How to make my husband understand?

[Rainbow]

Hi everyone, I became vegan a few months ago and the first thing my husband said was 'that's great but don't expect me to change'.
Not the best start - and a great introduction into how defensive people get around the word 'vegan' ;-)

He will eat the vegan food I prepare and has nothing against vegan food in general but he has no intention on giving up meat.
He even says it doesn't bother him (it always bothered me deep down when I used to) and can look at a cow in the eye and cook a burger an hour later.
He does not make the connection at all. I try really hard not think he's a sociopath! haha... ha.
I know he means well and tells the truth, he doesn't feel highs and lows like I do, he's pretty constant.

I would really like to ask him to watch a doco/film about what's really going because deep down, I need to know he 'can' understand - but at the same time I'm scared that at the end he will just go 'meh', I'll still eat meat - confirming that he really is a sociopath ;-)

I have heard of Earthlings of course but I am not emotionally strong enough to watch something like this (a mental image of cruelty inflicted to an animal is enough to make me cry. Even a dog limping makes me cry!) - and it was made almost 20 years ago.

I don't want to ask him to change (although of course it would be a huge emotional relief if he did) but I do want him to really try to understand what I'm feeling and why.
I really don't want to let things get to a point where I can't stand having meat around me but also don't want him to feel rejected.

What would you suggest?

PS: nobody I know is vegan, none of them really understand it and explaining it doesn't work.
I can't even find a vegan counsellor (in person or online), in my town, state or country.
There are many unsupportive people in vegan FB groups who just turn you off from even posting.
Why do they make it so hard??

 

[Second Summer]

Hi Rainbow and welcome on board! Congrats on choosing veganism!

This is an issue I've seen quite a few times. We have several members on the forum who are or have been in a similar situation.

In some ways, you are actually lucky - relatively speaking - in that your husband is supportive and doesn't mind eating vegan food. Just that is a huge thing.

It's probably not fair, unfortunately, to expect your husband to follow your lifestyle change. Becoming vegan is a major, major change for most people, and veganism is also not super common in society, which again makes it tricky. The motivation ultimately has to come from within for it to stick. (Though, having said that, I admit that as a young man one of my veganism inspirations was some of those very interesting young vegan ladies! Although, their veganism journeys didn't last for long, but fortunately I had other, deeper reasons which kept me going.)

If your husband doesn't make the connection, you can always try to "work on it", but without expecting him to actually change. I think the best you can hope for is that he understands your own motivations better, which hopefully means he will remain supportive of your choices.

For example, how does your husband feel about adjacent topics such as environmentalism? Is he fond of companion animals? Wildlife? Health and healthy eating? Does he have a family history of lifestyle-related illnesses?

It turns out that it is easier to "get the connection" once you accidentally already consume/use very few animal products, because then you are less likely to be so defensive about eating meat.

Another thought I had was that you should try to make some new, vegan friends and acquaintances! Real-life is better, but online helps a lot as well! (This forum is a great place for it )

Best of luck in any case, and I hope to see you around the forum!

 

[PTree15]

Welcome to VF, Rainbow, and congrats on going vegan!

 

[Emma JC]

welcome to the forum and I hope you find it helpful to be here

If he will eat your vegan cooking then you are a lot further ahead than most so good on you.

I would suggest just keep on doing the same and don't try to push him or you may lose respect for him and he for you.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[silva]

If he's not bothering you about it I would suggest you not bother him. You married when you both ate animal products, and he's not the one who's changed and it sounds as if he's fine with that.
Congrats to you for making the change!

 

[Rainbow]

Hi Rainbow and welcome on board! Congrats on choosing veganism!

This is an issue I've seen quite a few times. We have several members on the forum who are or have been in a similar situation.

In some ways, you are actually lucky - relatively speaking - in that your husband is supportive and doesn't mind eating vegan food. Just that is a huge thing.

It's probably not fair, unfortunately, to expect your husband to follow your lifestyle change. Becoming vegan is a major, major change for most people, and veganism is also not super common in society, which again makes it tricky. The motivation ultimately has to come from within for it to stick. (Though, having said that, I admit that as a young man one of my veganism inspirations was some of those very interesting young vegan ladies! Although, their veganism journeys didn't last for long, but fortunately I had other, deeper reasons which kept me going.)

