'Plants are trying to kill you`!-Dr Anthony Chaffee
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Lou
Forum Legend
I wonder about the authors of books (or lectures) like this.
unlike their followers, they are intelligent and knowledgeable. is their motive just profit?
unlike their followers, they are intelligent and knowledgeable. is their motive just profit?
Whats sadly most hilarious about this is everyones claim that eating plants are bad because they have things in them that can potetially harm you while ignoring the reality that animals can and will kill you. If they don't, the parasites and bacteria in them will.
The other irony is the commenters keep saying you need to do the opposite of what they tell you--as if plant based diets aren't the opposite of whats pushed isn't enough!
I think it was a dr Phil show that featured both people on plant based diets with their doctors as well as carnivours. Even Dr Phil and his team were willing to admit plant based diets had merit and condemned just eating meat.
You can find anything to agree with you if you look hard enough. I'm still waiting for those space lasers to do their whammy on the vaccinated
The other irony is the commenters keep saying you need to do the opposite of what they tell you--as if plant based diets aren't the opposite of whats pushed isn't enough!
I think it was a dr Phil show that featured both people on plant based diets with their doctors as well as carnivours. Even Dr Phil and his team were willing to admit plant based diets had merit and condemned just eating meat.
You can find anything to agree with you if you look hard enough. I'm still waiting for those space lasers to do their whammy on the vaccinated
Lou
Forum Legend
I don't have the time or the inclination to watch the video. So please forgive me if I make a false assumption.
I did google the Dr. and the title of the video and found several articles about him and his thesis.
It appears to be very similar to the BS that Dr. Grundy has put forth.
I still remember my initial reaction to Dr. Grundy: OMG! Everything I know is wrong! (BTW that is a great comedy album). My next reaction was to start googling.
Dr Gregor (Our Hero
), has a good article where he discredits Grundy and debunks his book.
I do believe that a lot of people are just gullible idiots. But I wonder (a lot) if the guys making the speeches, recording the videos, and writing the books believe their own BS. Is it just to make money? Are they shills for the meat industry, or pawns of satan?
I think there is evidence that they ARE shills for animal agriculture. But that does necessarily negate the other options.
as with many powerful lies - there are kernels or truth.
For instance, his premise, "...chronic diseases... are actually caused by the food we eat, or don’t eat, and can in many cases be reversed easily with dietary changes", is true.
It's also true that plants contain various compounds that are not good for you.
There are the acids in citrus and tomatoes that can cause heartburn, and the alkaloids in some plants that cause inflammation. The anti-nutrients that interfere with vitamin and mineral abosbtion.
But according to 99% of the medical community these are small concerns.
I did google the Dr. and the title of the video and found several articles about him and his thesis.
It appears to be very similar to the BS that Dr. Grundy has put forth.
I still remember my initial reaction to Dr. Grundy: OMG! Everything I know is wrong! (BTW that is a great comedy album). My next reaction was to start googling.
Dr Gregor (Our Hero
), has a good article where he discredits Grundy and debunks his book.I do believe that a lot of people are just gullible idiots. But I wonder (a lot) if the guys making the speeches, recording the videos, and writing the books believe their own BS. Is it just to make money? Are they shills for the meat industry, or pawns of satan?
I think there is evidence that they ARE shills for animal agriculture. But that does necessarily negate the other options.
as with many powerful lies - there are kernels or truth.
For instance, his premise, "...chronic diseases... are actually caused by the food we eat, or don’t eat, and can in many cases be reversed easily with dietary changes", is true.
It's also true that plants contain various compounds that are not good for you.
There are the acids in citrus and tomatoes that can cause heartburn, and the alkaloids in some plants that cause inflammation. The anti-nutrients that interfere with vitamin and mineral abosbtion.
But according to 99% of the medical community these are small concerns.
OK, yes, unfortunately you will never really find out the real background, which is a shame. But maybe yes, if you researched long enough, but...It probably won't be worth it. But of course I would be interested.
Lou
Forum Legend
How is the elephant in the room not being questioned? How are the animals he avocates eating thriving so very well on plants alone?
Our closest reletives are apes which are almost all plant based
Our closest reletives are apes which are almost all plant based
Like @Lou, I don't really want to take the time to watch the half hour video. The title alone makes me think that I've heard the talk many times before. Despite that, I will take a look at the YouTube channel that posted it.
The video appears on a YouTube Channel called "Low Carb Down Under." Their webpage features a shiny piece of what looks like salmon on their home page: Low Carb Down Under - so they're likely not a vegan-based organization.
One of their blogs is called "Vegan Diet & Child Health" that claims to have "dismantled" plant-based diets: Vegan Diet & Child Health - Low Carb Down Under - I only skim-read it and saw references to plant based diets having nutritional deficiencies, etc. Despite all of that, it summarizes by saying that if you choose a plant-based diet, be sure to accommodate for its deficiencies. That doesn't seem like an all-out dismissal and it's likely what a lot of people actually do.
