thinking. Why does the UK have so many donkeys? It doesn't seem to be explained in the article linked from the OP. I'm aware that there are some wild donkeys in the New Forest, but I think generally donkeys in the UK are domesticated. And humans in the modern era don't really need donkeys, I don't think? So why do we still have so many? Is it because the Church of England needs them in the nativity plays?''
Do other countries have significant donkey populations as well? I don't think I remember ever seeing a donkey in my 30 years of living in Norway. I've seen mules in the US (by the Grand Canyon), which means they must have donkeys as well.
I have nothing against donkeys, for the record! Just curious why we seem to have so many.
Little did he know that I never called him by his new user name. He was always Indian Summer to my mind:
"Finally, after much hesitation and over-thinking I have gone ahead and changed my username! It's going to take some time getting used to.
I considered just Papa Summer or Mr Summer. (Even briefly changed it to Mr Summer!) I know I said 'Second Summer' didn't have as much appeal to me. But then it struck me it has a double meaning: It means essentially the same as 'Indian Summer' but it's also the second Summer-related username I have. Hahaha.
Now I just need to find a new avatar."
I was so very pleased to have met both him and Freya at Brighton's Veg Fest in 2023. We had lunch and exchanged some banter. He came across as a very discreet, calm and highly intelligent person and I'm sure that he found that I was a bit of a nutcase, as I chat far too much. It was indeed wonderful to have met him which is rare, as so many of our members are spread all across the world; mostly being in the USA. I also believe from what he related to me afterwards, that he enjoyed his day out in Brighton with Freya. It's a paradise for vegans due to the multiple choices of eateries, shops and lovely vegan people that live there.
I'm happy that he mentioned during our last conversations, how much kindness,support and care he had received from everyone during his final months. This is heartwarming to hear.
My memories of Karl/Indian Summer, will also be filled with warmth and gratitude. I will always picture the Norwegian fjords when I think of him. He will always remain the 'Viking lost in the mist.'
RIP Indian Summer.
"
I first 'met' Second Summer on Veggie Boards in 2012 when I was a flexitarian. I joined just before there was a change of Administration and I remember Second Summer's (Indian Summer as he was known at the time) invitation to come and join Veggie Views. This is all where our adventure started.
Indeed, it was very exciting to be part of a brand new online community that was vegan. All of this was quite new to me and thankfully, members like myself who had started this new journey towards veganism were accepted. So my steps were tiny steps and thanks to the support and numerous advice, I because a vegetarian, later on a strict vegetarian and finally, a vegan. Since then, I have become an animal rights activist and my whole purpose in life; is about animal rights. Trying to help pidges by having learnt how to catch/de-string is also a huge part of why I do, especially when I'm in Brighton.
It was at times a bumpy road but I can say that I was never shunned. I do remember at times, Second Summer saying that most people weren't logical thinkers, so in a way, I always kept this in mind.
I applied for the position as steward for the Food & Drink section and was very happy to set up the Recipe section. All of this was new to me as I had never been part of a mod team. I will add that I also spent hours setting up both the section and the various recipes. It wasn't a case of copy/paste but researching recipes/modifying/converting etc. Second Summer gave his pov several times until we came to a compromise. I do remember him asking whether the British Bakes & Cakes was necessary! Most probably due to the lack of his enthusiasm for the latter! Anyway, I managed to sway him into giving me his go ahead.
When I started a new hobby; food styling, he was also very supportive and would happily comment on my progress. I suspect that he was a real foodie and always enjoyed his meals. The 'Supper/Whatcha Eatin' threads are far the most popular on the forum.
I must say that when I did have questions or asked for help, he was always obliging and never once did he treat me like an inferior person. His calm manner really did make the difference. He would even go out of his way and post me screen shots on how to do 'this or that'!
A few years into our journey as Veggie Views, Second Summer announced his decision to merge with Veganforum.org. His main goal was to have a larger community and where the moderation was not too strict or heavy handed as he would say. So, this is how today's Veganforum started; members from VV and VF became part of one large group.
