Is veganism a religion?

[fakei]

If something is a fact, then it is by definition, true. i.e. A truth.
Science is how we find truth. The empirical method. Logic.
Philosophy is about ideas, concepts and how they hang together.
Religion promotes faith in non provable claims outside the realms of reality.

Logic and empirical science are two different things.

Empirical science doesn't work like math and logic where you are supposed to be able to prove something is true; you are able to do so by assuming some things to be true beforehand. Nevertheless you have the example of Euclides 5th postulante with which many theorems were proved, but which has raised doubts, and changing the postulate led to other forms of geometry. I believe Sir Roger Penrose gives other examples where things are not so black and white in exact sciences.

For a thing to be true it has to be true always, today, tomorrow, ever. You cannot classify an animal and then 50 years latter find out he should be classified differently, and not be sure if 50 years latter he will not get yet another classification and call this the truth.

BTW- it's not me saying this, science does not claim to deliver the true.

It tries to study reality, so in its way way one may say is trying to approach the Truth.

 

[g0rph]

Logic and empirical science are two different things.

That's why I put them separately.

Empirical science doesn't work like math and logic where you are supposed to be able to prove something is true; you are able to do so by assuming some things to be true beforehand. Nevertheless you have the example of Euclides 5th postulante with which many theorems were proved, but which has raised doubts, and changing the postulate led to other forms of geometry. I believe Sir Roger Penrose gives other examples where things are not so black and white in exact sciences.

For a thing to be true it has to be true always, today, tomorrow, ever. You cannot classify an animal and then 50 years latter find out he should be classified differently, and not be sure if 50 years latter he will not get yet another classification and call this the truth.

Classifications aren't really a subject for "truth". They are man-made descriptions only.

BTW- it's not me saying this, science does not claim to deliver the true.

It tries to study reality, so in its way way one may say is trying to approach the Truth.

Science doesn't need to claim to deliver the truth.
But it tells us facts about nature and the universe.
For me, that is truth.

But you use a capital T for truth. For me that hints at some mystical "truth"...
So I am not really sure what you're saying.
We are at polar opposites of our understanding of reality.

 

[fakei]

That's why I put them separately.

Classifications aren't really a subject for "truth". They are man-made descriptions only.

Science doesn't need to claim to deliver the truth.
But it tells us facts about nature and the universe.
For me, that is truth.

For me all you are describing are beliefs, they may be better justified, but nonetheless beliefs.

But you use a capital T for truth. For me that hints at some mystical "truth"...
So I am not really sure what you're saying.
We are at polar opposites of our understanding of reality.

I use capital letters when referring to the ultimate reality.

 

[g0rph]

For me all you are describing are beliefs, they may be better justified, but nonetheless beliefs.

Nonsense.
The moon orbits the Earth. The Earth orbits the Sun. They are facts, not beliefs. Both scientific discoveries.
Germs cause disease. We can look at them under a microscope. Facts, not beliefs.

I use capital letters when referring to the ultimate reality.

Yes, I thought as much. To me that's a supernatural concept. i.e. Not a real thing. Like gods, demons, ghosts...
I base my life on reality, not wishful thinking.

 

[fakei]

Nonsense.
The moon orbits the Earth. The Earth orbits the Sun. They are facts, not beliefs. Both scientific discoveries.

For a long time people had the perception that the Sun was moving around the Earth now the technology led to the conclusion that Earth is rotating around the Sun, but that is still on the domain of perception, not of absolute truth.

Germs cause disease. We can look at them under a microscope. Facts, not beliefs.
Yes, I thought as much. To me that's a supernatural concept. i.e. Not a real thing. Like gods, demons, ghosts...
I base my life on reality, not wishful thinking.

It's clear that you hold this POV as very important to you and don't want to disrupt it. Let's agree on disagreeing.

