Concerns over being vegan/vegetarian

shyvas

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By blended beans, do you mean blending tins of beans and adding to the gluten flour, then cooking? Or is it blended bean flour?

Yeah, have to admit, we don't eat enough dark leafy greens. We eat spinach sometimes, but not enough. I'm quite partial to buttered spinach, but the kids hate it! We have vegetables with every dinner - but it's always either broccoli, cauliflower, peas, sweetcorn or carrots. We are growing chard in the poly tunnel so will be using that soon.

Have you tried making creamy spinach bake or croquettes? The latter has a very mild taste and it pairs well with the cashew cream and vegan cheese. You can also add some raw spinach to strawberry smoothies.
 
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Lou

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@drummerboy

I really appreciate your questions, input, and nature.
I hope you stick around.

I really don't have much to add to this conversation but you might want to check out the cookbook Deceptively Delicious by Jessica Simpson.

Its gotten a few knocks in that some people think we should be teaching kids to like vegetables. But I think her recipes are a good idea - maybe not all the time but..

The main gist of it is to disguise vegetables and other healthy foods in stuff kids like. A lot of blended dishes. You don't even have to buy the book or even take it out of the library - there are a lot of recipes you can find on online for free. but if you like it you should buy it or at least check it out.

Its not a vegan cookbook but most of the recipes can be made vegan.

She has a new cookbook called Vegan at Times. I haven't seen it yet.

 
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drummerboy

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@drummerboy

I really appreciate your questions, input, and nature.
I hope you stick around.

I really don't have much to add to this conversation but you might want to check out the cookbook Deceptively Delicious by Jessica Simpson.

Its gotten a few knocks in that some people think we should be teaching kids to like vegetables. But I think her recipes are a good idea - maybe not all the time but..

The main gist of it is to disguise vegetables and other healthy foods in stuff kids like. A lot of blended dishes. You don't even have to buy the book or even take it out of the library - there are a lot of recipes you can find on online for free. but if you like it you should buy it or at least check it out.

Its not a vegan cookbook but most of the recipes can be made vegan.

She has a new cookbook called Vegan at Times. I haven't seen it yet.


Many thanks. To be honest, this is something I should have vested more time into before now. I don't mean to cause offence to people who are Vegan, but when my partner decided she didn't want the children to eat meat and to stick with soya because of my eldest's dairy intolerance, I was worried, and it's something that's always been in the back of my head.

My family are very critical of it, and each time we have food with them or just talk food, the vegan topic always comes up and my partner gets very defensive and upset. My brother who is a chef, used to bake and make some foods for us, and he admitted last year he always used butter and milk despite us asking for stuff stuff to be vegan.

From a personal point of view, I'm pretty tired on a daily basis but I don't know if that's down to the fact I suffer from anxiety and some depression. Worrying about this doesn't help! I've had blood tests over the last few years, and everything has been ok.

Unfortunately, I read about a vegan guy on Facebook today who is plant based, but fell ill last year - brain fog, fatigue and random pains. He was deficient in a few vitamins and iron, and ended up eating liver to bring himself back to full health. So it's a constant battle in my head whether to trust this lifestyle or not. I also have quite a few friends on facebook who are farmers, who very often share anti-vegan posts about malnutrition etc.

Sorry for rambling, but I haven't really had many supportive people to talk to about this!

P.S. I thought it was Jessica Simpson the singer who wrote the book!! Some of the recipe's look really nice on her website, and disguising veg is a must at times!
 
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feather

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@drummerboy hopefully this group will help. Surround yourself with good support and make vegan friends. I joined 5 facebook groups to help me with getting used to everything, and finding good information. We all run into the anti-vegan stuff with some friends with some family. There are also vegan groups at Spark people that have groups. I joined a McDougall group there. Everyone is pretty helpful, recipes, ideas, knowledge sharing, videos. Support!

If you have concerns on B12, have it tested. Check also your methyl malonic acid MMA, folate, and Homocysteine level. If your doctor won't check it, can you have it checked on your own out of pocket? Doctors often miss this deficiency. The problem isn't the diet, it's that people don't understand it and doctors miss the diagnosis. I have a video on that if you want to watch it.
 
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drummerboy

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@drummerboy hopefully this group will help. Surround yourself with good support and make vegan friends. I joined 5 facebook groups to help me with getting used to everything, and finding good information. We all run into the anti-vegan stuff with some friends with some family. There are also vegan groups at Spark people that have groups. I joined a McDougall group there. Everyone is pretty helpful, recipes, ideas, knowledge sharing, videos. Support!

If you have concerns on B12, have it tested. Check also your methyl malonic acid MMA, folate, and Homocysteine level. If your doctor won't check it, can you have it checked on your own out of pocket? Doctors often miss this deficiency. The problem isn't the diet, it's that people don't understand it and doctors miss the diagnosis. I have a video on that if you want to watch it.

Thanks. I've joined the town and county vegan group, there's a lot of great people on there, although I haven't gotten greatly involved myself.

