Making Compromise in the Vegan Lifestyle?

LukethePrettyGood

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Hi Y'all,

I'm having a moral 'crisis.'

I have been vegetarian since I was 12 and have been vegan for a decade. I have many wonderful recipes and creations to share.

Recently, I had to have a septoplasty, as I had a twice-deviated septum, to my left down the length of my nose and to the right at the tip, with some odd shaping in the bones behind my nose. The result was that to correct my deviation, they had to give me a full nose job, there just wasn't a different way.

My nose healed, and once the swelling went down, I found I had a squishy tip and a big, triangular shaped nostril on one side.

My surgeon is saying he won't touch it for a free touchup, as he would have to open my whole nose up again, 'though before he said if that happened, he could fix it in an hour in-office. Not sure what the deal is..

The crisis is that there is this filler that can quasi-permanently correct the misshapen nostril, allowing me to look like a normal human again. To me, it is quite noticable and detracts from my appearance bigly. My doctor, looking down, while I'm seated in a chair says it isn't that noticeable.. 🙄

The problem is that this filler uses collagen, which is an ingredient derived from animals.

Here's where I have trouble. I have been a solid non-meat eater since I turned vegetarian, without compromising once, ever. I CANNOT put someone's flesh in my mouth and EAT them! I'm careful about all suspect ingredients, carmine, confectioner's glaze, etc.

Now, looked at one way, people are exploiting these animals for a profit, and it is my money that would give them that profit, plus I would have dead animal tissue in my body which horrifies me to no end. The other way I can look at it is that these animals would have been slaughtered for food, and I am not in any way contributing to there demise, in fact, I'm giving them money that does not relate to slaughter, 'though the same awful humans still benefit.

The truth is, while I've had many surgeries and procedures for various reasons, and while I try to ask my doctors to avoid the use of animal-related products, the testing, development and many ingredients in products used already contain animal products, for instance, there was some dissolvable suture or something that was made of animal intestine, I think. Something that bonds with bone too, anyway, I can't remember. When I get prescriptions, I make sure they aren't in gelatin, but these were surgeries that were not a choice.

I can have a normal life and nose, but I will be compromising my principles. On a deeper Spiritual level, that seems like a no-no, if you're going to commit, commit. I think the greatest of sins when we die are when we violate our own beliefs.

On the other hand, I am not being true to myself if I don't fix it, my life's future is at stake, and I will walk a different path either way..

What would you do? What should I do?

I would love some help, a couple days ago, I was at a firm 'No, no matter what, whatever it takes.' Now, I'm looking at my nose crying, and considering the above. Animals are in our electronics, hidden in household goods and furniture and sometimes even used in packaging. All of us have cell phones, 'though we know this.

To me, veganism is reducing harm as much as possible, even organic produce kills pests to grow our food and even plants have souls. We do what we can.

Would a couple of you mind weighing in? I'm just looking for some discourse to clarify my own thinking, even typing this has made me lean more firmly to doing it, it's just, how can I bear it..

Thank you so much!!
 
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welcome to the forum and I am with @Lou - if there are absolutely no non-animal alternatives then you should consider moving forward

The Vegan Society defines veganism as “a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals
Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
 
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If that surgeon told you:
... he won't touch it for a free touchup, as he would have to open my whole nose up again, 'though before he said if that happened, he could fix it in an hour in-office. Not sure what the deal is..
you REALLY should get this clarified BEFORE he does anything else to you! I wouldn't trust him. See if you can get a written copy of the regulations about this sort of thing. This sounds to me like breach of contract, or something like it.

As for the collagen: as you point out, this is a by-product of the meat industry- not a significant reason why the animals are raised and slaughtered in the first place. It would not be a big issue for me, but I'm not fully vegan so I don't know that my opinion counts for that much.
 
Would it matter if you waited to maybe see if you change your perspective? Sometimes when there is a change in looks it doesnt' seem as bad after a time of getting used to the difference.

You also should be sure of the procedure and if you can get a second recommendation. I also dont' understand what was meant by " 'though before he said if that happened, he could fix it in an hour in-office. Not sure what the deal is.."

If it is something you notice and bothered by it, I would do it and make a point to actually do more things that will have impact on animals. Write letters, volunteer, donate funds, have a drive for supplies for an animal rescue......

We only have animal products or testing in most everything because we can forcibly use them, just as we used people- it's not because there aren't alternatives. It takes people opening their eyes to this that will change things, not just individual vegans boycotting them

I get the feeling you won't feel too altruistic if you don't get this corrected-you have to decide what will eat at you more, seeing your face everyday or that tiny amount of one time filler that you wish wasn't made of collagen
 
Would it matter if you waited to maybe see if you change your perspective? Sometimes when there is a change in looks it doesnt' seem as bad after a time of getting used to the difference.