They look like an organization that's selling a diet plan via coaching, books, DVDs, and ketone analyzers. I found some things that I agreed with on the site and some things I didn't agree with, which is pretty typical. I've never tried a low carb diet and I never plan to, but that appears to be what they're mostly advocating. That's fine. I can choose to either follow it or not.
As for plant-based diets, no doctor has ever told me that it's dangerous or risky to follow one. They usually do double-takes at my normal cholesterol levels and when I tell them "I don't eat very much meat" (which is an understatement), then they get it. None of them have ever told me to "use caution" with such a diet, probably because my "health numbers" up to this point have always come out very normal. I hope that lasts, but age will probably set in at some point. So, I don't really see any reason to deviate from my 99% (sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more) plant-based diet right now.
As far as "plants are trying to kill you!" so is everything else! To quote Seneca, we're "dying every day." Meat, air, microorganisms, the aging process, plants, and sometimes other human and non-human animals (hopefully this circumstance remains rare) all contribute to the inevitable. Perhaps the real question to ask is what is trying to kill you the fastest?
The video appears on a YouTube Channel called "Low Carb Down Under." Their webpage features a shiny piece of what looks like salmon on their home page: Low Carb Down Under - so they're likely not a vegan-based organization.
One of their blogs is called "Vegan Diet & Child Health" that claims to have "dismantled" plant-based diets: Vegan Diet & Child Health - Low Carb Down Under - I only skim-read it and saw references to plant based diets having nutritional deficiencies, etc. Despite all of that, it summarizes by saying that if you choose a plant-based diet, be sure to accommodate for its deficiencies. That doesn't seem like an all-out dismissal and it's likely what a lot of people actually do.
They look like an organization that's selling a diet plan via coaching, books, DVDs, and ketone analyzers. I found some things that I agreed with on the site and some things I didn't agree with, which is pretty typical. I've never tried a low carb diet and I never plan to, but that appears to be what they're mostly advocating. That's fine. I can choose to either follow it or not.
As for plant-based diets, no doctor has ever told me that it's dangerous or risky to follow one. They usually do double-takes at my normal cholesterol levels and when I tell them "I don't eat very much meat" (which is an understatement), then they get it. None of them have ever told me to "use caution" with such a diet, probably because my "health numbers" up to this point have always come out very normal. I hope that lasts, but age will probably set in at some point. So, I don't really see any reason to deviate from my 99% (sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more) plant-based diet right now.
As far as "plants are trying to kill you!" so is everything else!
To quote Seneca, we're "dying every day." Meat, air, microorganisms, the aging process, plants, and sometimes other human and non-human animals (hopefully this circumstance remains rare) all contribute to the inevitable. Perhaps the real question to ask is what is trying to kill you the fastest?
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Judging by their Twitter profile, 'The Plant Free MD' looks awfully similar to many other 'carnivore diet' grifters out there. The Twitter algo also suggests plenty of other prominent carnivores engaged in similar swindlery so I'd just steer clear of this guy if you're just generally browsing. He will only steal your time ... which is your most valuable asset.
If anyone gives it a watch for research purposes though, please do report back. Always good to stay ahead of the out and out lies spouted by these dangerous individuals.
I've blogged a couple of times on the carnivore diet and researched it quite a bit ... I fully believe there's a strong chance the whole movement has been seeded by the meat industry marketing machines. This interesting Twitter thread is pretty convincing!
If anyone gives it a watch for research purposes though, please do report back. Always good to stay ahead of the out and out lies spouted by these dangerous individuals.
I've blogged a couple of times on the carnivore diet and researched it quite a bit ... I fully believe there's a strong chance the whole movement has been seeded by the meat industry marketing machines. This interesting Twitter thread is pretty convincing!
Lou
Forum Legend
I was already health concious before becoming vegan. the choice has never occurred but I think maybe I would even sacrifice some healthy eating in order to be vegan.
However the more I learn the more I am convinced that eating plant based is the healthiest choice.
but this low carb fad that is going on is very concerning to me. In Real Life, with my real friends & acquaintances I find many people going on low carb diets. Just yesterday one told me that was their NY resolution.
There is so much research that shows that low carb is not as healthy as high carb. And although it does have some weight loss benefits - they are not long term weight loss benefits. Some of my friends just needed to have explained that a low sugar diet is not equal to a low carb diet. You can be sugar free and eat a high carb diet.
And some people think that grains are bad now. then I have to explain that highly processed grains are bad but whole grains are good. And like all good things must be eaten in moderation.
Anyway, these Doctors that are pushing low carb, Atkins, keto, carnivorous diets are just confusing people.
However the more I learn the more I am convinced that eating plant based is the healthiest choice.
but this low carb fad that is going on is very concerning to me. In Real Life, with my real friends & acquaintances I find many people going on low carb diets. Just yesterday one told me that was their NY resolution.