If your husband doesn't make the connection, you can always try to "work on it", but without expecting him to actually change. I think the best you can hope for is that he understands your own motivations better, which hopefully means he will remain supportive of your choices.

For example, how does your husband feel about adjacent topics such as environmentalism? Is he fond of companion animals? Wildlife? Health and healthy eating? Does he have a family history of lifestyle-related illnesses?

It turns out that it is easier to "get the connection" once you accidentally already consume/use very few animal products, because then you are less likely to be so defensive about eating meat.

Another thought I had was that you should try to make some new, vegan friends and acquaintances! Real-life is better, but online helps a lot as well! (This forum is a great place for it )

Best of luck in any case, and I hope to see you around the forum!

Thank you so much for the wonderful welcome
I have no doubt I am not the first one to be in this situation (I only found a couple of posts directly related, do let me know if you can find more).

I agree on being lucky that he is supportive and that it's not fair to expect him to change.
I don't expect that but I secretly hope really hard that he will (I'm human I can't help it) because it's so hard to look at your other half and wonder 'how can he be so aloof about all this, doesn't he have a heart? He wouldn't eat our dog!'. I also believe if 2 people don't grow in the same direction together then it can often lead to an end (been through it before).

I do talk about things I find and sometimes share with him and he may respond a little but usually the conversation ends quickly.
I guess because what is there to follow up on something like 'I just found out they take calves away from their mothers and kill the males because they are of no use to the dairy industry, that's just horrible' ???

I'm hoping that sharing bits and pieces of info will over time have some impact but I doubt it. He just looks at meat/dairy as food, just like we've all been brainwashed into doing.

I just need something to make the connection, like a film or documentary that may make him look at meat differently afterwards...
Visual evidence of what is happening because no words or explanations will have any impact.

Please suggest something if you can??

 

[g0rph]

Hi everyone, I became vegan a few months ago and the first thing my husband said was 'that's great but don't expect me to change'.
Not the best start - and a great introduction into how defensive people get around the word 'vegan' ;-)

He will eat the vegan food I prepare and has nothing against vegan food in general but he has no intention on giving up meat.
He even says it doesn't bother him (it always bothered me deep down when I used to) and can look at a cow in the eye and cook a burger an hour later.
He does not make the connection at all. I try really hard not think he's a sociopath! haha... ha.
I know he means well and tells the truth, he doesn't feel highs and lows like I do, he's pretty constant.

I would really like to ask him to watch a doco/film about what's really going because deep down, I need to know he 'can' understand - but at the same time I'm scared that at the end he will just go 'meh', I'll still eat meat - confirming that he really is a sociopath ;-)

I have heard of Earthlings of course but I am not emotionally strong enough to watch something like this (a mental image of cruelty inflicted to an animal is enough to make me cry. Even a dog limping makes me cry!) - and it was made almost 20 years ago.

I don't want to ask him to change (although of course it would be a huge emotional relief if he did) but I do want him to really try to understand what I'm feeling and why.
I really don't want to let things get to a point where I can't stand having meat around me but also don't want him to feel rejected.

What would you suggest?

PS: nobody I know is vegan, none of them really understand it and explaining it doesn't work.
I can't even find a vegan counsellor (in person or online), in my town, state or country.
There are many unsupportive people in vegan FB groups who just turn you off from even posting.
Why do they make it so hard??

I could have written this almost word for word a year and a half ago, except I am the male, and my (non married) partner of almost 30 years is the female.

I am the only vegan I know in the area.
I cook all the main meals(vegan) and they get eaten without complaint. I think I cook quite well.

And yes, it's frustrating they simply can't "get it". But then neither did I 2 years ago. It came as an epiphany. And once realisation sunk in, I became horrified at the "norm".

It's a question of compartmentalising. They aren't "bad" people any more than you were before.

They may change. But with societal pressure... Probably not. Not until it becomes a larger minority or even majority.

I am just trying to get used to thinking "That's the way it is" and blanking out the horror show that is restaurants, shops and family gatherings.

 

[Chryssie]

 

[Rainbow]

welcome to the forum and I hope you find it helpful to be here

If he will eat your vegan cooking then you are a lot further ahead than most so good on you.

I would suggest just keep on doing the same and don't try to push him or you may lose respect for him and he for you.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

Thanks for your suggestions Emma and welcome, really appreciate it!

