How do you deal with ex-vegans?

This question keeps bothering me.

I really don't want to sound too negative or hurtful, but former vegans usually make me annoyed - because for me, veganism is more than something I'd temporarily put on.
I would not say "it's a lifelong engagement", because I don't even feel I've been engaged into anything. I just think this is what should be the norm. Not hurting animals. Not keeping them in captivity. Not exploiting them in any way. Not killing them when they aren't profitable any more. Not thinking our 10 minutes of enjoyment worth more than an animal's life of 8 weeks.

Now, I am trying my best to be careful and avoid rudeness, but I admit I can get really impatient when people give up veganism and use the cheapest excuses you could think of. I really don't know what to do.
I think you guys have heard many of these excuses.
Symptoms of deficiency - because taking the efforts to plan a really good vegan diet and doing some research about necessary supplements would be too demanding; claiming "this is just not for me" and using their blood group or Zodiac sign or MBTI personality type or anything in that direction to justify their quitting veganism; or doing the usual mental gymnastic by stating "there are many better ways of showing compassion to animals than not killing them", or "I go back to eating meat, eggs and dairy but I always, always buy from eco-bio shiny-happy rainbow farms where the animals are literally cuddled to death" and so on.

What annoys me most - I wonder if it's appropriate to mention it here? - is when people first announce their going vegan on social media, they tend to be vegan activists for a while, then they post about how they're not vegan anymore and give a detailed explanation on why they are no longer vegans.
This latter always makes me a bit sceptical or suspicious. Why do they feel the need of explaining themselves? Maybe they have some bad conscience about their decision and try to justify it to their followers?

The other thing I don't quite get is how "being a former vegan" might be the part of some people's identity. A cattle breeder calling themselves an "ex-vegan animal scientist" and the like. Sorry what? I don't find identifying myself as an "ex-carnist, ex-speciesist" necessary.

Yes I used to eat meat. Yes I used to be a vegetarian who believed giving up eating corpses was enough.
(Oh yes, I saw the very same when going vegetarian was a temporary trend.
I heard people say "I used to be a vegetarian but now I am back to eating meat because my SO needs meat", or - my ultimate favourite - "I used to be a vegetarian but later, at the cooking school, we had to taste everything".
My standard excuse for quitting vegetarianism is still "I used to be a vegetarian too but I recognized going vegan was the very best thing I could do.")

But I don't think what I used to be would define what I am - as of to-day.
Could somebody please explain to me how being an ex-something gives you an identity?

Sorry if this turned out to be an inconsistent rant. I hope I didn't violate any community rules, but I really need some advice on how not to get angry, what to do when you feel incredibly sad about this tendency, and how to react in a way that's not hurtful?
I think it’s important to remember that, while it still doesn’t make it justified, some people do actually at least think they have good reasons for not being vegan anymore. For example, rather than just the usual “being vegan made me ill” touted by someone not researching and following good vegan nutrition advice, someone might genuinely develop or deteriorate with a health issue/s that actually does make being vegan much more difficult, if not impossible, to be healthy with, and they may have to go back to being veggie or even eating meat again because it would be insanely difficult or even impossible for them to be vegan and not get very sick/die young. Like I said, this doesn’t make it justified, but supporting someone’s choices/actions and just understanding and respecting the choices for the reasons why they made those choices are different. Also, you can love the sinner without loving the sin. Whether you agree with someone or their behaviour or not, no matter how passionately opposed to someone’s choices you may be, I believe it’s important to still be kind, civil, compassionate and understanding towards them as a sentient being and to their issues. Don’t get me wrong, it’s very important to promote veganism and help animals and the planet, but it’s also important to be kind to those who are not vegan, especially if they have fallen on hard times with their mental/physical health.
For another example, I used to be vegan, and I keep trying. When I am vegan, I can be a very passionate vegan. I even started writing a book called “Why You Should Go Vegan”! However, I have also developed binge eating disorder and also OCD, which, combined, make it insanely difficult to go vegan and stay vegan, so I am mostly just veggie at the moment.
The best way to deal with them and get them to go vegan is to be kind, compassionate, positive, polite and civil to them, answering their questions and concerns in helpful, compassionate, understanding and kind ways, kindly supporting them to go vegan again, or to find ways in which they can go vegan again.
 
