Good question. I think I need to be able to live reasonably comfortably but, within comfortable boundaries I will do all that I can. I find that the more I do, the more the boundaries shift and make it easier to do even more so who knows where it all ends.How far does your ethical veganism extend? Would you, for example, decide on having no children because of what humans do to the natural world?
True, but they may not want to be vegan, or ethical, which makes them a bit of a gamble. There's also the fact that even by living as an ethical vegan you'd probably have a more detrimental effect overall than a positive one.you can have vegan, responsible, ethical children that contribute more to society than they detract.
or not have children and therefore reduce population growth and not use valuable resources.
True. Children are a bit of a roll of the dice. Maybe you just have one but she has 8!True, but they may not want to be vegan, or ethical, which makes them a bit of a gamble. There's also the fact that even by living as an ethical vegan you'd probably have a more detrimental effect overall than a positive one.
Yes, one is enough these days. You can't begrudge a couple one child ... even if it does grow up to be a cannibalistic serial killer!True. Children are a bit of a roll of the dice. Maybe you just have one but she has 8!
A good father will usually provide good children. The problems are usually on the y chromosome so if the father has problems in some way, he's likely to pass them on. Remember that no matter how good you are, nature/nurture is usually around 50/50.Hello
This subject is very philosophic, and there are a lot of different points of view about it. Personally, I am not sure that I want to become a mother one day. I have dreams that I want to fulfill, sand at this moment children are not in the picture. If I will ever get pregnant, I will keep the baby and I will try my best to raise him or her to be a good person.
Meghan
We should all liberate animals from the death camps no matter if it's legal or not!How far does your ethical veganism extend? Would you, for example, decide on having no children because of what humans do to the natural world?
I agree. Not to do so makes us no better than those who collaborated with the Nazis.We should all liberate animals from the death camps no matter if it's legal or not!
The problems of this world, and there are many, will not be solved by unborn children. I believe that humans are the worst thing that has happened to this earth, but problems need to be solved and if no one is here, admittedly that's the best outcome but, if you want the human race to survive we need children brought up and educated in a proper manner with vegan and green issues at the top of the list. My father wrote the philosophy of veganism even before the Vegan Soc. existed and was one of the three founder members. It was adopted with small variations and has since been updated over the years as ideas change. I was born in 1942 and as far as I am aware was the first vegan child in the UK. I knew and met all the early vegans and every one of them was vegan for moral and animal welfare reasons. Today there are other reason people change. I don't mind that as long as they are vegan it's good for the planet and animals. What their philosophy is about veganism I don't know but whatever it is is fine with me. Not all things in life are governed by philosophy.How far does your ethical veganism extend? Would you, for example, decide on having no children because of what humans do to the natural world?
Why would we specifically want the human race to survive? To whom or what would it give any advantage?but, if you want the human race to survive we need children brought up and educated in a proper manner with vegan and green issues at the top of the list.
In many ways I agree, however, those who don’t care about the planet will most likely continue to reproduce.Why would we specifically want the human race to survive? To whom or what would it give any advantage?
I can't see any advantages to the human race being here as it is, other than in the distant future we may one day be able to get off this dying planet and somehow take the genetic information of many other species with us; therefore saving them. Our presence also enables us to help other species if we so wish, but considering the harm we cause in our current state, that's a no brainer. However, if all humans were ethical vegans then the help we provided to animals would far outweigh the harm.Why would we specifically want the human race to survive? To whom or what would it give any advantage?
If you even noticed I said "IF" you want the human race to survive. I wasn't saying I do or that anyone else should say I do, or not as the case may be. It was not a statement, more of an option. Personally I don't. This planet would be a lot better off without us. I think this is a question of whether you think we're gods chosen children or not. Being atheist I have an unbiased opinion.Why would we specifically want the human race to survive? To whom or what would it give any advantage?
I agree, we have to be optimistic and support the good in the world. However, how much of this good is actually altruistic. In my opinion, much of the concerns centered around ecology and environmentalism seem to be more concerned about saving the human race and pleasures it obtains from the natural world. I may be wrong but considering that humans kills around 70 billion animals a year for food and pleasure, not including sea life and the millions they torture to death every year in laboratories. I'm not even going to go to the horrendous atrocities humans perpetrate against each other, but think of the Yemen at the moment for example. Therefore, I really don't see much good in the vast majority of people. And, in respect of global warming and the havoc we have brought to the planet and the natural world, humans would never have let it get this far if the majority of us had ever been good.I'm honestly surprised at the misanthropy here. Any other species, given the power to procreate and consume as unconstrained by ecological limitations as humanity, would also be catastrophic for the environment. The vast majority of our negative impact isn't the result of something uniquely bad in humans. But our concern about our impacts and our efforts to save other species and ecosystems is the result of something uniquely good in us. And the only way forward I see is to foster the compassion and values driving those efforts, rather than fostering a species level self-loathing that accomplishes nothing.
I agree, we have to be optimistic and support the good in the world. However, how much of this good is actually altruistic. In my opinion, much of the concerns centered around ecology and environmentalism seem to be more concerned about saving the human race and pleasures it obtains from the natural world. I may be wrong but considering that humans kills around 70 billion animals a year for food and pleasure, not including sea life and the millions they torture to death every year in laboratories. I'm not even going to go to the horrendous atrocities humans perpetrate against each other, but think of the Yemen at the moment for example. Therefore, I really don't see much good in the vast majority of people. And, in respect of global warming and the havoc we have brought to the planet and the natural world, humans would never have let it get this far if the majority of us had ever been good.Sax said:
I'm honestly surprised at the misanthropy here. Any other species, given the power to procreate and consume as unconstrained by ecological limitations as humanity, would also be catastrophic for the environment. The vast majority of our negative impact isn't the result of something uniquely bad in humans. But our concern about our impacts and our efforts to save other species and ecosystems is the result of something uniquely good in us. And the only way forward I see is to foster the compassion and values driving those efforts, rather than fostering a species level self-loathing that accomplishes nothing.
Good points. I may need to bone up on my Aristotle.I agree, we have to be optimistic and support the good in the world. However, how much of this good is actually altruistic. In my opinion, much of the concerns centered around ecology and environmentalism seem to be more concerned about saving the human race and pleasures it obtains from the natural world. I may be wrong but considering that humans kills around 70 billion animals a year for food and pleasure, not including sea life and the millions they torture to death every year in laboratories. I'm not even going to go to the horrendous atrocities humans perpetrate against each other, but think of the Yemen at the moment for example. Therefore, I really don't see much good in the vast majority of people. And, in respect of global warming and the havoc we have brought to the planet and the natural world, humans would never have let it get this far if the majority of us had ever been good.