Go Green now if You Dislike Trump

[Jamie in Chile]

This post is most relevant to people living in the USA. If you're not in the US, still take one of these actions, but the timing is less critical.

Under Joe Biden and the Democratic congress, in the Inflation Reduction Act, subsidies were enacted/continued for Electric Cars, Heat Pumps, and Solar Panels, which in my opinion are three of the top five personal actions you can take to reduce climate and pollution. (I think the other two are go vegan/vegetarian/eat less meat and don't fly/fly less/fly short haul only.)

But Donald Trump and the Republican congress, funded by the fossil fuel industry, has just cancelled all of them. However the cancellation of the subsidies doesn't take effect immediately.

I have done them all three of the things above myself, and will put links to some blogs in a comment, and answer any questions here. None of these things were a sacrifice to me overall...and all of them had a zero or negative cost in the long run (I actually made money)....but they do require some investment of money and/or time at the start. They require making some effort and really telling yourself "yes, now is the time to do this!". If you can't start on this right this second, put a reminder in your phone/calendar/fridge or write it on your list of things to do. If you're too busy now, when in the next 7 days will you not be?

I am hoping to get one person on this forum to do one of those three things (replace gas car with EV, solar panels, or heat pump) as a result of reading this post and then post here to say that they've done it.

The electric car subsidy is $7,500 (with a smaller subsidy available for used cars) but it ends September 30th. That means that, after allowing time for unexpected delays in your personal life or at work, right now is the right time to act to allow for time do do online research, do test drives, and sign up for your car in August or September if you like cutting things fine. Due to the lower costs of maintenance, repair, servicing and fuel, you will likely lose money in the long run if you stick with your gas car instead for a few years more (provided you can charge at home).

For solar panels, you can get a 30% discount but the system has to be installed and commissioned by December 31st, 2025. Note that bureaucracy can sometimes delay things, and solar installers will be busy, and this isn't just something you buy in one day. I would get quotes this month and make a decision by next month so as not to cut it fine. We are going to see a very high demand that could lead to price rises. Act now as installers will likely start increasing their quotes soon! Do some research to make sure you qualify.

Heat pumps, for hot water and heating, and perhaps to include cooling - to replace a gas or oil boiler that causes climate change and possibly pollution within your home - is another option that can have a big impact on your emissions but again these aren't small projects that get sorted in one day: act now.

The way the subsidies work in the US I believe is you still have to pay up front and get it back later on your tax return, which is sub optimal, but manageable if you have savings or can get credit.

Residential Solar Tax Credit Going Away In US After 2025

The 30% residential solar tax credit ends after 2025. Learn what homeowners and installers must complete before the deadline so systems qualify under IRS placed-in-service rules.

www.greenlancer.com

With EV tax credit gone, now’s the time to buy an electric car

Trump’s megabill ends the consumer tax credits for EVs in September. But until then, shoppers can still use them to lock in lower prices — and great lease…

www.canarymedia.com

If you'd always wanted to do something for the climate but never made a big move apart from being vegan, this really is the moment to do something great, stick it to Trump while there's still time and don't let him and the big corporate fossil fuel industry win on this one!

If you live in a rental property and don't own a car or wish to do so, this post is not for you, but perhaps share this somewhere else. Better still, post this in an online community where you are a respected poster by stealing chunks of it and writing a few bits in your own words - it will have more impact that way. Consider this an open source article, copy and use as you like without attribution.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

What I Learned From Driving 7 Electric Cars in 6 Countries is a summary of some key points to know if you're considering an EV. If you want to know if an EV is cheaper than a gas car in your state, I can probably work it out for you from if you message me or post here with 1 your approx. annual mileage, 2 your electricity price (in cents/kWh), 3 your gas price at the pump nearest your house, 4 whether you can charge from your home (if you can park your car next to your house, then you probably can). I'm happy to spend my time to help people in individual cases, as long as you're seriously considering it and there's a real chance you'll get rid of your gas car this year.

My (UK) experience of a heat pump My Heat Pump Experience (£1 = US$1.35) (I live in Chile but I used to own this house in the UK which I put a heat pump in and then sold.)

 

[PTree15]

I like the idea of an EV, but I worry about the environmental impact of battery production and disposal. Nobody really talks about the battery issue. Not to mention the ever-increasing price of electricity in my state. My rates have tripled over the past couple of years. I live in one of the most expensive states for consumer energy costs. We are usually top 3 or 5 for energy costs in the nation.

I would like to be able to charge a car at home, but I likely would have to upgrade my electrical panel as well, which isn't cheap. And I'm not really in a financial position at the moment to buy a car, EV or otherwise. I might be in a couple of years, so the timing of the subsidies ending is unfortunate.