You also should be sure of the procedure and if you can get a second recommendation. I also dont' understand what was meant by " 'though before he said if that happened, he could fix it in an hour in-office. Not sure what the deal is.."

If it is something you notice and bothered by it, I would do it and make a point to actually do more things that will have impact on animals. Write letters, volunteer, donate funds, have a drive for supplies for an animal rescue......

We only have animal products or testing in most everything because we can forcibly use them, just as we used people- it's not because there aren't alternatives. It takes people opening their eyes to this that will change things, not just individual vegans boycotting them

I get the feeling you won't feel too altruistic if you don't get this corrected-you have to decide what will eat at you more, seeing your face everyday or that tiny amount of one time filler that you wish wasn't made of collagen
Thank you, I like your thinking on this, but I'm more likely to begin obsessing WORSE over it.. It's pretty huge though, so I would just assume NOT change my mind.

Thank you for the reply!
 
If that surgeon told you: you REALLY should get this clarified BEFORE he does anything else to you! I wouldn't trust him. See if you can get a written copy of the regulations about this sort of thing. This sounds to me like breach of contract, or something like it.

As for the collagen: as you point out, this is a by-product of the meat industry- not a significant reason why the animals are raised and slaughtered in the first place. It would not be a big issue for me, but I'm not fully vegan so I don't know that my opinion counts for that much.
Oh, he will NOT be the one doing the procedure, this isn't something he even presented as an option. I reached the same conclusion about the collagen too, it was the ick factor and contributions to them, but when I think about it, I'm not paying them to do anything wrong at least. I appreciate your reply!
 
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welcome to the forum and I am with @Lou - if there are absolutely no non-animal alternatives then you should consider moving forward

The Vegan Society defines veganism as “a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals
Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
Thank you. There are no legitimate alternatives, the two options for the nose are silicone or this bella filler, or whatever it is. Silicone is not safe to inject without a casing of some kind and can lump up and migrate, making my nose potentially worse, 'though different. Other fillers dissipate too fast and sometimes also migrate, so would not be a solution for shaping.

Thank you for the Vegan Society input also!
 
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Clearly the way your nose is now is messing with your self-image and causing you significant distress. I know what it is like to "need" a treatment that some people consider unnecessary. I went for the treatment because it was necessary for me. It sounds like you are in a similar position, and I cannot advise you to do differently than I did.

How you come to terms with having a byproduct derived from animal flesh in your body is something I have no experience with. I wouldn't like it either, but if it were necessary for my well-being, I would remind myself of that any time it bothered me.

So, If I were in your position, I would have the treatment. Then I would re-commit to being as vegan as possible.
 
Clearly the way your nose is now is messing with your self-image and causing you significant distress. I know what it is like to "need" a treatment that some people consider unnecessary. I went for the treatment because it was necessary for me. It sounds like you are in a similar position, and I cannot advise you to do differently than I did.

How you come to terms with having a byproduct derived from animal flesh in your body is something I have no experience with. I wouldn't like it either, but if it were necessary for my well-being, I would remind myself of that any time it bothered me.

So, If I were in your position, I would have the treatment. Then I would re-commit to being as vegan as possible.
Thank you, I think it's a combination of feeling like I am betraying them and also putting their flesh in my body. Perhaps I could convince myself it's a spinoff of the protein or something, to make it more remote to me. I heard about some cattle that escaped from a slaughterhouse and were running through the streets. They were positively terrified and doing everything they could to protect each other from recapture. There was a petition to let them live. Not sure what happened with that, but that won't help the ones still inside. That is what I think of when I think about 'my freaking nose.' It makes me wonder how I could care so little I would even consider it, and yet, besides a nose revision, which is more than I could ever afford, it is my only option. Sickening choice to have to make.
 
I'd like share some other thoughts. One of my favorite expressions, that I've often used as a tag, is "don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good". There are times when people get so wrapped up in their concerns, worries, and rules that they can become rather paralysed in indecision.
If you try and kid yourself about where the collagen, or whatever, comes from I believe you'll just get more upset, because you do know better. Animals are used. Go into this knowing full well what you're doing.
When I first went vegan I obsessed about everything. I had discovered algae DHA capsules, the first time taking a supplement really made a difference for me. They were expensive, I had little money. I saw an ad for a drugstore brand that not only was far cheaper than what I had finished, but were on sale buy one get one free. I went to the store and was appalled to find they were in gelatin capsules! A vegan form of DHA in an animal produced shell! I wandered that store for so long, went back to my car, went back in the store and wandered. Gelatine was something I didn't think I'd ever use again. I ended up buying them. I knew how much difference they made in my attention, how if I didn't get these I would either obsess with knowing I could do better, or spending far more money I need for other things that would also upset me. I bought them. I did not regret them.