 

[g0rph]

For a long time people had the perception that the Sun was moving around the Earth now the technology led to the conclusion that Earth is rotating around the Sun, but that is still on the domain of perception, not of absolute truth.

No. It's reality. Perception was certainly the case until we proved otherwise.

It's clear that you hold this POV as very important to you and don't want to disrupt it. Let's agree on disagreeing.

Facts and truth are important yes.

 

[weganpolska]

Of course not. Veganism is a rationally grounded choice, based on science and common sense.

 

[Lou]

Of course not. Veganism is a rationally grounded choice, based on science and common sense.

maybe not of course not. of course its different but on the other hand there are some commonalities. Many people, including some vegans get it confused.

some vegans won't eat an impossible burger at Burger King because its cooked on the same grill as meat. Now I get it that SOME people claim they can taste the animal fat... but I don't think most can. The important point is that contamination doesn't hurt any animals. it reminds me of Jewish law about being kosher and using different cooking utensils. I think other religions have something like that too.

 

[silva]

maybe not of course not. of course its different but on the other hand there are some commonalities. Many people, including some vegans get it confused.

some vegans won't eat an impossible burger at Burger King because its cooked on the same grill as meat. Now I get it that SOME people claim they can taste the animal fat... but I don't think most can. The important point is that contamination doesn't hurt any animals. it reminds me of Jewish law about being kosher and using different cooking utensils. I think other religions have something like that too.

That still has nothing to do with religion. What are we worshiping ?
Taste is my reason for questioning the grill, and definitely why I won't eat fries/chips in fish fry oil!
Ethics/morals are not religious or spiritual beliefs

 

[Ruthie]

The vegans on this forum would probably say that veganism isn't a religion as it isn't based on any false beliefs. But that's exactly what members of other (traditional) religions also think! Non-vegans tend to think that veganism is irrational, just like non-members of a religion think it is irrational. Vegans consider themselves to be morally superior to non-vegans, again just like members of a religion who think they're more moral than non-members.

So, is veganism a religion?

Er, excuse me but please don't lump all vegans together. We are as diverse as any other group of people. I do not consider myself "morally superior " to anyone, even though l have a wish that others be kinder to all beings.
I follow my ethical core values - that is the lifestyle l choose. That can never be "irrational", because it isn't a mental concept-only mental concepts can ever be considered "irrational" .. I go by my innermost feelings, not anything conceptual .

Religions are based on rules and concepts devised by others - or thought to have been devised by others - my way of living comes from my heart and my own experiences.
It seems that you are caught up in concepts and the judgemental behaviour of others ( religious or otherwise ).Try not to make conclusions about whole groups of people. That's where racism and other bigotry comes in- l'm sure you don't wish to be like that.
We are different personalities.

Cheers from Ruthie

 

[IndianVegan]

@Ruthie Do you disagree that vegans are more moral than non vegans? (I don’t claim to be a saint; I was non vegan most of my life.) And I never said veganism was irrational; I said non vegans think it is—why else would they continue to eat meat?

 

[VegetableLiker]

C'mon my guy, give us a little credit MKAY!? It's not like we're out here WORSHIPPING vegetables or some cooky nonsense like that! Veganism is just a lifestyle and that's all there is to it. When you think about it everyone has different idea about what they choose to eat, some choose not to eat fast-food , some choose not to eat meat, and some people choose not to eat whatever else, and everyone has their reasons! I try and make it a point to never judge others, based on what they eat, and hey, maybe some of my fellow vegans can get a little high and mighty once in a while, but that doesn't mean we all think we're morally superior. This idea that being vegan is a religion, THAT IS JUST NUTTY MY MAN!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

 

[LoreD]

C'mon my guy, give us a little credit MKAY!? It's not like we're out here WORSHIPPING vegetables or some cooky nonsense like that! Veganism is just a lifestyle and that's all there is to it. When you think about it everyone has different idea about what they choose to eat, some choose not to eat fast-food , some choose not to eat meat, and some people choose not to eat whatever else, and everyone has their reasons! I try and make it a point to never judge others, based on what they eat, and hey, maybe some of my fellow vegans can get a little high and mighty once in a while, but that doesn't mean we all think we're morally superior. This idea that being vegan is a religion, THAT IS JUST NUTTY MY MAN!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

An ethical philosophy doesn't equate with religion. Many people who have no religious beliefs have a solid ethical core.