Infrastructure is improving in my region, which is key because I do drive long distances quite a bit. For long trips, it would probably mean adding a lot more time to the trip to allow for charging vs. filling up with gas. <sigh>

 

[Lou]

I am hoping to get one person on this forum to do one of those three things (replace gas car with EV, solar panels, or heat pump) as a result of reading this post and then post here to say that they've done it.

I bought an EV a few days ago. I got a 4500 tax credit. I didn't think the tax credit would do me any good because I pay so little taxes but they took the credit off the top.

BTW, I got a 2019 Chevy Bolt.
My 1999 Honda prelude is for sale.

one of the things that moved me off the fence was that I had been driving so little because of the price of gas. (the prelude gets pretty bad mileage - about 20mpg) I have been taking mass transit a lot. it turns out its cheaper to ride than drive.

But now I'll be driving. the Bolt is going to be so much cheaper to operate. My sister has solar panels and a car charger and told me that when ever I come to visit her I can use her charger.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

I bought an EV a few days ago. I got a 4500 tax credit. I didn't think the tax credit would do me any good because I pay so little taxes but they took the credit off the top.

BTW, I got a 2019 Chevy Bolt.
My 1999 Honda prelude is for sale.

one of the things that moved me off the fence was that I had been driving so little because of the price of gas. (the prelude gets pretty bad mileage - about 20mpg) I have been taking mass transit a lot. it turns out its cheaper to ride than drive.

But now I'll be driving. the Bolt is going to be so much cheaper to operate. My sister has solar panels and a car charger and told me that when ever I come to visit her I can use her charger.

Great Lou. Yes, EVs are generally cheaper if you can charge from home. The exception is brand new EVs which can be pricing but they depreciate faster in the first 2 - 3 years so are worth picking up second hand.

I'll copy and paste my tips for new EV drivers from my article in the first comment (editing out some bits relevant to the UK).

1. The car will display an estimated range but it’s just a rough guess. If it goes down to a lower amount it’s probably changed the estimate because you recently drove faster or it’s cold or some other reason. The car has not lost range and the battery is still fine.
2. Before charging away from home for the first time, consider if you need any apps.
3. Don’t just use any charging network. Some are unreliable and force you to get another app and fill in details on your phone while waiting to charge which is annoying. Do some research on which are best in your area.
4. Plan out your trips so you know which chargers you plan to stop at. Have a plan B charger (at least to start with) just incase something goes wrong with plan A.
5. For longer trips, if you use GPS, put the next charger as the destination instead of the final destination.

Are you going to be charging from home? That can make a big difference to the success of having an EV.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

I like the idea of an EV, but I worry about the environmental impact of battery production and disposal. Nobody really talks about the battery issue. Not to mention the ever-increasing price of electricity in my state. My rates have tripled over the past couple of years. I live in one of the most expensive states for consumer energy costs. We are usually top 3 or 5 for energy costs in the nation.

I would like to be able to charge a car at home, but I likely would have to upgrade my electrical panel as well, which isn't cheap. And I'm not really in a financial position at the moment to buy a car, EV or otherwise. I might be in a couple of years, so the timing of the subsidies ending is unfortunate.

Infrastructure is improving in my region, which is key because I do drive long distances quite a bit. For long trips, it would probably mean adding a lot more time to the trip to allow for charging vs. filling up with gas. <sigh>

I see your point that you won't be buying a car soon, but I'll reply anyway for the benefit of others.

Your doubts are quite common so it's an interesting discussion.

On the electricity costs, if does depend on how high we are talking about, if it's 30 cents/kWh for example, EVs will still be far cheaper than a conventional car. It has to be something like 80cents/kWh before it costs per mile a similar amount to gas (very rough estimate) and rarely is anywhere that expensive. After you get an EV, you can sometimes sign up to a special cheap overnight rate and mainly charge the car then, which is even better.

I've actually noticed that people talk a lot about the environmental impact of production of and disposal of electric vehicles, but completely ignore the environmental impact of production of and disposal of conventional vehicles. With EVs, you only have to dig up lithium etc once to produce the car and often in a desert where there isn't as much human or animal life to disturb. With a petrol and diesel car, you have to continually dig up oil throughout the lifetime of the vehicle to keep it going, so the impact is much higher. Therefore, the environmental impacts of EVs can only be an argument for not having a car, and not an argument to stay with a gas car.

Yes, wannabe EV owners may have to upgrade their electrics and put an electric charger in, possibly at a cost of $1,000-$2,000 (a rough guess, but it varies). However, that is not much compared to the overall cost of owning any car for some years. It just feels like a big chunk at the start which is part of the issue, especially for people that don't have savings and can't get (good) credit.

