D
Deleted member 20024
Guest
Yes it's true - but if we think about any matter like this, then anything we have any opinion about can be considered as a belief and thus can get people accused of following it religiously.You still have to believe that animal lives have intrinsic value to the extent that it matters to us. Otherwise, you wouldn't have a pressing reason to avoid exploiting animals.
I know this belief probably sounds intuitively obvious to most people here, almost like a fact, but unfortunately I don't think it properly fits in the category of facts. It's not a 2+2=4 kind of knowledge which you can conclude if you learn basic mathematics. It's not a piece of knowledge like "the Earth is the third planet from the Sun" which can be arrived at through observation and discussion with fellow observers.
Instead, I think it's knowledge you most often arrive at through subjective experience combined with empathy. Maybe after playing with pet dogs or cats, a young child comes to the realisation that they are really fond of dogs and cats. That they see themselves in the cat/dog. That they are fundamentally alike. That in the same way they want to protect their friends and family from harm and suffering, they want the same protection for their pets. And then they realise their cat or dog is not much different from other animals. And so on.
However, this isn't knowledge that can be passed on to other people as easily as fact-type knowledge.
If one does not beat their children, is this because of a belief that nobody should be exposed to physical punishment? Would people debate that not beating your kids is a religion?
If one does not own slaves, is this because of a belief that taking human beings for "speaking tools" would be just unacceptable and inhumane? Would this start a debate about how not owning slaves is a religion?
If one does not get involved in online trolling, is this because of a belief that using internet anonimity for such purposes would be a very cowardly and pathetic thing to do? Would people discuss that staying away from deliberately annoying others is a religion, since you have to believe you have no valid reasons to make other people irritated?
I hope this was not too offensive or hurtful.
Yes, for most of us this goes without any further explanation, but for many indoctrinated carnists it really looks like a religion - or sometimes they would even accuse us of being in a religious cult. Somewhere I read "when I went vegan, people kept asking me if I'd joined a cult - I told them I had just left one".
This is true, subjective experience and empathy is needed for getting the idea of veganism.
Very good that you mention cats and dogs - there are many people who consider themselves to be animal lovers because they share their lives with cats and dogs, yet they are not concerned about eating meat, eggs and dairy. Speciesism at its worst.
Children are indeed very open - until they become indoctrinated and unlearn this openness and empathy.
Yeah, I think all of us have experienced this problem: this knowledge and understanding is much harder to pass on to others than any other kind of knowledge. Veganism actually contradicts everything we grew up with and believed to be alright.