At this time our Moderation group had dwindled down to just a handful and Second Summer was always steering the boat. I'm sure that it's his Viking roots that guided him.
Being in charge of a forum/message board is not always smooth sailing and a lot of the work goes on behind the scenes. I can say that at times, we spent an hour or two going through the Rules & Regulations plus all the other aspects (dealing with duplicate threads etc)that a forum entails. He was always very mindful to be within the legislation and always bearing in mind our members thoughts and expectations.
When he announced the very sad news concerning his health in 2024, it came as a blow. We exchanged a lot in the moderation forum and I knew that despite his journey being the worst that he'd experienced, he always was present and made sure that the forum was being run efficiently.
Then came the announcement of the devastating news.
Second Summer is no longer but I feel that his spirit will live on via Veganforum. This will always be part of his legacy and I speak for both myself and many members, who will be eternally grateful to him for having founded our community.
RIP Second Summer, you will always be Indian Summer to me. Thank you.
There is one photo (2017) that comes to mind of Second Summer; when he was visiting Bournemouth, a town which is clearly dear to him. He came over with Jen and Freya for a weekend and the snap is of him (his post) enjoying a relaxing moment on the beach.
Something that he posted always stayed stood out to me, as I found that it was very touching:
''Pigeons, I remember the first time I came to England, I think in the spring of 2000 on a trip with some friends to go to a concert in Bournemouth. I was sitting alone on a bench in a park, and I was sitting so still that after a while some pigeons joined me on the bench and even walked over / sat on me. It was quite strange.''
It was also interesting to hear about Norwegian traditions that he related to; especially St Lucia which if I remember is celebrated before Christmas with cakes and girls who dress in a traditional manner. I may be wrong here. He also mentioned Yule which I believe is celebrated on 24th December.
"Fattigmann, hjorthorn, pepperkaker, kakemann, riskrem ... All the traditional Norwegian Yule cookies and desserts!"
"It's St. Lucia Day after all! (It's a mostly Scandinavian thing.)"
He also talked about the island where he came from; Bolga and also the fjords. When I asked him why he had relocated to the UK, it was due to more interesting job opportunities that were available.
''Norway is really a beautiful country. Fjords, islands, mountains, lakes, forests, snow, ... I often question my decision to move to the UK!''
Another factor was that veganism was more prominent in the UK compared to Norway. He went on to say that Norwegians ate a lot of fish and weren't keen on plant based food.
"No, I decided on my own. It was a long process with multiple influences. First of all, my mother instilled good values such as respect and compassion for animals and nature from a young age. I always hated eating meat foods with visible blood vessels and so on. Then I learnt in school that there were such lifestyles as vegetarianism and veganism. Then I met a few people who actually adhered to those principles, and I was exposed to and sought out anti-meat themes in literature and music. Then I made the decision to go vegetarian, and some years later I also went vegan."
It was a very sad time for him when his mum passed away a few years ago. His dad who is elderly and frail still lives on the island. Being an immigrant myself, I know how hard it is to live far away from your family. He always spoke so fondly of his trips back to his homeland and being able to admire the nature.
Making the most of being able to travel:
"I thought it would be interesting to hear some travel stories and views on the places we have visited, and especially if these are places we've visited as vegans. And who knows, maybe we have even crossed paths without realising?
Personally, even though I don't actually like the process of travelling (especially not flying), I've been privileged enough to visit many places on altogether 3 (or maybe 4) different continents. Some places I have visited in connection with my jobs, and other places I've visited while on holiday.
Some of the places that left the most of an impression:
- Grand Canaria (does this count as Africa?
) I visited this island when I was a child, so this was before I was vegan.- Grand Canyon, Arizona & New Mexico (road trip). The landscape was fantastic!
- Illinois from north to south (road trip). Lots of weird and wonderful things to see, believe it or not!
- Mostar in Bosnia, Dubrovnik in Croatia. The latter was a lovely place to relax, though if you looked closely, there were still bullet holes after the war in the 90s. In Mostar the wounds from the war were more out in the open.