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Until people suffer from negative side-effects, are tired of the restrictive food choices and/or the next fad diet hype comes around.

Low-fat, low-carb, paleo, fruitarianism, macrobiotics, raw vegan, 80-10-10, keto, clean30, carnivore... some people have done it all.
Yes, some have tried several "diets", although vegan is not a diet. There is one couple on youtub who are carnivores.
He was vegan and then went in the opposite direction.
If someone has severe food allergies they need to find food that works for them. I would try "organic" and avoid pesticides
and other contaminants in plant foods, maybe gluten free.
However, humans who eat animals are feeding off the plants the animals ate, plus their hormones, adrenaline, and stress
hotmones which act like a stimulating drug in our body. I would say carni's are addicts. Plants do not have that same effect.
 
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I think it’s important to remember that, while it still doesn’t make it justified, some people do actually at least think they have good reasons for not being vegan anymore. For example, rather than just the usual “being vegan made me ill” touted by someone not researching and following good vegan nutrition advice, someone might genuinely develop or deteriorate with a health issue/s that actually does make being vegan much more difficult, if not impossible, to be healthy with, and they may have to go back to being veggie or even eating meat again because it would be insanely difficult or even impossible for them to be vegan and not get very sick/die young. Like I said, this doesn’t make it justified, but supporting someone’s choices/actions and just understanding and respecting the choices for the reasons why they made those choices are different. Also, you can love the sinner without loving the sin. Whether you agree with someone or their behaviour or not, no matter how passionately opposed to someone’s choices you may be, I believe it’s important to still be kind, civil, compassionate and understanding towards them as a sentient being and to their issues. Don’t get me wrong, it’s very important to promote veganism and help animals and the planet, but it’s also important to be kind to those who are not vegan, especially if they have fallen on hard times with their mental/physical health.
For another example, I used to be vegan, and I keep trying. When I am vegan, I can be a very passionate vegan. I even started writing a book called “Why You Should Go Vegan”! However, I have also developed binge eating disorder and also OCD, which, combined, make it insanely difficult to go vegan and stay vegan, so I am mostly just veggie at the moment.
The best way to deal with them and get them to go vegan is to be kind, compassionate, positive, polite and civil to them, answering their questions and concerns in helpful, compassionate, understanding and kind ways, kindly supporting them to go vegan again, or to find ways in which they can go vegan again.
I do believe most "vegans" do not do their homework before they start and during their vegan journey. Many "ex" vegans report they had this
or that health problem. Yet, did they go see a qualified nutritionist and get bloodwork done?. Did they take a look at what they were choosing
to eat and learn they were 'missing' nutrients? Just because we "like" what we are eating does not equal a balanced food regimen. did they try chronometer?. I believe the MAIN reason for ex's is that homework issue, poor food choices, plus they started to feel different and socially isolated.
 
Yes, you're saying something here. Trying something out is not the same as being involved. You can go to metal shows and look like an appropriate metalhead, but if the music does not touch you, this will be just a phase for you, and calling yourself a "former metalhead" will not make you very popular.

I do agree with this friend of yours. If somebody is really vegan, they'll stay vegan for a lifetime. There might occur situations when they have no other choice than having something non-vegan (medicine, hygiene products, or if there's really that lack of food choices... whatsoever), but as soon as it's possible, they are going to switch back to vegan options.
Me vegan for 35 years now. I believe in making a commitment. However, I have seen vegans who switched back after 10, 15,
or even 20 years so it is not malnutrition at that point. It takes a strong human to be vegan and swim upstream...
 
It saddens me a bit, too. But I was thinking about this over the past few days because I read about it here or on another website. I believe it's true that some people do "give up" veganism... but I also suspect that some people investigate something by "trying it out", and decide later that this isn't for them. A friend of mine on another website used to say that if someone claims to be a "former vegan", they never were vegan to begin with.
They indeed never have been vegans. Once you realize you’ve been unknowingly facilitating an industry of murder you either become vegan and at the very least not participate or you’re are murderer if you chose to continue participating from then on knowingly.
 
