Is vegan church legit?

btcbob

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Saw them on reddit vegan group, anybody have any experience? www.vegchurch.com
Just curious, not sure what to think of them. Should anyone get involved?
Thanks!
 

Damo

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Don’t worry, our vegan sister or brother, we are not here to judge, we are here to help! Remember, confession is the first step for redemption.
"vegan church" ? I think veganism is a way of life and not a religion, sorry "confessing" for accidentally eating an animal product makes me cringe who are you going to be confessing to?

A vegan sin they have committed doesn’t mean they are not vegans.
I feel people are way more concerned with the title than the definition, why call it a vegan sin? Sorry just yikes, a vegan church sounds stupid to me.

Also welcome to the forums!
 

Forest Nymph

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There is a wealth of religious history to people being vegan or strict vegetarian including (but not limited to) Jains, Buddhists, Taoists, Krishna Consciousness...and...wait for it....early Christians. YES! In Genesis, we were all Created to be vegans and no one ate animals before the Fall of Man, in fact the Dead Sea Scrolls explain that humans were taught to "harass, molest, annoy, consume" animals by demons in the Books of Enoch (that's what the most recent Noah is about, just FYI, Aronofsky is atheist, but he was raised very Jewish and he addresses vegetarianism/animal rights via Noah and environmentalism/climate change via Mother! with a religious angle he terms as his Jewish heritage or ancestral mythos...Mother! makes a hell of a lot more sense if you have read the Bible).

Also, many 7th Day Adventists are vegan by default, or at least vegetarian. Many of the oldest "faux meat" or "meat analogue" companies are 7th Day Adventist, and we owe them a wealth of gratitude for popularizing breakfast cereal via Kellogg's and items like veggie burgers and veggie dogs through old corps like Loma Linda and Morning Star Farms which were thriving long before Follow Your Heart, Just foods, and Gardein.

I am totally okay with there being a vegan church, in fact I encourage it whole heartedly. One of my fave YouTube vegans goes by Ghost Vegan or Ghost, and though he's atheist he's made arguments for vegans being granted religious protection in the West, due to the rampant humanism that invades post-modern Western culture. He says there's not a real way animals can get rights without vegan humans having rights first, that the animals will have rights through us, in the context of our society, like Muslims or any other minority group.
 

Jai

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There is a wealth of religious history to people being vegan or strict vegetarian including (but not limited to) Jains, Buddhists, Taoists, Krishna Consciousness...and...wait for it....early Christians.
Having done some cursory investigation into Buddhism & a plant based diet, I'm not so sure you're correct. There seems to be suggestions that Siddhartha (ie; the 'Buddha') himself did not promote a non-meat diet, rather that the animals should not be killed directly by him or his early adherents. It has also been suggested in canonical text that Muslims would be tasked with the slaughter of animals, so as to absolve Monks from the edict of Five Precepts that suggests 'do no harm to living beings'.

The 14th Dalai Lama, arguably today's most eminent leader of Buddhist tradition, also eats meat, citing health issues as a reason for the dietary choice.

And..... if we are to look at Thailand, a nation that is perhaps the largest Buddhist concentration of all countries (over 60 million adherents), Veganism is mostly unheard of, in fact Thai people find it difficult to comprehend.

Having been involved with a (Western) Buddhist community in times past, in which Ordained members & Mitras *DO* strive for (at least) vegetarianism, and some living a vegan diet, I've often asked the question 'where does this edict arise from' and not been able to find any satisfactory answer that can be backed up by historical evidence in Buddhist canon.
 

Nekodaiden

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There is a wealth of religious history to people being vegan or strict vegetarian including (but not limited to) Jains, Buddhists, Taoists, Krishna Consciousness...and...wait for it....early Christians. YES! In Genesis, we were all Created to be vegans and no one ate animals before the Fall of Man, in fact the Dead Sea Scrolls explain that humans were taught to "harass, molest, annoy, consume" animals by demons in the Books of Enoch (that's what the most recent Noah is about, just FYI, Aronofsky is atheist, but he was raised very Jewish and he addresses vegetarianism/animal rights via Noah and environmentalism/climate change via Mother! with a religious angle he terms as his Jewish heritage or ancestral mythos...Mother! makes a hell of a lot more sense if you have read the Bible).