- Trieste in Italy. Very nice climate, wonderful sunsets, very nice food."
I always thought deep down that Second Summer was a foodie:
''Mrs Summer made breakfast earlier which consisted of tofu scramble, fake bacon and fried potatoes, and she'd also made a thick smoothie with blueberries, bananas, avocado, plant milk etc. All very nice, I think both myself and little miss Summer thought it was just perfect.''
He was also very angry with his country who murdered a walrus. I believe that we can all relate to this.
"I'm super annoyed with my homeland and it's embarrassing to be Norwegian now. I might just start telling people I'm Swedish ...!
And actually, my own home town (in Norway) also murdered a walrus just a few years ago. That decision was just taken at the local level by the trigger happy wildlife management team after just a few days. This was the same team who decided to murder an elk who went on a walkabout into town, except they missed at first and almost shot a woman inside a building instead.
Freya had visited a number of other countries around the North Sea, all with larger populations than Norway. But no, in Norway wildlife management is done with a rifle."
Arlo (the family pet) was also a big part of his life. Indeed, he was a family man and he often related of his family outings and stories of Arlo. When Arlo visited him a few days before his passing, he said that it was 'an excellent moment'. I felt in that moment, that his joy was intense.
Arlo-the dog in the blanket.
"We drove all the way to Banbury to buy vegan soft serve ice cream :"
And yes, Arlo got to sample a nibble as well after the ingredients list had been deemed not completely unsuitable for dogs."
He couldn't get over the donkey population in the UK. However, it may be due to the fact that there are many donkey sanctuaries here. However, some people do keep these gorgeous animals as pets.
'I was just reading the local newspaper, and I noticed a piece about a local donkey sanctuary. This got me thinking. Why does the UK have so many donkeys? It doesn't seem to be explained in the article linked from the OP. I'm aware that there are some wild donkeys in the New Forest, but I think generally donkeys in the UK are domesticated. And humans in the modern era don't really need donkeys, I don't think? So why do we still have so many? Is it because the Church of England needs them in the nativity plays?''
Do other countries have significant donkey populations as well? I don't think I remember ever seeing a donkey in my 30 years of living in Norway. I've seen mules in the US (by the Grand Canyon), which means they must have donkeys as well.
I have nothing against donkeys, for the record! Just curious why we seem to have so many.
Little did he know that I never called him by his new user name. He was always Indian Summer to my mind:
"Finally, after much hesitation and over-thinking I have gone ahead and changed my username! It's going to take some time getting used to.
I considered just Papa Summer or Mr Summer. (Even briefly changed it to Mr Summer!) I know I said 'Second Summer' didn't have as much appeal to me. But then it struck me it has a double meaning: It means essentially the same as 'Indian Summer' but it's also the second Summer-related username I have. Hahaha.
Now I just need to find a new avatar."
I was so very pleased to have met both him and Freya at Brighton's Veg Fest in 2023. We had lunch and exchanged some banter. He came across as a very discreet, calm and highly intelligent person and I'm sure that he found that I was a bit of a nutcase, as I chat far too much. It was indeed wonderful to have met him which is rare, as so many of our members are spread all across the world; mostly being in the USA. I also believe from what he related to me afterwards, that he enjoyed his day out in Brighton with Freya. It's a paradise for vegans due to the multiple choices of eateries, shops and lovely vegan people that live there.
I'm happy that he mentioned during our last conversations, how much kindness,support and care he had received from everyone during his final months. This is heartwarming to hear.
My memories of Karl/Indian Summer, will also be filled with warmth and gratitude. I will always picture the Norwegian fjords when I think of him. He will always remain the 'Viking lost in the mist.'
RIP Indian Summer.
"
My gosh, @shyvas this is such a beautiful tribute. 
I met Karl/Indian Summer/Second Summer in Boston with @IamJen and several other members back in the Veggieboards days. I remember being so nervous and shy and not sure if I even had a conversation with anyone. I felt like such a dork.