They indeed never have been vegans. Once you realize you’ve been unknowingly facilitating an industry of murder you either become vegan and at the very least not participate or you’re are murderer if you chose to continue participating from then on knowingly.
You have no empathy for human weakness and/or you are incredibly naive.
 
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You have no empathy for human weakness and/or you are incredibly naive.
I was force fed meat while chained with metal chains and padlocks by humans to cure my “mental illness” of veganism. I have very little empathy left for people having difficulties with finding alternative pleasures other than torture and murder! Not sorry for my views at all! No empathy to murderers and torturer to accommodate their “struggles” from the lack of their “pleasure” of murdering and torturing animals from me, AT ALL!
 
They indeed never have been vegans. Once you realize you’ve been unknowingly facilitating an industry of murder you either become vegan and at the very least not participate or you’re are murderer if you chose to continue participating from then on knowingly.
I don't agree with this at all.
The human psyche is complicated.

I believe that we can fall back into the cognitive dissonance we were in before we went vegan. Social pressure being the biggest hurdle.

A great example is Alex O'Connor. He was the reason I went vegan. And now he isn't vegan.
Was he vegan before? I believe so. I also believe he has convinced himself he can no longer maintain it.
For someone with such a high level of intelligence to do what he has done is unfathomable. But yet he did it.

I imagine it is fairly easy to fall into the "If you can't beat them, join them" trap.
I am totally alone in my journey (other than people online). It's tough, every day.
I have to keep reminding myself that I am doing the right thing.

Will I ever be "ex-vegan"... I hope not, but I cannot guarantee it.
 
I don't agree with this at all.
The human psyche is complicated.

I believe that we can fall back into the cognitive dissonance we were in before we went vegan. Social pressure being the biggest hurdle.

A great example is Alex O'Connor. He was the reason I went vegan. And now he isn't vegan.
Was he vegan before? I believe so. I also believe he has convinced himself he can no longer maintain it.
For someone with such a high level of intelligence to do what he has done is unfathomable. But yet he did it.

I imagine it is fairly easy to fall into the "If you can't beat them, join them" trap.
I am totally alone in my journey (other than people online). It's tough, every day.
I have to keep reminding myself that I am doing the right thing.

Will I ever be "ex-vegan"... I hope not, but I cannot guarantee it.
Alex O’Connor went “vegan” for “intellectual reasons” or smth after he lost a debate and became “ex-vegan” cause he got the shits. For anyone even half as intelligent as him it’s absolutely easy to work out how diarrhea works and what in the current circumstances causes it. And my more famous namesake Alex is doing the “if you can’t beat them join them” for religions so much it makes me wonder has he tried that with the vegan movement too, which just turned out to not be a religion and he had to save face. I never fully believed he had the epiphany about veganism and later going back to corpses and secretions over having the shots proved me right. I’ve trained and dieted 100+ people and at least 20 had the shots and I worked it out for them and they didn’t end up having “medical reasons” to go back to paying a murderous industry and he could have hired a guy or two or three that work what I work and solve the said shits, but he didn’t. He hired someone just to provide him with the convenience of not having to admit how shallow his motivations to go vegan were. There is absolutely zero need for anyone to eat animal products for health reasons.
 
Alex O’Connor went “vegan” for “intellectual reasons” or smth after he lost a debate and became “ex-vegan” cause he got the shits. For anyone even half as intelligent as him it’s absolutely easy to work out how diarrhea works and what in the current circumstances causes it. And my more famous namesake Alex is doing the “if you can’t beat them join them” for religions so much it makes me wonder has he tried that with the vegan movement too, which just turned out to not be a religion and he had to save face. I never fully believed he had the epiphany about veganism and later going back to corpses and secretions over having the shots proved me right. I’ve trained and dieted 100+ people and at least 20 had the shots and I worked it out for them and they didn’t end up having “medical reasons” to go back to paying a murderous industry and he could have hired a guy or two or three that work what I work and solve the said shits, but he didn’t. He hired someone just to provide him with the convenience of not having to admit how shallow his motivations to go vegan were. There is absolutely zero need for anyone to eat animal products for health reasons.
I agree with that bit. But I also think that there are other things at play here (psychologically). I don't believe he has simply gone back to carnism especially considering how damn well thought out his arguments were.

