Giving up dairy

[Rory17]

Hello ,
I am a 24-year old female who is on the autism spectrum. As I am Autistic, I am sensitive so please don’t be mean, no matter how passionately you may feel about this. You may want to try to get others to go vegan, and that is great. However, there’s good ways and there’s bad ways to say it, nice ways and not-so nice ways.
I went vegetarian at 13 and vegan at about 20. I have recently gone back to vegetarian, as I now eat some dairy and egg products (e.g cheese, dairy chocolates and cakes with eggs and dairy).
I went vegan for the animals, because of the cows having their calves taken away and the male calves being shot, and the male chicks of the egg industry being gassed and/or shredded alive...
I then went back to vegetarian as I would cheat my veganism, and got hooked back on cheese, etc.
Other people that know me would say I’m a very passionate animal rights person. However, although I could (and still can) be very imposing of my veganism and vegetarianism on others, I know that the best person to start with if you wish to make a change in the world is yourself.
I so, so want others to change to vegan. I also so want to be a better warrior for animals.
P.S I eat dairy-free alternatives to dairy, and have eaten other dairy-free alternatives in the past. I eat/have eaten vegan cheeses, cakes, yogurts, milks (my favourite is coconut, followed by oat and almond), desserts and butter spread, but I still eat dairy cheeses (in particular vintage cheddar and goats cheese).
Please help.
Thank you from me and the animals and the Earth .

 

[Brian W]

When I was vegetarian, if I slipped up and had meat, my mindset was "I might as well give up trying and stay omnivore" I actually became vegan, not by trying to be vegan but by relaxing the rules. What I mean is, I didn't care for labels and limits. If I ate animal, so be it, but I was going to enjoy plant food as much as possible. This made veganism a pleasure and not a restriction and it made it easier for me to stick to. There are ways to deal with meat cravings but I have to admit, cheese is a real temptation and I haven't found a good alternative yet. If I ever do slip up and eat cheese it won't feel like a big issue to me because I accept my weaknesses. Making it a big issue would only make it more difficult for me so I am always gentle with myself. I hope this is of some help to you.

 

[Lou]

Hi, Rory.
I've seen you around but I don't think we have ever talked. So first off: Nice to Meet You

As far as advice or recommendations go, I am of two minds.

In talking to non-vegans, if only I had a nickel for every time someone said, "I could be vegan, except for the cheese." and what I usually tell them is, "go ahead and be vegan, except for the cheese."

Listen, no one is really 100% vegan. And if you only cheated on cheese, and just considered calories, you would be like 95% vegan. If you went by grams of food consumption, you probably would be like 98 - 99%. That is still an A+ in my book. So don't sweat it. One of my favorite sayings is, "Don't let perfection be the enemy of good".

On the other hand, there are many reasons (ethics, personal health, and environmental) not to consume ANY dairy. I don't have to give you the reasons. You probably could give the lecture yourself. But there is a reason people have a lot of trouble with cheese. It's addictive. And it's not just the salt and fat (although those things alone make it hard to give up). but the milk protein casein is also addictive. In the article below as well as others the authors/researchers compare cheddar to crack.

But like any other addiction, you can beat it. It just isn't all that easy. Although I didn't have trouble doing it many people do. Make a bet with yourself and see if you can go with cheese for 3 weeks. Chances are by the time you get to 3 weeks you won't even want cheese anymore.

This Is Your Brain On Cheese

 

[Nekodaiden]

Hi Rory,

It does not seem that your passion for animal rights is, by itself,
enough to keep you away from eggs and dairy. This is one of the reasons
I disagree with the idea that vegan=motiveforbeingvegan, or that it is some
broader state of being wherein diet is merely a component. Obviously this
can lead some to conclude they can still (willfully and knowingly) eat
animal products (to whatever small degree) and still retain the title. This
is not only confusing for them but sets a bad example to others.

I do not agree with the idea that not everyone can be 100% vegan. I think it's incorrect, in addition to being
revealing and a sort of anti-vegan encouragement, disguised as vegan encouragement.

Insofar as someone is a person with full control over what they put into
their mouth, you absolutely can be.

I would start looking at what your triggers are. When do you crave cheese
and dairy? Do you watch television where they are frequently advertised? Ads
on the internet or in your FB feed? Block these ads.
Do you eat them when you are hungry? Why are you hungry? Have you gotten
enough whole food into yourself to satisfy your caloric as well as gut
microbiome needs in the form of fiber/resistant starch?