I dragged my daughter with me because I would never go by myself. So sadly, I don't have any real stories to tell.
I joined VB in 2005 so I've known some of you a really long time. I only know that I feel a true and deep sadness at his passing. Like it's an end of an era only he was way too young. I always thought of him as The Captain.
Oh Captain, my Captain, I wish you a peaceful, forever sleep.
I met Karl/Indian Summer/Second Summer in Boston with @IamJen and several other members back in the Veggieboards days. I remember being so nervous and shy and not sure if I even had a conversation with anyone. I felt like such a dork.
I dragged my daughter with me because I would never go by myself. So sadly, I don't have any real stories to tell. I joined VB in 2005 so I've known some of you a really long time. I only know that I feel a true and deep sadness at his passing. Like it's an end of an era only he was way too young. I always thought of him as The Captain.
Oh Captain, my Captain, I wish you a peaceful, forever sleep.
I was on another forum called Vegan Forum from 2006 when I went vegan and I'm not sure if Second Summer was a mod on that forum back then? I joined VB around 2008 so I really have "known" the people on here for ages. I was thinking about that in my meditation class yesterday as time does go so fast. It was far too young for him to pass away. It is very sad.
I had stolen a couple of photos from Facebook friends from the Boston trip. I think it was 2007?
@Amy SF is the only one still here. I am fb friends with Skylark and Brandon and @IamJen. I'm happy about that. I think that's Kacie in there too but not sure. I wish I had the one with the ducks all in a row. It's so cute.
@Amy SF is the only one still here. I am fb friends with Skylark and Brandon and @IamJen. I'm happy about that. I think that's Kacie in there too but not sure. I wish I had the one with the ducks all in a row. It's so cute.
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2012
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- 19,519
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- I'm liek, in Cali, dude.
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Chryssie
Internet Junkie
I don't have any memories to share but I have been "here" since 2008 (I think) so have known some of you a very long time. I remember when Jeremy (my ex) and I first went vegan and he found VeggieBoards for support. This "place" has always been a constant for me through many events both good and bad in my life and I will be forever grateful to Karl. RIP beautiful soul!
VeganSkittlezz
Newcomer
It's obviously very hard to list my memories of him haha but the other additions are very sweet. He talked to me lots about Vegan forum/Veggie Views/Veggie boards ect when I was smaller. He really loved everyone here.
Him on our Brighton trip in 2023 mentioned above.
Hike in Norway. August 2023
A much plainer English "hike", this was our favorite local spot though. October 2023
With Arlo. April 2024
Him on our Brighton trip in 2023 mentioned above.
Hike in Norway. August 2023
A much plainer English "hike", this was our favorite local spot though. October 2023
With Arlo. April 2024
We are going to miss him and send love and peace to his family and those of you here that knew him best. Thank you @Second Summer for founding this forum as it helped to keep me on this vegan pathway and enriched my life tremendously, so grateful.
Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
I never met Karl in person, but first knew him during my days on VeggieBoards. I still post on VB sometimes, but it really has changed. As I understand it, a number of other VBers also set up their own website quite some time ago (I think before the ownership changed), but I never visited that one.
I've been on 4 other message boards besides this one, and this has been the best. I wish you a joyous eternity, Captain Karl / @Second Summer .
I've been on 4 other message boards besides this one, and this has been the best. I wish you a joyous eternity, Captain Karl / @Second Summer .
Tom, "this has been the best" will be music to Karl's ears, wherever he is
Karen, I couldn't find the ducklings one (I bet Megan might have it?) but I did find us walking the Freedom Trail...
I never had the pleasure of meeting Karl in person, but I will always remember his enthusiasm for all things computer/IT. One of my favorite threads to read is the one about OG computer equipment and technology. Even though some of it is over my head, it is fun to read everyone’s recollections about the early days of computers. I always appreciated all of the techie updates he did for our community to make it run smoothly and efficiently as well. This place is a constant in my life, and I am so grateful for it. RIP to a wonderful, thoughtful and compassionate soul.
Jamie in Chile
Forum Legend
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2016
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