I don't have major concerns over B12, but I have bought some B12 supplements today along with Algal omega instead of the Tesco branded 3,6+9. Better be safe than sorry. I last had blood tests around 1.5 years ago, but I used to suffer fatigue back then as well. The doctor said it was my anxious mind and depression making me tired. If I was deficient in MMA, folate, and Homocysteine, what would be the remedy/cure?

Do people here take multi-vits, omega and b12 (or other things) on a daily basis like recommended? Even though I make sure the children take them, I'm a bit lazy about it myself.
 
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feather

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@drummerboy, when you had your B12 measured, was it in the normal range. If it was low in the normal range, but you were tired then too, then I'd pursue getting more information. Not everyone can digest/metabolize B12 and B12 in the low normal range may be an issue.

I take B12, D3, and am considering a small dose of iodine but I'm on the fence.
Here's a video about B12. This is an old video. It isn't using medical studies and research (they aren't telling you which studies or research) but THEY ARE out there if you look. They will describe what to look for with the other measurements: MMA, homocysteine, folate level.
Warning, one hour of your life if you watch it.

This is where I get a lot of information, Dr Geiger, his sources of medical studies and research are listed below his videos. Look for other video's that he does.
 
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Lou

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P.S. I thought it was Jessica Simpson the singer who wrote the book!! Some of the recipe's look really nice on her website, and disguising veg is a must at times!
OH. Shoot! I wrote Jessica Simpson by mistake.
The author of the book is Jessica Seinfeld. Jerry's wife.
So sorry.
 
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drummerboy

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@drummerboy, when you had your B12 measured, was it in the normal range. If it was low in the normal range, but you were tired then too, then I'd pursue getting more information. Not everyone can digest/metabolize B12 and B12 in the low normal range may be an issue.

I take B12, D3, and am considering a small dose of iodine but I'm on the fence.
Here's a video about B12. This is an old video. It isn't using medical studies and research (they aren't telling you which studies or research) but THEY ARE out there if you look. They will describe what to look for with the other measurements: MMA, homocysteine, folate level.
Warning, one hour of your life if you watch it.

This is where I get a lot of information, Dr Geiger, his sources of medical studies and research are listed below his videos. Look for other video's that he does.

I don't know the exact results, I was tested for various things - I was having lots of bowel problems, and eventually diagnosed with IBS. The only thing that was flagged was a high liver enzyme, which corrected itself on the next set of bloods.

I could ring up the GP and ask to have a look back on my results, I guess I do have some of the symptoms - fatigue and irritability, both of which I thought were caused by anxiety and depression. But maybe B12 deficiency is actually behind that? Hmm.....I'm quite concerned now! Having looked up B12 deficiency it's a lot scarier than I thought!

However I have put about a stone on in weight over the last year (not happy about it at all!), and says that B12 deficiency usually causes weight loss?
 
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feather

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@drummerboy you have suspicions but nothing concrete, some symptoms, SO, think of looking into this with your doctor as homework, tweaking the diet to make it work for you. I come from a long line of B12 deficient carnivores, some drink, some don't. B12 helped them a lot, some had to get b12 shots, that is an option too.
 
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drummerboy

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@drummerboy you have suspicions but nothing concrete, some symptoms, SO, think of looking into this with your doctor as homework, tweaking the diet to make it work for you. I come from a long line of B12 deficient carnivores, some drink, some don't. B12 helped them a lot, some had to get b12 shots, that is an option too.

Thanks, no I know, but I have a habit of jumping to conclusions!

I'll say this quietly as well, since I was a teenager I've suffered with hypochondria/health anxiety. And I don't mean having the odd worry about health issues now and again, I mean full blown panic attacks over lumps and sensations. I'm much better now, but it reached it's worst a few years ago. I have easily spent 3/4 hours per day googling health issues in the past. Three years ago I had a sigmoidoscopy, 3 ECG's, a heart scan and 4 blood tests in 12 months! I'm quite ashamed of it, but I laugh a bit looking back at some of the things I used to do - self checking, googling, ringing out of hours. It's because of all this my partner won't entertain my worries about the vegan diet - boy who cried wolf etc!
 
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feather

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@drummerboy that's no sin. I do a lot of homework, to understand things, so I finally know what I'm doing and what is best for me and for my husband. I just want to make sure I'm doing a pretty good job and we both feel well. If I was anxious or panicked, then, I'd do more homework. Doctors are great but not perfect, they are just human too. The internet has been a huge blessing in regards to health. It's important to use good sources of information though, there's a lot of not good information out there too. Be as wise as you can and sort that out.

I'll tell you a little story that happened to us. My husband, with no history of cardiac problems had a heart attack one day early in the morning. Then I was panicked for about 6 months. During that time, I did a lot of homework. I decided I would research on the internet for 1 to 3 hours per day, every morning until we understood the issues that brought us here, and what to do about it. It took me at least a month to get a beginning handle on it, some solutions. We discussed them, moved forward. He switched diets in the first couple of days after the attack. We found a wfpb's doctor on the internet and followed his advice, that doctor is Esselstyn. There's a lot more to the story but I do understand how you may feel. I call it homework. 2 years of it. If I need to, I do more homework.
 
