Freaking Weird Israel Post Tweets

[cornsail]

Another day another conflict. We can define Israel and Palestine however we want, though it's kind of pointless to theorize about what we think is proper if there isn't anything we can do about it. It's like debating whether or not it would be better for a hurricane to turn left or turn right. Ultimately it's gonna go wherever the hell it feels like going. The only thing that could cause either Israel or Palestine to disappear is explosives.

And I hate to say it, but I don't believe for a second that any of the larger entities involved give a damn about either Israel or Palestine, at least not in the abstract. It's all about self interests. It always has been and it always will be. I'm not even criticizing that fact at this point, just stating it. We can display our humanity by sitting here and being sad over the fact that it's happening, but it's still gonna happen. And in this large scale game of chess Palestine is little more than a pawn of both sides of a larger conflict. A low risk way for Iran to test Israel's defensive and offensive capabilities. All they have to do is donate a few rockets then sit back and take notes. The same is true for Israel. They probably won't admit it but I'm sure it's convenient to have a few rockets fired into your country every once in a while so you know whether or not the systems you have in place are going to be effective before an actual threat comes along. And if one of those rockets is fortunate enough to find its way to a target (so long as it's a target of low strategic value), even better. Emotional response can be a valuable thing for an entity that knows how to use it.

http://www.warsintheworld.com/?page=static1325429228

And the person wanting to do a story on pets? Sure, she's a self interested ***, but that hardly makes her unique in the midst of what's going on here. There are bigger fish to fry.

Well the US can do something about it (I'm aware not everyone here is from the US, I'm just speaking to personal relevance). For starters it could at least stop doing the wrong things. There are international political issues with Israel and the Palestinian territories and public opinion does play a role in politics. So I don't think this is like discussing a hurricane. I agree that state powers tend to act in their own interest and to tend act immorally. Public opinion does play at least some role in what their own interest is, though.

 

[yakherder]

Well the US can do something about it (I'm aware not everyone here is from the US, I'm just speaking to personal relevance). For starters it could at least stop doing the wrong things. There are international political issues with Israel and the Palestinian territories and public opinion does play a role in politics. So I don't think this is like discussing a hurricane. I agree that state powers tend to act in their own interest and to tend act immorally. Public opinion does play at least some role in what their own interest is, though.

I suppose there are indeed things we can do to change the nature of what's going on, but our voice is only as strong as it is because we have the option of exerting violence of our own. In the end, the roads all seem to lead to the same conclusion, and any peace that happens in between is short lived.

Anyone wanna make any predictions as to how this cease fire is going to turn out (not counting the skirmish that already happened when a few Palestinians tried to cross)?

I probably sound like a hopeless violence prone *** And maybe I am. I just don't have much hope for things like this to turn out well. That link I posted above shows either armed conflict or a move intended to lead to armed conflict for almost every single day of the entire year. If we had that page going back 10,000 years or so it wouldn't look much different, and I doubt it will be much different 10,000 years into the future as well. Good to know I've got plenty of job security in the Army I guess.

 

[Second Summer]

You really think that if Israel ceased to exist, the Middle East would be all sunshine and light? Wow.

Not what I said.

I guess India and/or Pakistan should also be dissolved. And South Africa should have been done away with as a nation many decades ago.

I believe we were discussing Israel, but for some reason you guys seem desperate to instead talk about Native Americans, Indians and Pakistanis.

Gosh, we're going to have to find new places for many, many millions of people. Or maybe it would be easier to get it over and simply exterminate them.

I never said anything about relocating people. (Though I do think it would be nice with some fairness for the millions of Palestinians living in refugee camps that the world seems to have forgotten about.)

 

[cornsail]

I suppose there are indeed things we can do to change the nature of what's going on, but our voice is only as strong as it is because we have the option of exerting violence of our own. In the end, the roads all seem to lead to the same conclusion, and any peace that happens in between is short lived.

Well no, we could stop giving Israel so many weapons and stop vetoing every UN resolution that goes against Israel's interest and support Palestinian statehood as the majority of the world does. I don't think a two-state resolution would be too difficult to make happen if the US actually wanted it to, even without exerting violence.