 

[Rainbow]

Thank you Chryssie, it’s good to be here!

 

[poivron]

There is a really good book about relationships between vegans and non-vegans. It's by Melanie Joy, and it's called "Beyond Beliefs". I'm not in a relationship with a non-vegan, but I learned a huge amount about communication and relationships from that book. It's pretty densely written, and it's worth all the time you put into it.

You can't make your husband vegan, but you do need him to be an ally. An ally is someone who understands and supports a vegan. (Many people misunderstand what Melanie Joy means by an "ally"; it's not just someone who "tolerates" your veganism; it's someone who understands how important veganism is to you and defends you when other non-vegans behave unkindly towards you.) You need him to understand and witness your feelings and experiences. If he's not willing to do that, that's a sign that there is a deeper problem in the relationship that probably has nothing to do with veganism. Based on everything you've written, I imagine that your husband will probably agree to be a vegan ally.

What made me go vegan was watching "Vegucated". It's fun to watch and gentle, but it includes three minutes of factory-farm footage. After watching it, I told my husband that I wanted to go vegan. At first, he was resistant, but I explained to him that this was important to me and that I couldn't do it without him. I asked him just to watch the film with me. When saw the film, he said he saw no logical reason to continue to eat animals.

Even though we decided to go "vegan" together, looking back, we were really not very strict in the early days. I was afraid, for reasons too long to go into right now, that it would be too difficult to be a strict vegan, and that being flexible would be more sustainable in the long run. We therefore agreed to be vegan at home and vegetarian when eating out. (We don't eat out very frequently.) After a while, we saw that it really wasn't hard to be vegan when eating out as well. But it took quite a few years for us to become good vegans. My husband says that if I had insisted on being strict from the beginning, he would probably have resisted going vegan. It's therefore a good idea not to be too much of a perfectionist. In the beginning, it seems really difficult to be vegan, but as one gets into it, one realizes it's not so hard, and one becomes a better vegan (a more perfect vegan) over time.

I think the most important thing is to accept that you cannot make your husband vegan. Only he can make that decision for himself. Once you accept that, and he realizes that you are not trying to make him vegan, he will hopefully not be so defensive. Over time, he is likely to become vegan as well, but it has to be his decision. Good luck!

 

[Rainbow]

Merci poivron for your lovely input, I will definitely check the book out asap. I also just got Vystopia to make sure I don't get swallowed up by the sadness of what's going on.

Last night we had a really good chat and I explained how I felt and he was supportive.
I asked if he'd at least watch a documentary, not to convince him, but so he is at least informed of what is going on.
His reaction was that he could watch it, but he knew he'd watch it knowing his intentions wouldn't change regardless, that every documentary has an agenda, only showing what serves that agenda.

When I said I agreed with that but why did it matter if the agenda was good? And in this case isn't the agenda to stop hurting animals, isn't that a good thing? Well, I guess he couldn't really say too much against that.

Sure I don't want to force him in any way but I need him to at least know, the fact and stop fooling himself when he says things like 'not all farms are bad' 'it's not like that everywhere', 'isn't it better for cows (for example) to have lived a life than been born at all?'...

OK, OK... don't get me started on what I answered because we all know as ethical vegans what we would all answer to that lol

I guess I need to know there is hope he will change over time because even though he could be a meat eater when I'm not around, I want him to 'get it', you know? And I can see that unless you are vegan, no amount of explanation makes sense to a meat eater!

I will look into Vegucated, thank you so much!

 

[Emma JC]

One that men sometimes find helpful the The Game Changers documentary, I believe still on Netflix.

It is fun and interesting and may be helpful.

Milked about the dairy industry in New Zealand is also interesting.

What the Health is also good if you think approaching from a health perspective would be good.

Would definitely lead with The Game Changers.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[Rainbow]

One that men sometimes find helpful the The Game Changers documentary, I believe still on Netflix.

It is fun and interesting and may be helpful.

Milked about the dairy industry in New Zealand is also interesting.

What the Health is also good if you think approaching from a health perspective would be good.

Would definitely lead with The Game Changers.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

Thanks Emma! I don’t have Netflix but I’ll check the other options

 

[Lou]

Vegucated is a good choice but I would Cowspiracy at the top of the list. IMHO, Its the most watchable and the most relevant. Try your local library or just google it. It may not be free but I'm sure you can still find it streaming somewhere.