There is so much research that shows that low carb is not as healthy as high carb. And although it does have some weight loss benefits - they are not long term weight loss benefits. Some of my friends just needed to have explained that a low sugar diet is not equal to a low carb diet. You can be sugar free and eat a high carb diet.
And some people think that grains are bad now. then I have to explain that highly processed grains are bad but whole grains are good. And like all good things must be eaten in moderation.
Anyway, these Doctors that are pushing low carb, Atkins, keto, carnivorous diets are just confusing people.
I'm starting to think it's no coincidence that a well balanced WFPBD is synonymous with good health
Funny you should mention grains. I had a brief interaction with one of these carnivores on Twitter the other day and they were banging on about how human health has declined since the dawn of agriculture and it's evident in archaeological investigations. When I pointed out that there's strong evidence to suggest humans were eating whole grains for 90 thousand years before we engaged in agriculture, they went quiet.
I find these carnivore grifters are not keen on facts.
Couldn't agree more and that is why we need places like this forum to inject some rational discourse
Lou
Forum Legend
There is a book, by a well respected author/ scientist, can't remember the title now....
but the thesis is that everything went downhill about 5,000 years ago when western civilization developed agriculture. From agriculture, we needed then to invent currency, politics, jobs, slavery, inequality....
very well thought out and interesting.
Sounds right up my street
Profit, interest rates and debt are all mechanisms which need to be outlawed in my opinion ... which is not a hugely popular position! Then stop doing all the meaningless 9 to 5 jobs we're all engaged in creating nothing but a drain on global resources. Then we may start to understand what a sustainable future looks like.Sorry ... gone off on a bit of a tangent there!
Problem is we all have to eat. So there is a need for agriculture and a means to exchange the goods. Add in that humans always seem to want what their neighbour has and capitalism was kind of inevitable.
It's going to take a huge effort to turn this oil tanker around and grifters like Chaffee are pulling the collective consciousness in the wrong direction.
In that Twitter thread I posted it's suggested that the carnivore cult is a well funded, long-term psyop with multiple tentacles. Sounds dramatic but it's certainly plausible
Lou
Forum Legend
Yes, no way to put this genie back in the bottle. Especially with the Earth being so overpopulated.
Still can't come up with the name of the book. Did some googling and found some likely candidates, but if I remember right I read this book 30 years ago. And all the likely candidates are too new.
One of the author's point is that before the "invention of agriculture" people still ate. And not just meat. There was gathering, and probably judging by what we have seen in primitive cultures some small scale gardening or cultivation. Archeologist even claim that 10,000 years ago men mostly ate fruit, seeds, nuts, roots and even some grains. We even have some first hand evidence from first contacts with peoples.
But then someone figured out how to exploit grains - specifically wheat. Wheat production required a lot of people working in the field. Some guy to build and run the mill. Some other guy to be the baker. And another guy to be in charge of storage. and a way to pay everyone. And someone in charge. and then someone to protect the grain from the neighbors.
Pretty soon we had invented a vertical economy. I think the first written records we know about were wheat harvesting tally sheets. Then came bosses, police or the army....
Not the book that I am thinking about but Guns, Germs, And Steel gets into this quite a bit. it's been made into a documentary . I haven't seen the doc but have read the book. I highly recommend it.
Brian W
Conscientious Christian
How does he explain the Blue Zones? And how plant based diets have been around for thousands of years.
They keep pushing the anti soy and anti plant based when there are literally thousands of years of evidence that it is healthy. The diet of the Okinawans is 60% purple sweet potatoes and they are the longest lived people in the world. 1/3rd of India is vegan. They are healthy.
They keep pushing the anti soy and anti plant based when there are literally thousands of years of evidence that it is healthy. The diet of the Okinawans is 60% purple sweet potatoes and they are the longest lived people in the world. 1/3rd of India is vegan. They are healthy.
Lou
Forum Legend
No blog but I do find this concept interesting.Thanks Lou. That's really interesting. I can feel a blog coming on
Also we should not take this concept too far. Like the guys who won't eat grains. or the paleo guys. or the carnivorous guys. All of whom to some extent use history to justify their diet.
There was a doc on Netflix, the botany of desire, written by Michael Pollan. Its premise was that plants have exploited humans. they got larger ranges and lots more biological success by being appealing to humans. the four species examined were apples, potatoes, marijuana and tulips.
I imagine the plants are trying to kill you doc would use as examples the poppy, the tobacco plant, the sugar cane, and..... something that is used just for alcohol.
I think as far as veganism goes we really don't need to worry about these carnivore/paleo types and their ilk. It's just a distraction from veganism's core message of compassion to others. Absolutely nothing to do with diet.
I feel sorry for those who get sucked in to it all, especially carnivore. At face value there do seem to be some short term health benefits for a few people. But some equally worrying short term health issues as well. No-one really knows long term.
But yeah ... ancestral living!