Do it with full knowledge, do it without regrets. Do your best and accept imperfections.
I hope this comes across as I meant it, I think some people try to be so rigid they end up being less effective in the end
 
I'd like share some other thoughts. One of my favorite expressions, that I've often used as a tag, is "don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good". There are times when people get so wrapped up in their concerns, worries, and rules that they can become rather paralysed in indecision.
If you try and kid yourself about where the collagen, or whatever, comes from I believe you'll just get more upset, because you do know better. Animals are used. Go into this knowing full well what you're doing.
When I first went vegan I obsessed about everything. I had discovered algae DHA capsules, the first time taking a supplement really made a difference for me. They were expensive, I had little money. I saw an ad for a drugstore brand that not only was far cheaper than what I had finished, but were on sale buy one get one free. I went to the store and was appalled to find they were in gelatin capsules! A vegan form of DHA in an animal produced shell! I wandered that store for so long, went back to my car, went back in the store and wandered. Gelatine was something I didn't think I'd ever use again. I ended up buying them. I knew how much difference they made in my attention, how if I didn't get these I would either obsess with knowing I could do better, or spending far more money I need for other things that would also upset me. I bought them. I did not regret them.

Do it with full knowledge, do it without regrets. Do your best and accept imperfections.
I hope this comes across as I meant it, I think some people try to be so rigid they end up being less effective in the end
Ohmigosh, you are so right. 'Kidding ourselves' actually causes trauma, and I must do what I do in full knowledge, not lie to myself. Those DHA pills are expensive, I switched to spirulina, which tastes like dirt no matter what you do to it. I'm glad you mentioned that though, I haven't been taking anything in months!

I am a perfectionist though, so you nailed it. I guess I will do so knowing what I am doing, and then will make an effort to make an even greater difference in the world. Not in 'compensation' for the filler, but using the experience as an impetus to help continue making change. Thank you for you feedback!

By the way, my title got changed and I didn't do it. Do site admins sometimes retitle a thread, to something they think is more appropriate?

Thank you again, love your outlook! 🙂
 
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I used a medical collagen product a couple years ago. I had a brown recluse bite that grew into a pretty large wound on my ankle and it got infected with an antibiotic resistant organism. I had an IV put in and self administered some very expensive medication 3x a day for a couple weeks. The infected tissue was right against my ankle bone and my doctor warned me if the bone got infected we'd probably be looking at an amputation.

The medication worked and the infection cleared up but the wound was stubborn to heal. My doctor wanted to me to put medical grade honey on it but I asked if there was a vegan alternative and he prescribed me one. Later on he gave me product he described as a scaffolding for skin to grow on...it wasn't until I got home with it I realized it was collagen. I read up on it and in this product at least the collagen is harvested from the stomach lining of newborn calves. I would have asked for an alternative if I'd realized it was an animal product but it's not like I could return it and it was for a fairly serious medical issue.

I agree that if you want to go ahead with this procedure, if you feel ethically comfortable with it, then you should. It's not the kind of frivolous consumption driving the vast majority of animal abuse.

But learn as much as you can about where the collagen in this product/procedure comes from and how it's harvested. Most people remain willfully ignorant so they can eat their cheeseburgers guilt free. We should at least put the work in to learn the details of what precisely is done to animals on our behalf.
 
I used a medical collagen product a couple years ago. I had a brown recluse bite that grew into a pretty large wound on my ankle and it got infected with an antibiotic resistant organism. I had an IV put in and self administered some very expensive medication 3x a day for a couple weeks. The infected tissue was right against my ankle bone and my doctor warned me if the bone got infected we'd probably be looking at an amputation.

The medication worked and the infection cleared up but the wound was stubborn to heal. My doctor wanted to me to put medical grade honey on it but I asked if there was a vegan alternative and he prescribed me one. Later on he gave me product he described as a scaffolding for skin to grow on...it wasn't until I got home with it I realized it was collagen. I read up on it and in this product at least the collagen is harvested from the stomach lining of newborn calves. I would have asked for an alternative if I'd realized it was an animal product but it's not like I could return it and it was for a fairly serious medical issue.

I agree that if you want to go ahead with this procedure, if you feel ethically comfortable with it, then you should. It's not the kind of frivolous consumption driving the vast majority of animal abuse.

But learn as much as you can about where the collagen in this product/procedure comes from and how it's harvested. Most people remain willfully ignorant so they can eat their cheeseburgers guilt free. We should at least put the work in to learn the details of what precisely is done to animals on our behalf.
Thank you, I had no idea it could come from calves!! I try to judge no one, if you feel meat is important for your health, that's your choice, but people who remain willfully ignorant, while actively causing harm, make me so mad, I want to weep. Do it if you are going to, but don't deceive yourself. The harm is done whether we acknowledge it or not.

Thank you for your reply!
 
I got a haircut today and they always try to use styling products so they can sell me a bottle at checkout. I usually decline but figured what the hell...as soon as she starts working the beard oil in tells me how great the collagen is for my skin :mad: can't let your vegan guard down for a second in this world!