 

[yakherder]

Well no, we could stop giving Israel so many weapons and stop vetoing every UN resolution that goes against Israel's interest and support Palestinian statehood as the majority of the world does. I don't think a two-state resolution would be too difficult to make happen if the US actually wanted it to, even without exerting violence.

I can't even begin to explain how much I'd like to agree, if only it were as simple as what's right and what's wrong. But again, this isn't really about Israel and Palestine, it's about that real life game of chess that's been going on from the second humanity became "civilized" and felt the need to establish boundaries, plant seeds, and secure resources rather than roaming around as egalitarian gatherers. What Israel represents here is an easily defensible fortress in the midst of a highly volatile but resource rich area. Regardless of what our hearts tell us would be ethical to do, it would be a strategic blunder to let it go. All involved will continue to play this political game, pretending like they give a damn about Palestinian and Israeli civilians that get caught up in it, in order to maintain that advantageous position. Israel could probably dump napalm on kindergartens without losing our support, though naturally we'd rather it not come to that because we want to maintain as much face as we possibly can in that support.

 

[Lord Snot]

I'm making less of a comment on the political state than saying that this lady is effing nuts.

The death of people matters much more than pets freaking out. Don't take that as a statement of inequality between people and animals, because if it were people complaining about the noise, it'd still be just as much less of a story than the people who are dying.

I don't think she's crazy at all. She doesn't own the paper, she's been told by her employers to write a story about pets and fireworks (or at least told what kind of topic to work on) and she's doing that. Perhaps on September 12th 2001 the major US papers were cover-to-cover about it, but I'm sure on the 13th they were 50% about the attacks and 50% their usual mix of stories, perhaps with the more humorous ones taken out.

 

[FortyTwo]

I don't think she's crazy at all. She doesn't own the paper, she's been told by her employers to write a story about pets and fireworks (or at least told what kind of topic to work on) and she's doing that. Perhaps on September 12th 2001 the major US papers were cover-to-cover about it, but I'm sure on the 13th they were 50% about the attacks and 50% their usual mix of stories, perhaps with the more humorous ones taken out.

She responded directly, though, and completely glossed over the fact that people were dying.

 

[Second Summer]

Heck, they even kill each other over sub-ethnicity (e.g. Sunni vs Shiite)

And what about the religion-based discrimination in the Middle East - Muslim vs. everyone else. Certainly the various Arab states favor Islam over Judaism or Christianity. If we followed you logic to its conclusion, then all of them should be dissolved.

Israel has a peculiar immigration law that favours Jews over everyone else. While the millions of displaced Palestinians and their descendants from what is now Israel are not allowed to return to their homes, Jews can immigrate and become citizens even if they have no proven relationship to the area. Additionally, Palestinian citizens of Israel are faced with discriminatory land and housing policies, and their needs are systematically disregarded. (This is of course on top of the discrimination the Israelis are responsible for in the occupied West Bank with the illegal settlements, the roads and infrastructure, the checkpoints and the wall.) 20% of the Israeli population are Palestinians. How many other ME nations have institutionalised racism on a similar scale?

 

[ledboots]

.nvm

 

[Ansciess]

How many other ME nations have institutionalised racism on a similar scale?

Try sexism. How about adult women being forced to have a male guardian with rights over her (like if she can travel or open a bank account). How about not being able to drive or vote. How about being honor killed if a man in your family feels you embarrassed him.

Frankly, in general I'd rather be a Palestinian man (because Palestinian men can honor kill their women too) than a Saudi woman.

I have trouble supporting cultures which find honor killing acceptable.

The Palestinian Authority, using a clause in the Jordanian penal code still in effect in the West Bank, exempts men from punishment for killing a female relative if she has brought dishonor to the family.[63] Mahmoud Abbas, President of the Palestinian Authority, promised to change the discriminatory law, but no action had been taken as of 2012. According to UNICEF, in 2000 two-thirds of all killings in the Palestinian territories were honor killings.[64] The Palestinian Independent Commission for Human Rights has reported 29 women were killed 2007-2010, whereas 13 women were killed in 2011 and 12 in the first seven months of 2012.[65]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing