How do you respond to:"I know,but I just don't care though"

[Summy03]

I was talking to a classmate about veganism and how the industry works, how animals are tortured and suffocated and stabbed and she claimed to already know what happens so obviously i ask her whats stopping her from going vegan and she says she 'just doesn't care'?? then she goes: "farm animals aren't cute" and then it's back to "i know what happens but i don't care" (Honestly i was holding back anger at this point).
I tried to get the truth out of her and confront her about her disregard in all of the ways i know but she wouldn't budge, i mean it did transfer to her eating what her parents buy and stuff but when i challenged her on that she couldn't answer me so it went back to "i don't care"
Honestly, surprisingly enough I've not come across someone with her excuse before, i really don't know how to respond, I've tried linking what she does seem to care about (if there even is anything) but it hasn't worked. I'm quite annoyed that i don't have a good enough response, can anyone shed some light on this?

 

[silva]

I know many people who've watched documentaries like Earthlings and Meet your Meat, as well as those focused on health like Forks over Knives. They also don't care. They can talk about them, saying "oh my god", "I could not believe that, who would do that?". BUT. They want to eat meat, drink dairy. It isn't enough.
I make quips turning the tables when appropriate. If someone gets sick I won't hold back comments like "yeah but that burger was worth it am I right??"

They say they care, that they don't want animals to be abused, but, it's very apparent that they don't care. It's very apparent anyone who eats meat or consumes dairy doesn't care. This person is at least being honest. You really can't not know about the industry if you're an adult

 

[Emma JC]

@Summy03 you are very wise for such a young person and many of us did not have this exposure to veganism at such a young age

For many it is a journey to get here and it takes a number of different life learnings to do so. I am one of those people who learned about the animal industry a long time ago and I cared very much and yet I fell of the wagon, more than once. Ashamedly, it was for my health that made me make the final decision and hearing it presented in a different way, by someone and it finally clicked.

Now I could never go back, not just because of my health but because of the animals and the environment.

So be patient with your classmate and know that you have given her the first nudge and it may take a few more yet.

Emma JC

 

[David3]

I think that everybody cares, at least a little bit.

The "I don't care" response can really mean, "I don't like being told what to do", or "I'm tired of everyone telling me how to live my life", or "I am overwhelmed with other tasks in my life, and I don't have time for more".
.

 

[beancounter]

If someone says I don't care, then simply say nothing.

They are not worth any more of your additional time or effort.

You can't "convert" everyone, and you'll drive yourself crazy trying.

 

[Sax]

There's no silver bullet that will force a moral epiphany on people. If they say something like that it means they're uncomfortable with the conversation and are looking for a way to shut it down.

When they say they don't care they're denying their own conscience. Ask them how they'd feel if it was done to their cat or dog, or if it was done for sexual pleasure instead of food pleasure.

I disagree that these people are a waste of time...they're basically admitting that veganism is morally and factually correct. They'll probably just shift to some other form of denial but I don't think they're less get-able than people making other stupid anti-vegan arguments (and they're all stupid).

 

[Forest Nymph]

I have to deal with a lot of variations on this, from people in my undergrad major being so depressed from climate change that they hope everyone dies really fast (especially humans, they feel bad for the animals, but they want the humans to die so bad even more than I do (amazingly) that they are willing to sacrifice some species in hope that eventually it will birth a new Pleistocene....and as a scientist, can I just say, the Pleistocene is VERY attractive and followed a much warmer planet than we have now, and a mass extinction of dinos in the Jurassic/Triassic. I love the Pleistocene very much I would think a lot of vegans do, or animal rights vegetarians, lots of big cute hairy mammals stepping on ugly tiny humans). ...to people like you describe, who just don't care, because they're stupid. I think it helps if you admit that they're low-average IQ or low EQ people. People who don't care either have low EQ (but often young intellectuals) or lowish IQ (still average, but not terribly bright, like some of your cousins or childhood neighbors, just those people who watch the Kardashians....they aren't retarded and can pass driver's ed...but we all have our doubts, sis). THAT HELPS. I don't care what the Internet says or what political correctness says. It helps me to remember a lot of people are less intelligent than me, and other people are more intelligent than me. You are lost, though, when you forget other people "are more intelligent than me." That sets you up for a Dunning-Kruger dumb-fest, but as long as you remember humans were learning things in different races on different continents for thousands of years before you were born, and some are still physicists, you'll be ok! The worst people I've met, tbh, are people who think they are smarter than climatologists with "common sense" or people who have so much "empathy" that they enable these trash humans. I am just like, stop enabling them, if Jesus isn't coming, who cares if we tell them they're wrong?

So I don't think I've given a response to this one, because there's not an easy answer. Intelligent and highly educated people who want all humans to die (and don't care if some species die with them, out of kindness for the species in their view) are pretty much unreachable. These people are smart, they know climate change is happening, they know we have the sixth mass extinction, and they are willing to sacrifice a few other species if humans die oh-plz-god-plz-kill-humans-and-be-wooly-mammoths-and-smilodon-again!!! I get their point of view. I don't agree with them, because all humans aren't equally responsible for climate change, and I do not agree with "sacrificing" other species to human death (no matter how initially appealing). Those people are lost causes though. Maybe you'll catch one and change their mind in an off-moment, but these people are gone, and they're as smart or smarter than you, so stop wasting your time.

The hypocrites, the people who say farm animals aren't cute, or we can't do this because people in food deserts can't be vegan, my really nice vegan friend says to treat these people like children. She says it helps to frame them as children. When you think of them as being childlike, instead of being morons (because likely they have average, even if low-average, intelligence) you might have more empathy for them and be able to get through to them. God bless those vegans. God bless those holy vessels of kindness. I'm not one of them.

I'm here to talk to those with ears to hear, like Jesus. Ironically, he didn't have time for their ******** either.

 

[Max Caulfield]

Actually, "I don't care" when statement is true argument is pretty much ultimate defense that can't be pierced.Essentially, it's rejection of your values and as such morality you've built upon such values. Even if you found contradiction in principles person could claim they just don't care about not being a hypocrite. You can't really do much beside perhaps attempting to deploy force or threat of it against person. Think about junkie that isn't concerned about their health and living long, caring about nothing but engaging their addiction. You aren't convincing such person to go sober. Maybe you could condition person to care through some methodology but that would probably require having significant amount on influence on person life to pull off that you likely wouldn't have.

 

[Poppy]

The only thing I can think of is to perhaps come at this from a different angle - not animal suffering, but maybe climate change, women's rights, or (gah!) health. If this classmate has interests in any of these areas, the argument for going vegan can hardly be dismissed.

But the truth might just be that she isn't interested in making such a drastic change in her life. It can be hard to persuade someone set in her ways. Just keep doing what makes you feel uplifted and serves your purpose in this world and know that your example will work its way into her subconscious mind and make things a bit uncomfortable, perhaps to the point of change...someday. The truth is, we can never not know what we now know.

 

[Kellyr]

If you're baffled by people's ability to not care, then clearly you've never crossed paths with a sociopath.

I find trying to force others to care about the same things I do to be an exercise in futility. Put your energy where it does some good - making good choices for yourself, being a source of knowledge for those who have sincere interest, finding other friends who feel the same and will champion the same cause, etc.

Sure - you can sow the seed with a little information about what goes on, but you've got to leave it alone after. I've heard this analogy used before - if you sow a seed, it won't germinate if you keep digging it back up and poking at it all the time.

 

[Summy03]

If you're baffled by people's ability to not care, then clearly you've never crossed paths with a sociopath.

I find trying to force others to care about the same things I do to be an exercise in futility. Put your energy where it does some good - making good choices for yourself, being a source of knowledge for those who have sincere interest, finding other friends who feel the same and will champion the same cause, etc.

Sure - you can sow the seed with a little information about what goes on, but you've got to leave it alone after. I've heard this analogy used before - if you sow a seed, it won't germinate if you keep digging it back up and poking at it all the time.

I see what you're saying, I'm not baffled but I've just never come across this kind of person in this particular context in my relatively short time as a vegan. Putting my energy into the people who want to listen is great and I do often do so, but the ignorant ones are who I want to get through to, because there's so ******* many of them, there must be a way to hit a nerve, I suppose sowing the seed is a good idea, but sometimes a bird comes for the seed in the form of denial and then my efforts were worthless.

 

[Summy03]

There's no silver bullet that will force a moral epiphany on people. If they say something like that it means they're uncomfortable with the conversation and are looking for a way to shut it down.

When they say they don't care they're denying their own conscience. Ask them how they'd feel if it was done to their cat or dog, or if it was done for sexual pleasure instead of food pleasure.

I disagree that these people are a waste of time...they're basically admitting that veganism is morally and factually correct. They'll probably just shift to some other form of denial but I don't think they're less get-able than people making other stupid anti-vegan arguments (and they're all stupid).

Yeah you're right. I did try asking her how she would feel if it were her cats and the response was the same: "I don't like dogs, I don't care" it's denial but completely shuts you off so I didn't know where to go from there which is why I got a bit frustrated I suppose.
I'll probably just keep at it but gradually, maybe less directly n possibly buy her some premium vegan chocolate for the cause
Thanks for this x

 

[Summy03]

The only thing I can think of is to perhaps come at this from a different angle - not animal suffering, but maybe climate change, women's rights, or (gah!) health. If this classmate has interests in any of these areas, the argument for going vegan can hardly be dismissed.

