No, Its Really NOT About You Being a "Nicer" Vegan

Sax

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In one-on-one interactions I think we should be nice vegans. But demonstrations to a large audience should be about effectiveness not feelings. I say **** people off if that's what it takes to shake them out of indifference. Force them to take a position. It'll result in conflict but that's exactly what's needed. Make them defend their positions out loud so everyone can hear how weak their argument really is.
 
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Forest Nymph

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In one-on-one interactions I think we should be nice vegans. But demonstrations to a large audience should be about effectiveness not feelings. I say **** people off if that's what it takes to shake them out of indifference. Force them to take a position. It'll result in conflict but that's exactly what's needed. Make them defend their positions out loud so everyone can hear how weak their argument really is.
Exactly. In real life I am mostly very polite and kind, and when I've talked about animal rights or vegan/vegetarian diets in my grad program during class or presentations, I focus on concepts like speciesism, climate change or intersectional ecofeminist social justice animal rights. I honestly bend over backwards in one on one or professional interactions and I've still received completely rude and inappropriate feedback and comments.

That's why I'm so honest online because I don't think it's effective to shut up or go away because the majority is uncomfortable even during a civil discussion.

I'm also tired of the gaslighting, of people like the suspiciously-named Mischief changing the subject to race (or gender, or fat shaming, or whatever) to avoid the topic of animal rights or climate change. I don't play that game.
 

Indian Summer

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MOD NOTE
I've unfortunately had to delete and edit a lot of posts in this thread. Please refrain from ad hominem / personal attacks, name calling, and please stay on topic.
 

Jay_W

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Well, getting pushback is fairly different from being disprivileged. Anyways:

"Niceness vs. directness" says something about tactics, but you know based on experience that not many people can be made vegan by discussion/debate. So unless you are happy only converting only as many people as you can by refinement of such tactics, "should we be nice" is the wrong framing. (The assumed question being answered by the framing being, "how to reduce animal suffering as much as possible").

IMO the right framing is probably technological, or maybe like "seize power and change ****".
 

Sax

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"Niceness vs. directness" says something about tactics, but you know based on experience that not many people can be made vegan by discussion/debate. So unless you are happy only converting only as many people as you can by refinement of such tactics, "should we be nice" is the wrong framing. (The assumed question being answered by the framing being, "how to reduce animal suffering as much as possible").
Converting someone through discussion/debate isn't a realistic goal IMO. It's such a big change in habit and thinking it has to come from within. The best we can hope for is to plant a seed that will help that along.
 

Nekodaiden

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You don't care about animal rights and wish activists would stop so your meat eating friends will stop judging your plant based diet. I don't care, this isn't about you.
I trust that intelligent readers can discern between "some" and "all" when judging statements, or straw men replies that rely on misrepresentation of statements, which is what your response is. They may be single words but they do make a difference in the meanings of the broader context in which they are used. Some animal activism is effective, some may be effective, and some is counterproductive.

To be clear, I do not care what non-vegan friends think of what I eat or don't eat. However, I do care that outside of me, much of their information on
veganism is what they get from the news, which often (though not always) (note these functional words as well before you attempt another straw man) unfortunately falls into what I consider negative press.
 
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I would like to start out by saying that I am a sinner.

I have also been accused of just about everything over the years. I have been called racists, antifeminist, greedy, sleazy, dishonest and everything in between. Maybe the accusations are correct. Maybe the accusations are a cheap power play.

There was a poster at this forum who talked about being vegan when you are homeless. The guy certainly was not an elitist. He was humble and thoughtful. He unintentionally taught me that I have a bias against homeless people. He changed me for the better, forever.

At the same time, we need to remember the importance of forgiveness. I am a white guy who married a black lady from South Africa in 1993. She grew up in a racially segregated society. She had a higher status as a black Afrikaaner than a black tribal person. She was a political prisoner for a couple of months because she stood up for black tribal people.

I had a good mother. She was a nice person by most reasonable standards. She once told me that I should never marry a ____. She had no negative intentions. I have a duty to remember that she said what she said because she wanted to protect me.

I recall openly admitting in 1996 that I was homophobic and proud of it. I believed that being homosexual was a bad choice and damaging to society. My primary concern about homosexuality was that gay men seemed too promiscuous to me.

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When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." John 8:7.
 

KLS52

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I admit to having certain biases...sometimes we grow up in a climate where it’s inevitable. I like to think what we do/how we react to these biases is what matters. I’ve conquered most of mine, and where I have doubts, I make sure I don’t act on them in a negative way. And 9 out of 10 times I find out that my bias is unfounded. I think it’s ok to be a work a progress as long as we are heading in the right direction.

This is probably going to sound crazy, but if it weren’t for the members of Veggieboards, VeggieViews and now Vegan Forum, I hate to think where I would be today. I was pretty much living in a protective, naive bubble until someone introduced me to the vegan lifestyle. I joined these boards and met some amazing people who really opened my eyes to aspects of both humans, as well as animals. Love them for that. 🥰