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drummerboy

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@drummerboy that's no sin. I do a lot of homework, to understand things, so I finally know what I'm doing and what is best for me and for my husband. I just want to make sure I'm doing a pretty good job and we both feel well. If I was anxious or panicked, then, I'd do more homework. Doctors are great but not perfect, they are just human too. The internet has been a huge blessing in regards to health. It's important to use good sources of information though, there's a lot of not good information out there too. Be as wise as you can and sort that out.

Yeah, well that's the problem, there's so much info out there and what to believe. It's a minefield for an anxious mind like me and I probably should refrain from googling and looking things up.

I have always thought that eating eggs would have protected me from B12 deficiency, but maybe not.
 
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feather

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@drummerboy you have symptoms but we still don't know if B12 is the issue. It could be something else, take some time and see what you learn.

Sort the internet information by its quality. Stop reading the media, stop reading advertising, stop watching advertising. Find serious doctors talking about serious medical studies and research. Check to make sure they aren't sponsored by industries/companies.
The first video will give you possibilities of some things that can sometimes be attributed to B12 deficiency.
The second video will give you a method of working through the question. What to test for, what to work with your doctor on, if that doesn't answer the question, he has another video on what to do next.
 
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Yeah, well that's the problem, there's so much info out there and what to believe. It's a minefield for an anxious mind like me and I probably should refrain from googling and looking things up.

I have always thought that eating eggs would have protected me from B12 deficiency, but maybe not.
.
The minefield can be avoided by making an appointment with a Registered Dietitian who specializes in vegetarian/vegan nutrition. RD's will work with you and your physician to address your health issues.
.
 

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By blended beans, do you mean blending tins of beans and adding to the gluten flour, then cooking? Or is it blended bean flour?

Yeah, have to admit, we don't eat enough dark leafy greens. We eat spinach sometimes, but not enough. I'm quite partial to buttered spinach, but the kids hate it! We have vegetables with every dinner - but it's always either broccoli, cauliflower, peas, sweetcorn or carrots. We are growing chard in the poly tunnel so will be using that soon.
I do mean blending, or processing in a food mill, chickpeas (or other cooked beans).
I like to add cooked beans or tofu that's been processed with enough liquid to a pudding/soft custard consistency and adding the vital wheat gluten to it till it's absorbed. I like the texture

I bring up low oxalate greens as they're so good for calcium
 

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It sounds like you are doing quite well and probably know more about nutrition than those criticising you.

Any hesitation about giving your kids vegan foods may be due to society's resistance to change and its influence on you.

Make sure they get sufficient calcium. Kids are in the bone and teeth growing phase; it may help.
 
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shyvas

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It sounds like you are doing quite well and probably know more about nutrition than those criticising you.

Any hesitation about giving your kids vegan foods may be due to society's resistance to change and its influence on you.

Make sure they get sufficient calcium. Kids are in the bone and teeth growing phase; it may help.

Yes, a very good cook indeed.
 
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drummerboy

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Hi all, thought about starting another thread on this, but thought may as well chuck it in here.

I'm a member of a vegan v omni debate group on Facebook - I will probably leave it soon because it's mainly just constant arguing of how bad a vegan diet is, and it's just vegans defending themselves against an onslaught of abuse.

A few points which have made me think, and looking for the truth on;

Cellulose. A few meat eating members claim that humans cannot absorb plant nutrients because they contain cellulose - which humans cant digest. This goes for all plants. I've researched it, and they are correct, we cannot digest cellulose. So what is the actual point in eating plants?

Algal Oil. The kids and us take algal oil supplements for the EPA+DHA, but some people have claimed this is carcinogenic because algae absorb toxic substances in the sea. And, Algae is made of cellulose which we cannot absorb anyway!

Finally, and this is a sensitive topic. Someone else claimed that vegan diets will stunt children, and cause problems with eyes because we cannot absorb vitamin A through plants. Now this has made me think, because both of our daughters are quite long sighted. My partner was vegetarian throughout the first pregnancy, but my daughter had a dairy intolerance/allergy so we went dairy free and remained that with our second daughter. My partner was always very conscientious, and took good quality vitamins and supplements throughout supplements and always made sure she ate enough and good nutrition. Most of the women in my side of the family are very long sighted, aunty, 1st cousin, my gran, great aunty etc so I always thought it was in the genes. But I'm starting to think is it just a coincidence that they're both long sighted and us being veggie/vegan. Their eye health has always been great, and I assumed vitamin A deficiency would affect eye health rather than sightedness.

Can someone clear these points up for me before I make myself made with overthinking!
 
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Cellulose. A few meat eating members claim that humans cannot absorb plant nutrients because they contain cellulose - which humans cant digest. This goes for all plants. I've researched it, and they are correct, we cannot digest cellulose. So what is the actual point in eating plants?
Cellulose is fibre. It is indigestible but it has other uses such as reducing cholesterol and keeping you regular on the toilet. I would go as far as to say it is an essential part of our diet.
 

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Cellulose is fibre. It is indigestible but it has other uses such as reducing cholesterol and keeping you regular on the toilet. I would go as far as to say it is an essential part of our diet.

What about the nutrients and vitamins in plants? How do we absorb those if we cannot actually digest plants?