However, your husband is quickly going to come to the conclusion it has an agenda. Although it doesn't misrepresent or exaggerate any facts - it definitely spins some stuff. when it's done you can look at its website for refrences.

That might be a good group exercise you can do with your husband.

 

[Rainbow]

Vegucated is a good choice but I would Cowspiracy at the top of the list. IMHO, Its the most watchable and the most relevant. Try your local library or just google it. It may not be free but I'm sure you can still find it streaming somewhere.

However, your husband is quickly going to come to the conclusion it has an agenda. Although it doesn't misrepresent or exaggerate any facts - it definitely spins some stuff. when it's done you can look at its website for refrences.

That might be a good group exercise you can do with your husband.

Thanks for your recommendations Lou!
He will definitely say “they’re just showing us the worst ones, it doesn’t represent both sides of the story” - as if there was another side!!

If I could handle cruelty footage I would just watch it all with him nearby, hoping he’d be half listening but for my mental health, I can’t.

So it has to be something he’ll watch on his own. It has to be impactful and truthful without being propaganda. Something more on the proven, science side of things. Men like facts!
Maybe I’m asking too much and no such thing exists…

 

[Lou]

If I could handle cruelty footage I would just watch it all with him nearby, hoping he’d be half listening but for my mental health, I can’t.

there is maybe a minute of cruelty footage in Cowspiracy.

So it has to be something he’ll watch on his own. It has to be impactful and truthful without being propaganda. Something more on the proven, science side of things. Men like facts!

Conspiracy is chuck full of facts. The critics complain of cherry picking. but they are still facts. also its one of the few that has a page on web what has references for all the statistics it quotes.

its also IMHO the most watchable.

COWSPIRACY: The Sustainability Secret

 

[silva]

Thanks for your recommendations Lou!
He will definitely say “they’re just showing us the worst ones, it doesn’t represent both sides of the story” - as if there was another side!!

If I could handle cruelty footage I would just watch it all with him nearby, hoping he’d be half listening but for my mental health, I can’t.

So it has to be something he’ll watch on his own. It has to be impactful and truthful without being propaganda. Something more on the proven, science side of things. Men like facts!
Maybe I’m asking too much and no such thing exists…

I'm still respectful of those I dislike. I don't wish them harm, and would defend them if I saw them being mistreated. If they should do something that would cause me or those I love trouble, however, I would not hesitate to respond in an appropriate manner.
I'm not vegan because I 'love' all animals, it's simply that I don't need to bother them. Humans have evolved eating and using animals, but for most, there is no need to continue, in fact, eating and using animals is detrimental in so many ways.
I kinda cringe when I see the posters off kissing pigs, and the ones comparing them to humans. They aren't humans, they have lives of their own and should not be infringed upon.
I don't like the sensationalistic documentaries because there are so many over inflated claims people get all crazed about them, then rethink it, and go back to how they've always eaten. I haven't seen Game Changers, but how others have related it, then forgotten it, this seems quite over the top

 

[Rainbow]

there is maybe a minute of cruelty footage in Cowspiracy.


Conspiracy is chuck full of facts. The critics complain of cherry picking. but they are still facts. also its one of the few that has a page on web what has references for all the statistics it quotes.

its also IMHO the most watchable.

COWSPIRACY: The Sustainability Secret

Oh that's good to know, thanks for that

 

[Lou]

I haven't seen Game Changers, but how others have related it, then forgotten it, this seems quite over the top

Game changers is a pretty good doc. IMDB score 7.8. For comparison, Cowspiracy is 8.1
It is not about animal rights, animal cruelty or environmentalism. It is Just about health.
Mostly about plant based protein and athletes.
Its broken up into chapters that mostly take on one myth about plant based protein at a time.
Its pretty much got something for every kind of sports fan. Of course my favorite part was the American Football team The Tennessee Titans.
I think it might be something important to you, it features at least a handful of Australian athletes.

One of my favorite parts involved college students, plant based burritos and erections. Not the most scientific study but a nice attention grabber for most of the male audience. Maybe some females, too.

'The Game Changers': Vegan Athletes You Need to Know - PETA Australia