For long trips, a 2 hour trip might be a 2.5 hour trip in an EV, and a 5 hour trip might become a 7 hour trip, but it varies. If EV owners can charge from home they make back that lost time on the occassional longer trip by all the time you save at the gas station. Plus, on the longer trips , you just use those 15-45 minute breaks to catch up on whatsapp messages, the news, or getting something to eat having planned ahead and not looked at all your whatsapp messages and news earlier in the day.

I actually think your post demonstrates the hesitation people have in making a change, even when that change will make people (eventually) better off and happier eventually. Again, not you personally since this isn't the right time for you, but for anyone else.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

The New York times today estimates that 19% of homes would lose money, and 81% of homes would save money by installing a heat pump. It says that 16% would save >$1,000 per year.

it says it has come from a New York Times analysis that combines data on fuel and electricity costs around the country with estimates of how much energy it takes to heat many different kinds of houses, from research done by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory.

If anyone wants me to check for you you just need to tell me your state and whether you have natural gas, "baseboards of electric furnace" or "propane or fuel oil".

Probably paywalled, but this is the link to a calculator where you input your state and current heating system and it gives you an individual estimate : Should You Get a Heat Pump? Take Our 2-Question Quiz.

Heat pumps are better for the environment by a huge amount in states with a mix of renewables and fossil fuels. However, even in coal heavy states they are better because they are more efficient and the electricity will decarbonize over time.

 

[Chryssie]

I appreciate all the info @Jamie in Chile. I have been curious about EV's for some time, however I live in an apartment so a home charger is not possible. They are also very expensive. I have decided that my next car will be a hybrid which is a step in the right direction. My brother and his wife both got hybrid SUV's and my son just got a hybrid sedan. They are very happy with those cars and I hope to find an affordable pre-owned small hybrid next year.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

Be careful not to trust that a car will have good fuel economy because it says "hybrid". There are hybrid SUVs/crossovers where the "hybrid" is more for marketing and greenwashing and the fuel economy is not very good. Apologies if I'm stating the obvious here, but you need to check the fuel economy as verified by third party sources rather than whether is says hybrid or not. There are hybrid SUVs that do 30 miles per gallon and others claiming 50 miles per gallon out of a small car that isn't even a hybrid.

I don't know as much about hybrids, and I am not sure what counts as "small". The Hyundai Ioniq (which has hybrid, plug in hybrid and full electric and they all look the same so you have to check the advert carefully) and the Toyota Prius have superb fuel economy. Would those count as a small car to you? To me, those are more mid-size but in the US market, these would be a smaller than average car if we include pickups and SUVs as "cars".

I don't think there are that many small hybrids. There is the Prius C (discontinued in 2019 in USA), which really is a small car whether in the US or Europe.

If you live in an apartment (and assuming there are not chargers in the apartment parking lot) then usually both arguments that EVs will actually improve your quality of life and save you money are usually not true.

The first is usually not true because you will end up having to drive around and sometimes out of your way to search for chargers and wait while the car is charging. Although you may be able to do it as part of your daily routine if there is a charger at your regular work place, store, mall grocery store etc. But again, scope it out 3-4 times and make sure it always seems to be working and isn't sometimes occupied.

The savings of an EV may not be realized either as public charging is more expensive than home charging so it may work out about the same or more expensive overall as a gas car. (If you have free chargers at work you will still save money on EVs, but not many do.)

However, if anyone else lives in an apartment building and wants to get an EV, you certainly can, especially if your focus is more on altruistic reasoning rather than money saving or having an easier life. However, in such a case, you would want to, before buying the car, find out if there are chargers in the apartment parking lot (monitor the situation for a while checking how often these chargers are available or whether they ever seem to be out of order), whether any are planned to be installed, and whether there are many chargers locally (checking reviews online and actually visiting them to make sure they are working and are not fully occupied all the time).

 

[Chryssie]

I live in a smallish (population 45,000) city in Central Florida. There are no charging stations in apartment complexes that I know of. I don't know of any in the shopping plazas either. I think there might be some at city hall. Charging stations are not that available in my area at all. I currently drive a Kia Soul which I consider a small car. I wouldn't go smaller than that. Sadly there is no hybrid Soul, only EV. My son said his Toyota Camry sedan gets 44 miles to the gallon which I think is good for a car that size. I don't know what my brother's SUV's get. They are a Honda and a Kia Sportage.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

I may be spoiled by all the chargers I've seen everywhere in Chile, England and France. If we discount California (and maybe a few other liberal states and cities?), the rest of the US is a couple of years at least behind Europe. I can't imagine the fossil-fuel funded Republicans that govern Florida, and have a base of support that are skeptical on EVs, are in a huge hurry to speed up electrification either.

I used the Tesla supercharger in Florida City when I stayed in Florida City a last year for a few days to visit Miami, the Everglades and snorkel on the keys. It was fine, although I never had to wait. It was pretty full and once all chargers were in use about 15 minutes and a couple of cars waited for 5 minutes and then drove off.

There was a BBQ place next to the Tesla superchargers and I walked in and asked if they had any vegan options to which they just said "no". Always seems like money lost when someone says that. I bet they had avocado, bread and fries, and could have made some money if they had wanted to, given that I was stuck there about 3 times at dinner time at the end of the day for half an hour.

I was there in May 2024 when there were record temperatures, do you remember that? The outdoor unheated pool in the motel was actually too hot for me to cool down after the day, it was almost like being in a jacuzzi.

 

[Chryssie]

Yes last summer was scorching hot! Even though I live considerably further north of Miami, we had record breaking heat as well. There have already been several days of triple digit heat indexes this summer.

 

[Lou]

I live in an a apt and for now home charging is out.
I had a lot of trepidation and anxiety about using commercial chargers but my sister who has had an EV since 2013 gave me some good arguments and tips that changed my mind.
EVGo has a deal with the major supermarket in my area and have their chargers in every parking lot. I usually go to the supermarket once a week so I should be able to do most of my charging while grocery shopping. If I need more time, it just so happens my gym is a 5 minute walk from the supermarket. And there is a Starbucks there too. So charging will be not that inconvenient.
I downloaded the EVGo app at home and connected it to my credit card. The car comes with the MyChevrolet App which I then connected to the EVGo account I made. So I just went to the charger and plugged it into the car and got my electricity.
I've downloaded the ChargePoint App and did the same thing with it. Those two should do it for 90% of the time but the MyChervolet App has room and suggestions for two more... so when I have time - or before I go somewhere - I'll do the same for those.
My ol' Prelude only got 20 MPG. I did the math and it came out about 25¢ a mile. I did the math for the EV and its like 8¢ a mile.
Also electricity is cheaper from 12 to 8 AM. I wake up early every morning and like to go to the gym before 8. I could just go plug in at 7 and go to the gym and then even go shopping. So my cost per mile may even go down.

The tip my sister gave me is Not to wait till you're almost empty. If you do that it might take hours to "fill up" . but just go once a week for 30 minutes.

 

[Lou]

I think the MyChevorlet app has a route planner. you put in your final destination and it tells you when and where to stop. I know at any time you can just say Hey, Siri where is the closest charger and it will give you directions.

 

[Lou]

And as my sister pointed out - no more oil changes.
My car has "one pedal" braking so maybe no more brake pads.
or radiator flushes. tune ups, etc.

 

[KLS52]

This is a good/informative thread but it's giving me major anxiety...anxiety that often has me frozen in place and afraid to make changes.

I would have to have a home charger in order to have an EV, no doubt about that. We had our panel upgraded when we moved here but not sure what's required for an EV.

Like PTree, our electric rates are one of the highest, in the country. I can barely use the heating in winter. My bill in February was $635 and that's with turning the heat off at night and the thermostat on 58 during the day. And that's with a heat pump in our upper level. I'm sure most of the cost is for the lower level where my son's room is...he has electric baseboard heating. I wanted to upgrade to a heat pump down there, too, but could not convince husband.

I'm not sure about solar yet. But that's just my general skepticism/fear about anything new. I'm seeing lots of people installing it here. I wonder if I'd need to have some trees removed, too... I don't get a lot of sun.

 

[Raven]

My husband and I don't drive and obviously don't own a car. There is a charging point close to my house though as I've seen other people charging their cars. I did think about solar panels, but I looked into it and it takes about 10 years to get the initial money back and I don't think we will be living in this house for 10 years.

 

[KLS52]

My husband and I don't drive and obviously don't own a car. There is a charging point close to my house though as I've seen other people charging their cars. I did think about solar panels, but I looked into it and it takes about 10 years to get the initial money back and I don't think we will be living in this house for 10 years.

I don't know where we will be in ten years also. Being considerably older than you, I'll consider myself lucky if I'm still alive lol.

But all kidding aside, I'm not sure if we could afford to stay here should either my husband or I pass away as we will be without the income from one of our social security checks. We didn't plan very well for retirement, but then we were hit with a couple of life events over the years that made it difficult to save.

One thing for sure, if I could give advise to the up and coming generations...don't live above your means...if you can buy a house/property, do it, and try to pay off your mortgage before you retire. I know a few people who have done that and it makes for a much better experience. And at least you will have a roof over your head.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

I think we all have to get over our initial resistance to change and gut feeling to stick with what we know, and once we've made changes in life, we tend not to regret them (if they were well thought out).

Remember when you first went vegetarian. At the time there was probably hesitancy and doubts, perhaps it wasn't easy the first days or weeks, but now it's just part of your life and hopefully you're all glad you did it.

Good on you Lou for going EV without home charging: might be interesting to see a report from you after a few months about how it's been.

 

[Raven]

I probably will be looking for a house or flat with solar panels for my next move as that will be the final move.