Also, many 7th Day Adventists are vegan by default, or at least vegetarian. Many of the oldest "faux meat" or "meat analogue" companies are 7th Day Adventist, and we owe them a wealth of gratitude for popularizing breakfast cereal via Kellogg's and items like veggie burgers and veggie dogs through old corps like Loma Linda and Morning Star Farms which were thriving long before Follow Your Heart, Just foods, and Gardein.

I am totally okay with there being a vegan church, in fact I encourage it whole heartedly. One of my fave YouTube vegans goes by Ghost Vegan or Ghost, and though he's atheist he's made arguments for vegans being granted religious protection in the West, due to the rampant humanism that invades post-modern Western culture. He says there's not a real way animals can get rights without vegan humans having rights first, that the animals will have rights through us, in the context of our society, like Muslims or any other minority group.
Genesis also describes the moon as a light, not a giant rock - and attached to the firmament ( a barrier in the sky separating waters above and below ) which means that according to the book there is water above the heavens, not "space". The idea of water above the firmament or heavens is also supported by psalm 148:4 - "Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.". Further it is supported biblically in the story of Noah's flood - where the floodgates of heaven were opened. In the book of Enoch, the sun is a disc, not a giant ball of fire in space, and it moves from east to west through different portals in the heavens. Enoch also describes the earth as having "foundations" and the heavens having "pillars", as well as the earth having "ends".

As you have elsewhere mocked the ideas pertaining to flat earth (close sun and moon, close stars, waters above heavens are all related) and believe we are on a giant ball spinning in space - it's probably best not to advertise your scorn of the former ideas and yet also laud the books that support them just because they also support veganism in certain places.
 

Nekodaiden

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I have been thinking more about this, and I am still comfortable in saying that Veganism is absolutely not a religion nor should it be. Religion(s) involve beliefs/directions about all kinds of human life, and not only our relationships to animals. They often involve power structures and places of power (popes, imams, deacons, bishops etc) that in my opinion have no place in veganism.

That being said, the longer I remain a vegan and the more I read of my own faith's ancient heritage (Christianity), I find it compelling that what is called "Vegetarianism", or strict dietary vegetarianism (abstinence from all animal products in the diet) was definitely part of early Christianity. It was NOT part of the "Gentile" church that Paul speaks to, as he opposes it. But it was part of what the original Apostles believed and practiced. I have read parts of the so called Gospel of the Nazirenes and while I do think there are human additions in places, I found many parts extremely compelling - and it is most definitely a vegan document. The actual Gospel is lost except in fragments and the writings of some church "fathers" who quote those who follow it (in opposition to them). From my study it is undeniably clear that the Nararean "sect" was both vegan and totally abstained from alcohol.

Also from study has come to light that many of prophets sent to teach Israel (and were rejected) also preached against animal sacrifices. There appears to be a running theme in many passages that the animal sacrifices were later additions to the Torah, and not intended at all.
 

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Its already been abandoned.
 

Ger

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If you believe in Bible teachings, then it does appear that, originally anyway, God did mean for humans to live a vegan lifestyle. It says so in the book of Genesis.

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." -- Genesis 1:29 (KJV)
 

Lou

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That is the thing about that old testament. you can find something in it for everyone. However, there is so much in it that you have to willfully ignore. I can't see using the old testament to justify Anything.


It is both amazing and disturbing how relevant this show is even twenty years later.

Oh! and more to the point, I don't think the "Vegan Church" was about Christianity or the old testament. I think its main intended purpose was to help vegans who felt bad about cheating or whatever by confessing. Taking a page out or the Roman Catholic's playbooks or something.
 
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Emma JC

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Someone on the reading thread recommended Philip Pullman as an author and so I did pick up some of his books and one that I read was The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ. It fits into this discussion beautifully.