Another Youtuber I like watching is Stephen Woodford (Rationality rules).
In one broadcast he mentions a "circle of altruism". And I kind of agree with a lot of his reasoning even though the video was quite flawed in many ways...


We are all "speciesist" to a degree, and even though I don't eat fish, I am a LOT less bothered about the plight of fish than of mammals.
And almost not bothered at all about the plight of insects. Sure, I believe we owe them some moral consideration, but I don't sweat over swatting a mosquito that's trying to bite me, and I have no issue with "vegans" who eat honey (even though I personally avoid it for completion's sake).
 
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I agree with that bit. But I also think that there are other things at play here (psychologically). I don't believe he has simply gone back to carnism especially considering how damn well thought out his arguments were.

Another Youtuber I like watching is Stephen Woodford (Rationality rules).
In one broadcast he mentions a "circle of altruism". And I kind of agree with a lot of his reasoning even though the video was quite flawed in many ways...


We are all "speciesist" to a degree, and even though I don't eat fish, I am a LOT less bothered about the plight of fish than of mammals.
And almost not bothered at all about the plight of insects. Sure, I believe we owe them some moral consideration, but I don't sweat over swatting a mosquito that's trying to bite me, and I have no issue with "vegans" who eat honey (even though I personally avoid it for completion's sake).
Ohhh no consideration for the mosquito at all, or for fleas, or in a lot of circumstances for mice and rats and such. That’s self&property defense, which is not speciest at all, same rules would go for a human actually. For the other species where we have no defense argument I’ve noticed our feature empathy has a thing or two to say: what I mean is that a sea sponge, being an animal and all, triggers no empathetic reaction in people as it has certainly zero capacity of let’s say pain. This feeling is interpreted in a brain and sea sponges are an example of an animal that has zero brain, ganglions or whatever. It has a very simple single layer nervous network an no capacity for anything than constricting itself upon touch. There’s no interpretation, no reaction to anything else - thus it’s quite equal to Venus flytrap in reactionary features. Then when you go up in complexity you see a stronger and stronger empathetic response as the features of the nervous systems become a fuller set to what our experience is. So that is pretty understandable. I see quite well this spectrum and I look with some sort of disapproval at say bee products and complete disgust from the perpetrators of the horrors say cows, pigs and dogs are subjected to for that one taste and feeling of superiority. You’re kinda right this spectrum and the nuances are often lost in public discourse, but I suppose that’s because the masses are usually pretty stupid and you can’t reach to them with all the nuances of reality and when you simplify for the plebs it sounds like “eat and use nothing with a face or a mother”.
 
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At Burger King they are cooked on shared grill unless you ask for them to be microwaved. This doesn't bother me (If I don't taste it)
As to the testing, it's in the past and I feel the benefit of having a product that appeals to the masses outweighs it

I once asked a restaurant manager how exactly their flame-grilling conveyor belt worked (e.g., did they add any metal trays or similar in which the patties are then grilled), and he replied to me that it’s just a stainless steel conveyor on which all the patties are placed, but that he was pretty sure that all residues possibly left behind by meat patties are burned off nearly instantly because of the heat of the flames.

Seems fine to me, but of course, YMMV.
 
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I once asked a restaurant manager how exactly their flame-grilling conveyor belt worked (e.g., did they add any metal trays or similar in which the patties are then grilled), and he replied to me that it’s just a stainless steel conveyor on which all the patties are placed, but that he was pretty sure that all residues possibly left behind by meat patties are burned off nearly instantly because of the heat of the flames.

Seems fine to me, but of course, YMMV.
I have never had an issue with cross-contamination.
The point is to not contribute to the industry.

I go to BBQs etc with friends and cook my plant-based stuff on the same grill as their body parts.
 
In the early testing stages the FDA required Impossible to test some ingredient on rats. That's all I know about vegan considerations
At Burger King they are cooked on shared grill unless you ask for them to be microwaved. This doesn't bother me (If I don't taste it)
As to the testing, it's in the past and I feel the benefit of having a product that appeals to the masses outweighs it
I've had it both grilled and microwaved...one time each...and the microwaved one was gross. I couldn't even finish it. 😞
 
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