Just because I don't believe in robbing banks doesn't mean I worship banks.

 

[VegetableLiker]

An ethical philosophy doesn't equate with religion. Many people who have no religious beliefs have a solid ethical core.

Just because I don't believe in robbing banks doesn't mean I worship banks.

EXACTLY! Couldn't have said it better myself, VEGANS FOR THE WIN!

 

[g0rph]

Our spud, who art in oven,
Cauliflower be thy name.
Thy kingdom yam,
Thy turnip be done,
On earth as it is in Seven-Eleven.

Give us this day our daily breadfruit,
And forgive us our peas,
As we forgive those who squash against us.

Lead us not into tempeh-tation,
But deliver us from weevils.

For thine is the corncob,
And the flour, and the gourd,
For ever and ever,
Amen.

 

[VegetableLiker]

Our spud, who art in oven,
Cauliflower be thy name.
Thy kingdom yam,
Thy turnip be done,
On earth as it is in Seven-Eleven.

Give us this day our daily breadfruit,
And forgive us our peas,
As we forgive those who squash against us.

Lead us not into tempeh-tation,
But deliver us from weevils.

For thine is the corncob,
And the flour, and the gourd,
For ever and ever,
Amen.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! Okay, DUDE, now THIS got a good solid chuckle out of me! you are KILLING ME MY DUDE!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Who ever said vegans don't know how to have a good laugh?

 

[Ruthie]

Our spud, who art in oven,
Cauliflower be thy name.
Thy kingdom yam,
Thy turnip be done,
On earth as it is in Seven-Eleven.

Give us this day our daily breadfruit,
And forgive us our peas,
As we forgive those who squash against us.

Lead us not into tempeh-tation,
But deliver us from weevils.

For thine is the corncob,
And the flour, and the gourd,
For ever and ever,
Amen.

Oh very very funny - I love this ... Thank you for having such a wonderful sense of humour ... which is sometimes lacking in those who think they are more "moral" than others .. ( Has anyone ever watched the religious preachers on tv ?)

Thank you again ,
big hugs from Ruthie

 

[Ruthie]

@Ruthie Do you disagree that vegans are more moral than non vegans? (I don’t claim to be a saint; I was non vegan most of my life.) And I never said veganism was irrational; I said non vegans think it is—why else would they continue to eat meat?

Please don't confuse "moral" with ethical .. They are not the same .. I feel that most vegans live their lives from their ethical core-values .. That's it .
Have a great life ..
Cheers from Ruthie

 

[KLS52]

This prompted me to look up morals vs ethics. Very interesting.

What's the Difference Between Ethics and Morals?​

Morals refer to a sense of right or wrong. Ethics, on the other hand, refer more to principles of "good" versus "evil" that are generally agreed upon by a community.


What are some examples of morals and ethics? Morals can include not lying, being generous, being patient, and being loyal. Ethics can include the ideals of honesty, integrity, respect, and loyalty.

What Is The Difference Between Morality and Ethics?

Learn the difference between morals and ethics, and how each of these can impact your mental health. We also discuss how to identify your own ethics vs. morals.

www.verywellmind.com

 

[Lou]

As I said before I don't think veganism is a religion - it's a lifestyle. But I do understand the confusion.
Even some vegans confuse the two and many non-vegans don't see the distinctions.
@KLS52 posted a scholarly article on the difference between ethics and morals. I confess that I confuse the two frequently and use the words interchangeably. And it still doesn't help that much with the lifestyle vs religion thing.