Emma JC
 

Emma JC

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That is the thing about that old testament. you can find something in it for everyone. However, there is so much in it that you have to willfully ignore. I can't see using the old testament to justify Anything.


It is both amazing and disturbing how relevant this show is even twenty years later.
Thank you for that @Lou - I have never seen that before and I think it is awesome!! I was brought up in that old/new testament world and my family is still there so I appreciate the context.

Emma JC
 

Ger

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Oh! and more to the point, I don't think the "Vegan Church" was about Christianity or the old testament. I think its main intended purpose was to help vegans who felt bad about cheating or whatever by confessing. Taking a page out or the Roman Catholic's playbooks or something.
I did not know that. I thought that the "Vegan Church" was a regular Christian church that happened to promote veganism. I quoted Genesis 1:29 (KJV) because I was addressing Christians who do believe in the teachings found in the Bible. I, myself, do not belong to any church. I, myself, do not wholly believe anything that it says in the Bible. I was just pointing out to Christians that their Bible supports veganism as well. Anyway, just to be clear, I have my own reasons for being an egg-eating vegetarian.
 

Lou

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Someone on the reading thread recommended Philip Pullman as an author and so I did pick up some of his books and one that I read was The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ. It fits into this discussion beautifully.

Emma JC
I think that was me! I just finished his Book of Dust. My library has The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ in hardcover. And i read the summary and it sounds just excellent. It will have to wait for me, tho. I have a bit of a backlog again from the library.
 
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Lou

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I did not know that. I thought that the "Vegan Church" was a regular Christian church that happened to promote veganism. I quoted Genesis 1:29 (KJV) because I was addressing Christians who do believe in the teachings found in the Bible. I, myself, do not belong to any church. I, myself, do not wholly believe anything that it says in the Bible. I was just pointing out to Christians that their Bible supports veganism as well. Anyway, just to be clear, I have my own reasons for being an egg-eating vegetarian.
I am an atheist. And was brought up Jewish. But i still don't understand it when Christians quote the old testament. Didn't Jesus or somebody (John, Paul, Geroge or Ringo? ) say on a hill or a mount or something, that now that Jesus has arrived we can just put away the old testament?

Anyway from what I understand the new testament seems pretty benign with all kinds of being nice to people and a lot less of bathing in blood and salting the earth.
 
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Ger

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I am an atheist. And was brought up Jewish. But i still don't understand it when Christians quote the old testament.
Well, that's the thing. People tend to quote anything as long as it supports their opinion. Quoting the old testament is no worse than getting a fictional TV character to back you up.
 

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I was just pointing out to Christians that their Bible supports veganism as well.
That is true as far as an isolated verse or two, in reference to the ancient past or a future in paradise, but as far as it pertains to people living in between those times, like Jesus or us, it isn't true that the Bible as a whole supports veganism. It supports carnism. Don't take my word for it. Here is an evangelical source on the topic:


Most of the evangelicals that I have asked about this say that the human body changed after Noah's food, when mankind is given permission to eat meat, and they claim people reaching ages in excess of 900 years prior to the flood, as recorded in the Genesis, is evidence of this. They claim that post flood, humans need meat for optimal health.
 

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Also, if you believe it is immoral to use animals for food, you are most likely under demonic influence.

 

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Well, I would have walked out of that service.

Here's the challenge when speaking to anyone that believes every word of the bible ... they believe every word of the bible, unless it isn't convenient for them. Yes, they allow is no wiggle room (unless it is something they wish to be different) and there are no excuses (unless they wish there to be).

You will notice that the women in the audience are not wearing hats or other hair coverings, this is commanded in both Corinthians and Timothy in the bible and there are still many churches, groups etc that still do. The folks in the video don't wish to so they ignore or otherwise justify it. The Muslims do, the Quakers, Amish, Mennonites do and they do it all day every day.

Demons.... don't get me started. :(

I stopped watching halfway through and wrote the above and then decided to click and hold my nose and hear the rest. Quote from the speaker "They say that not eating meat will reverse the effects of sin". NO! they say "not eating meat can reverse or prevent heart disease" which you have as a result of eating meat in the first place.

Emma JC