But the truth might just be that she isn't interested in making such a drastic change in her life. It can be hard to persuade someone set in her ways. Just keep doing what makes you feel uplifted and serves your purpose in this world and know that your example will work its way into her subconscious mind and make things a bit uncomfortable, perhaps to the point of change...someday. The truth is, we can never not know what we now know.

To approach it from another angle would be disingenuous, for me at least. And i don't think I have enough knowledge on veganism for either the climate or health to do so. But I agree, she probably just doesn't want to change, she mentioned that she eats what her family eats so maybe the family is the issue after all. Thanks for this insight x

 

[David3]

Almost everyone here used to be an omnivore. Were we deeply horrible people? No, probably not.

Arguing with someone just leaves them feeling cornered. No one appreciates that. People want to feel inspired, not criticized.
.

 

[Summy03]

@Summy03 you are very wise for such a young person and many of us did not have this exposure to veganism at such a young age

For many it is a journey to get here and it takes a number of different life learnings to do so. I am one of those people who learned about the animal industry a long time ago and I cared very much and yet I fell of the wagon, more than once. Ashamedly, it was for my health that made me make the final decision and hearing it presented in a different way, by someone and it finally clicked.

Now I could never go back, not just because of my health but because of the animals and the environment.

So be patient with your classmate and know that you have given her the first nudge and it may take a few more yet.

Emma JC

Thank you, i appreciate you saying that. And yeah, i really do feel lucky with all the exposure we have nowadays.
I get that it's a journey for many people, and i know the key thing is to stay calm because you cannot switch someone overnight but it just stays frustrating.
For me, (guilt being my primary emotion) there was no choice, and as soon as i knew what really went on, i couldn't carry on how i was anymore.
I know that it's different for everyone though, as you said, it took you hearing it presented in a different way to change.
So yeah, i need to be patient, thanks for the reminder x

 

[Jamie in Chile]

Some of it is down to speciesism. They might care if it were something about human beings. So push the speciesism angle maybe. Find out if they care about human issues.

Take a break and come back to the discussion, though. Don't be overbearing. At some point, you have to let it go if necessary.

 

[Second Summer]

I think there have been many good responses in this thread.

I wanted to add that the magnitude of the changes required in a person's life in order to go vegan and the consequences for them can be huge and daunting to contemplate. They may have to give up some of their favourite foods. Their families & friends might not approve, so it can lead to friction and exclusion at social events. Some younger people who still live with their parents may not really be in a position to choose a vegan lifestyle yet.

I wonder if some or all of this may be in the back of the mind of those who say "they don't care", or that it at least is lurking somewhere in their subconscious.

For most people, I think there are really only a few times in their lives when they are actually in a position to make such dramatic changes.

Fortunately, being vegan has become a lot easier in recent times thanks to a lot of new vegan products and vegan options at restaurants.

 

[Tom L.]

It is hard to understand that attitude... even though most people (at least the ones I know) feel that way.

I've always cared more about animals than most people I know do.... I honestly don't know why. Sure, our family had cats, and I knew a number of dogs in other families; there were also 2 squirrels who came to our back porch in the apartment house I was living in until I was 10. I think that's how I came to care about animals at an early age. At 16, I stopped eating meat; 4 years later I gave up fish; and quite some time later I went to work on stopping dairy and egg- but that was a much slower process because I found it harder.

These days, the only time I consume egg or dairy is when I buy last-date-of-sale, half-price (or less) baked goods which are still edible but are about to be thrown out. (Most of these things are vegan- but some aren't). My rationale is that the production of food causes animal death, and if consume food that would have gone to waste anyway, I'm not doing appreciable damage. (But... I wouldn't eat perfectly-edible meat or fish which was going to be discarded, although of course I'd be totally OK with giving it to a cat or dog unless there were bones which might harm them.... so I keep wondering if I'm being honest with myself.)

EDITED TO ADD: by "most people feel that way", I meant that most people I know are not pescetarian, vegetarian, or vegan. Many of them do care about animals to an extent; they just don't appear to be at least considering a pesc or veg diet. Maybe it's force of habit (which can be EXTREMELY hard for people to break out of- many of us persist in eating things that can sicken US!!! ...but of course people don't actually want to get sick....)

 

[beforewisdom]

You can't control other people.

You can ONLY hope to Influence them, maybe.

Many other people out there. If someone doesn't care don't waste time on them, move on to someone else.

 

[Gaspard]

If it is possible, it would be good to show her some vegan movies. And if she still don't care, maybe show her videos of vegans who cry in front of slaughter houses. I must say, I was quite insensible to animal exploitation as I grew up in a farm; but when I saw people crying in front of trucks (with the Animal Save Movement) I started to empathize more.
Often people who say "I don't care" actually mean that they do care but they don't want to talk about it.