Do you think all animal slaughter and meat should be banned?

Rory17

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Hello 👋,
I think that meat and animal slaughter should be banned and, maybe, animals (including all birds, mammals, reptiles, amphibians, fish and other sentient beings) given the same legal protections and importance as humans by law. Do you think sentient insects, if they are out there, should be included in this?
Did Bhutan 🇧🇹 do something similar?
Thank you 😊.
 

JessikaM

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I believe all animal products should be illegal because of the victim involved. Bugs I just don't know much about, but yes if it is comparable then it should be illegal.
 

Mischief

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Hello 👋,
I think that meat and animal slaughter should be banned and, maybe, animals (including all birds, mammals, reptiles, amphibians, fish and other sentient beings) given the same legal protections and importance as humans by law. Do you think sentient insects, if they are out there, should be included in this?
Did Bhutan 🇧🇹 do something similar?
Thank you 😊.
How are you defining "sentient"?
 
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Lou

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Well sure. but I don't think that is a reasonable goal.

There are many things that we can do as individuals. Like being vegan.
Supporting PETA or any other animal rights group, too.

I don't know of any politicians who have animal rights on their agenda but thanks to climate change we may see some more politicians who don't promote meat consumption. (Don't hold your breath waiting for Trump to stop eating McDonald's. but I think someday AOC and Bernie may go vegan).

Right now the most reasonable and attainable goal is to elect politicians who don't support Big Ag. The animal livestock industry is heavily subsidized in the USA. I've seen many articles that try to estimate the price of milk and meat without tax subsidies. They rarely agree, but they all agree that it would cause a significant price increase on meat and milk. This is widely seen as a "regressive tax"* and therefore not popular - even with progressives. But IMHO a reduction of subsidies with a decrease in taxes AND some re-education could be tolerated if not accepted.


* the reason that is that its seen as regressive is the argument that everybody has to eat. so a rise in the price of meat and milk would be harder on poor people than on rich people. My counter-argument is that sure everybody has to eat. But it doesn't have to be meat. But a lot of re-education has to take place if that is ever going to fly.

Hey. I just thought of a way we could sell this to the Republicans. If poor people ate less meat than their drag on the health care system would be reduced.

NVM. If people ate less meat Big Ag wouldn't make as much money. and then they would stop supporting Republicans. It would just be easier to stop subsidizing health care.
 
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I think banning causing unnecessary harm to animals (and consequently banning almost all meat) is a morally justifiable argument, and probably true, but you can't ban something that is important to many people and wouldn't command majority support. I do think calling for a ban on factory farming is more realistic as a goal at this stage than some people might think. It would take at least some years to have a chance of success, but in the meantime might lead to some arguments and welfare improvements.
 
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Never heard of Palitana until I saw this but just went to the top of my bucket list. Looks awesome. I also would live to see Bhutan, perhaps you could travel between them! I think I'll put that at the top of my "cool things that I will never actually do" list. Now, how am I going to get there? Long haul flights just for a holiday are out in the era of global warming, so perhaps a nice relaxing overland route from Europe in an electric car via Israel, Palestine, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and disputed areas around the Pakistan/India border. I am sure that will be fine.

I wonder what Palitana is really like, though. Maybe half of the population are buying meat in the next town and sneaking it in. Plus meat is important in the culture and even religion of Islam, some interpretations of the religion have it not just as something you can eat, but something you should eat. So it could be another example of Indian majority trying to put their will onto the Muslim minority.

This is the best article I found about the place, although it's about the temple walk: https://www.lostwithpurpose.com/pilgrimage-palitana/

All the journalist articles are puff pieces put together with a google search and no visit to the town or interviews.
 
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Nekodaiden

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Hello 👋,
I think that meat and animal slaughter should be banned and,

I think the willful and malicious taking of one human's life by another, also known as murder, should be banned. This view is widely held by the majority of humans in civil societies. The ban on murder along with major societal disapproval helps keep murders lower, but they still happen.

Currently, most of society does not disapprove of animal slaughter, or if they do, they selectively ignore it or excuse it. You have to have society
on your side when you ban something, or it has 0 chance of being even marginally effective.




maybe, animals (including all birds, mammals, reptiles, amphibians, fish and other sentient beings) given the same legal protections and importance as humans by law. Do you think sentient insects, if they are out there, should be included in this?
Did Bhutan 🇧🇹 do something similar?
Thank you 😊.

No. I do not believe in the unnecessary use or abuse of animals, but the position you suggest is extreme and untenable.
 