You can ask for help, but ultimately the choices are yours. Identify
your triggers, eliminate them to the best of your ability, get enough food,
and get enough of the right type of food that keeps you satisfied. Keep doing
this and you'll get stronger.

For what it's worth. Vegan for approx 2.5 years, and I do not cheat. If I know
the food/product contains animal products, I avoid. I also plan (take food with me,
eat enough before, make sure there's a place where I can get adequate vegan food if
needed etc.) when I'm in a situation where I might be hungry and tempted.


Best wishes.

 

[Max Caulfield]

I practically lived on diary as a vegetarian (although it's more on cream cheese and butter) and had no issues with dropping it, despite being very picky with my food and sticking to foods I knew and being massive procrastinator. I don't buy whole addiction shtick as I haven't' see any solid evidence of casomorphin being addictive and if you simply craved high fat foods then vegan alternatives would suffice.

I would consider myself weak willed, at least most of the time. In such case I would recommend gradually introducing some routine and sticking to it despite of you not wanting it, Perhaps it will help.

 

[silva]

Hey @Rory17 ! I do understand. Don't listen to the posts from the "better than you" bunch. Everyone has issues in different areas, and the fact that you've been vegetarian and mostly vegan for that much of your life is something to be proud of. I have my own issues with animal products that have cause me so much obsession, and I also had to ease up for fear I'd regress

I do find dairy causes me a lot of mucusy congestion. The last time I binged on cheese, with the idea that I'd be really sick and sorry, I wasn't at all sick- to my stomach at least. I did have loads of snot, coughing it up, blowing my nose. Now is a really good time to avoid it! Can you think of some foods you can directly switch to when you crave cheese? For me it mostly olives. Really good olives!

 

[Nekodaiden]

May I remind everyone that this thread is asking for help and the OP I'm sure has a mind of her own and can determine which responses are helping her without other's input on those responses. Bringing up old disputes and arguing is probably not what she's looking for.

 

[Danielle]

Been vegan for 8 years, it took me 3 years to fully transition from being vegetarian. It was a lot of back and forth, months of kicking it only to relapse, until it stuck one day. I do think that being vegan is the right thing to do, but I don’t think it is easy.
Recently had some cravings for cheese but it passed. Cravings can be hard, gotta find something else that tastes great that’s vegan. Whenever you got a craving think of all the vegan food you could have instead, hope that helps. Take it a day at a time if you have to, and write it down on a calendar

 

[Mostly Random Dude]

I then went back to vegetarian as I would cheat my veganism, and got hooked back on cheese, etc.

Let me right away say that the whole farming industry is horrible, the dairy and eggs producers included. By no means I condone anything they do. However, my views on cheating will be inconsistent with a lot of hard-core vegans and some poo will surely fly my way.

Because of the artificial all-or-nothing approach, some people try being vegan, stray one day and go back to being vegetarian. Humans have difficulty dealing with scarcity. The psychology of scarcity is to seek immediate solution, which we know as cravings. Cravings, in turn, create tunneling. I recall when I first turned vegan some years ago (****, it's been a decade and I still consider myself a newbie), I spent a whole day thinking about how I'd love to have an omelet. We have limited cognitive space and bandwidth — as you devote more effort to dealing with scarcity you have less and less for other things in your life, some of which are very important for dealing with scarcity.

Best approach to any big transition via is via gradual changes and refinement. It's ok to cheat once in a while and go back to doing the right thing. Go ahead and cheat. By reducing your egg or dairy consumption down to a few cheat snacks, you have significantly reduced the amount of animal suffering. You have also reminded yourself that there is really nothing special about that little scarce commodity in your life. I recall reading a little study that most men who cheated on their wives admitted that sex outside of marriage was nothing special or even worse. Same goes for cheese.

You can gradually find a habit-stacking approach to reducing these cheats to zero. It might take years, but that's nothing to be afraid of - this is a life-long choice, not a crash diet.

 

[KLS52]

Hi Rory...I like Lou’s post. Not saying you shouldn’t continue to strive for giving up the cheese. I do sympathize with you, though. It’s been 15 years for me and I still cry inside when I see people eating meals loaded with cheese. Do the best you can with minimizing the amount you consume...for now. Maybe it will get easier as you go along. Set small goals...I don’t know how often you are eating cheese, but if it’s every day, you can try going 2-3 days without it. Then push it to a week, a month, and so on. It might help.

I don’t know if this is good advice or not. I just know that guilt never really helps. The guiltier I feel over my vegan failings, the more depressed I get and the more I crave the forbidden foods. I like to tell myself, I can have it if I want, and then I feel good when I resist.

Just keep trying.

 

[Hog]

"I am a 24-year old female who is on the autism spectrum." - Rory

I am a little autistic. My son is very autistic. In my opinion, being autistic really means that you have a relative strength in deductive logic. If we eliminated autism, then we would never have geniuses in math and physics. Every person in the world has a little bit of autism. Society can not function without autistic perception. Nobody would ever learn how learn how to balance their checking account without the ability to do deductive logic.

Similarly, almost nobody in the world is perfectly vegan. Everybody is somewhere on the vegan spectrum. Like autism, being vegan is not a binary state of zero or one. If you show me a perfect vegan, then I will show you God.

Striving to be a perfect vegan might be fun for a few hours at a time. But, it is not a practical reality. You would probably need to live in a nudist commune to have a shot at perfect veganism. I had teenage dreams of visiting a nudist commune for a few days at a time. Collecting berries with a cute naked lady sounded like fun to me. But, I am no longer a teenager with raging hormones.

According to PeTA: "Being vegan is about helping animals, not maintaining personal purity. Boycotting products that may contain trace amounts of animal products can actually be harmful to animals in the long run. For example, by refusing to eat a veggie burger from a restaurant because the bun may contain traces of milk or eggs, you are discouraging that restaurant from offering vegan options because it is seems too difficult a task."

 

[Nekodaiden]

(snip)

Similarly, almost nobody in the world is perfectly vegan. Everybody is somewhere on the vegan spectrum. Like autism, being vegan is not a binary state of zero or one. If you show me a perfect vegan, then I will show you God.

Striving to be a perfect vegan might be fun for a few hours at a time. But, it is not a practical reality. You would probably need to live in a nudist commune to have a shot at perfect veganism. I had teenage dreams of visiting a nudist commune for a few days at a time. Collecting berries with a cute naked lady sounded like fun to me. But, I am no longer a teenager with raging hormones.

According to PeTA: "Being vegan is about helping animals, not maintaining personal purity. Boycotting products that may contain trace amounts of animal products can actually be harmful to animals in the long run. For example, by refusing to eat a veggie burger from a restaurant because the bun may contain traces of milk or eggs, you are discouraging that restaurant from offering vegan options because it is seems too difficult a task."

Being a perfect vegan is not difficult if it's understood to be primarily a diet and not a larger underlying philosophy that encompasses many things. One simply does not eat animal products. For as long as you do this, by your own will and choice, you are a perfect vegan, at least from the dietary aspect.

However, if one wants to include those (pre-purchased) leather shoes or other apparel one might not want to get rid of, the issue of killing flies or other insects and invaders, protecting yourself in the wild from things like predators, determining the exact and right motives for abstaining (in all areas), patronizing X company with the purchase of vegan products (even though they sell non vegan as well) and whether or not eating almonds is a questionable offense....then yeah, by these considerations "perfect veganism" may seem like a lofty goal only a few reach.

I tend to think that all the additions (or at least the attention to them, especially when it comes to things like motive) are the focus of those who are failing in the diet area but still want to retain the label.

Btw, even though I quoted your post it was meant to be a general observation, not necessarily specific.

 

[Jaydoesitgood]

Hey there and welcome! Im also on the Autism spectrum and have something called anosmia (meaning I dont have a sense of smell so my taste is weird) so going full vegan was a struggle for me too. I cant of course tell you exactly the answer to your particular situation as im not you, but I can tell you what has helped me!
I dont know about you, but my biggest problem with trying new foods was texture. I still cannot stand the texture of 99.9% of beans and cheese is basically the best texture in the world in terms of getting your brain to turn off and go hog wild. Its fatty and salty which is all stuff your brain is programmed to LOVE so its gonna be hard to kick it permanently. Id say finding a fast and easy plant based food that makes your brain happy and keep that in your house as much as you can. For me, its peanut butter and jelly, not healthy, but its there and there for comfort, even if it isnt exactly what your brain is craving (like cheese). Having a vegan meal easily avalible that still makes your brain happy is a good way to keep your mind off cravnings and keep you fed without going out and getting mac and cheese or something. Everyone makes worse food decisions when they are hungry in my experience. So have your veggie comfort food on hand.

Be gentle with yourself as you transition. Transitioning isnt always a straight line and if you make mistakes the best thing you can do is do better with your next food choice!