Forest Nymph

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I think the willful and malicious taking of one human's life by another, also known as murder, should be banned. This view is widely held by the majority of humans in civil societies. The ban on murder along with major societal disapproval helps keep murders lower, but they still happen.

Currently, most of society does not disapprove of animal slaughter, or if they do, they selectively ignore it or excuse it. You have to have society
on your side when you ban something, or it has 0 chance of being even marginally effective.

Actually that's not true. There's a 3.5% rule in social justice activism, you don't even have to have half the population on your side. Abolition of slavery, women's rights to vote, civil rights, gay marriage and abortion rights were all examples of things that the majority of (powerful) society once opposed.

It would be easiest to ban factory farms because most people oppose them in theory, at least, including people who consume animal products from them.

Next would be meat for environmental reasons, but probably before that, a meat tax.

In California fur and animal testing have been banned, and increasingly major companies are cruelty free. The US has bipartisan support for making abject animal cruelty a felony. Getting factory farms under that proposed federal law combined with climate concerns about meat make this more plausible than it sounds. Groups like PETA and DXE actively work to change laws, and would especially focus on getting farmed animals under the federal cruelty law. That's what Rose's Law is about - not the rights of mosquitoes.
 
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Hog

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A ban on animal slaughter would cause worldwide depression and government instability. We use animal products to produce steel, tires, and grocery bags.

People give me blank looks when I talk about animal cruelty. In my not too distant carnivore past, I would joke, "That pig suffered greatly so that I may indulge in meat tonight." The joke got lots of laughs. As a carnivore, I owned up to the fact that I contributed to animal suffering. I was honest with myself in some sort of perverted way. I doubt that most people make the connection between meat and animal suffering.

Our state of denial about animal abuse shows me that we are capable of believing just about anything no matter how strange or outrageous. Historians will view archived copies of veganforum.com and realize that vegans in 2019 were way ahead of their time. The animal rights movement is far more historically important than any other civil rights movement. Unfortunately, nobody will perceive the significance of the movement for at least another hundred years.
 

Max Caulfield

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Ideally yes, realistically no.

1. I don't think animals should have protections equal to humans. In first place, it would be pointless at best and counter-productive at worst. I mean, animals would be unable to appreciate such protections as freedom of expression, freedom from slavery (ownership), property rights etc. Legal protections should extent punishing deliberately causing or deliberately exposing animal at significant physical injury, or mental distress that would have significant negative impact on well-being of such animal.

2. We yet have to address and solve some of uses of animal products in society in the first place. For an example some of the pets like cats are obligatory carnivores and from I'm aware there is no solid research done that would establish vegan substitutes as suitable food for such animals.What leaves you in a predicament if you want to ban methods of obtaining such food, there are 2 options. You'd could to attempt feed such animals with vegan food, such experiment would in all likelihood go poorly.You could also release such pets to the wilderness/streets where they would fare very poorly due to not being adjusted, exposed to many dangers, disturb ecosystem and in case of urban environment cause issues in the society, not to mention many people would be quite unwilling to get rid of their pets.In addition to that, as wonder pointed there are many products in society that are created with animal product, so important questions need to be asked are there substitutes that could be used to create product, how important is the product in itself, how effective such non-animal product would, what are the costs compared to animal version of the product and if non-animal product can be reliably produced to satisfy demand.

3. I don't think there is a reliable evidence to conclude that everyone would be able to preform satisfactory on a vegan diet and some research does point to a correlation with higher risk of suffering from some mental illnesses such as depression on a vegan diet. We don't know cause of that, so we can't rule out possibility of significant increase being caused by diet. Not to mention in terms of anecdotes fair number people do claim to suffer from negative effects while on a vegan diet, whether due to poor choice of food, eating habits or dietary restriction of animal products is another matter but can't rule possibility it may not be good for everyone.

4.As I've explained in other topic, presently population wouldn't go with it, politicians with such proposal wouldn't be able to get it done and their career as politician would likely be over.

There are more issues that could be brought up such as regarding environment .

I would say there are a lot of questions that we need to answer and issues to address before deciding on such change.
 
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Dillon Holub

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Очень жаль всех животных. Коровы, свиньи. Жаль, что их любят только из-за мяса и колбас
 

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Очень жаль всех животных. Коровы, свиньи. Жаль, что их любят только из-за мяса и колбас

This translates into something like: Very sorry for all the animals. Cows, pigs. It’s a pity that they are loved only because of meat and sausages
 

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Since I'm not sure what "banning" would even mean, I think the best approach is to make being veg*n appear to be an easy and wonderful life choice - which we all know it to be! It also means being happy, self-reliant postitive examples, including trying to be as healthy (physically and mentally) as possible.
 
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