A New Framing of Being Vegetarian & Vegan

[Jamie in Chile]

This is loosely related to some of my previous thoughts on similar topics, I wanted to get your thoughts on it.

I think being vegetarian - and perhaps doing a few key vegan things as well like not wearing leather or eating factory-farmed eggs - is something that everyone should do as a moral baseline. Eating meat is wrong, and you shouldn't ever do it in the same way that you should not commit crimes like stealing or arson. It's not acceptable to say that you only commit arson once a week, and meat is the same.

Being vegan is more like aspirational. It is like giving money to charities, actively supporting social justice causes, recycling absolutely everything, or being extremely nice and never once losing your temper. Better if you can do it some or most of the time, but shouldn't be expected or considered wrong if you don't do it, and doesn't seem right to come under a lot of pressure to do it.

 

[1956]

This is loosely related to some of my previous thoughts on similar topics, I wanted to get your thoughts on it.

I think being vegetarian - and perhaps doing a few key vegan things as well like not wearing leather or eating factory-farmed eggs - is something that everyone should do as a moral baseline. Eating meat is wrong, and you shouldn't ever do it in the same way that you should not commit crimes like stealing or arson. It's not acceptable to say that you only commit arson once a week, and meat is the same.

Being vegan is more like aspirational. It is like giving money to charities, actively supporting social justice causes, recycling absolutely everything, or being extremely nice and never once losing your temper. Better if you can do it some or most of the time, but shouldn't be expected or considered wrong if you don't do it, and doesn't seem right to come under a lot of pressure to do it.

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion @Jamie in Chile - but I and Many other people manage to remain Vegan without feeling any pressure.
In one sense it is Aspirational - simply because so many of the products that are part of Everyday life are not Vegan! However, when it comes to food, clothing and personal hygiene products being Vegan is Not all that difficult… It’s more of a matter of is My taste More important than the Life of an Animal… For me, the answer is Always that the life of the Animal is More important.

 

[4silva]

This is loosely related to some of my previous thoughts on similar topics, I wanted to get your thoughts on it.

I think being vegetarian - and perhaps doing a few key vegan things as well like not wearing leather or eating factory-farmed eggs - is something that everyone should do as a moral baseline. Eating meat is wrong, and you shouldn't ever do it in the same way that you should not commit crimes like stealing or arson. It's not acceptable to say that you only commit arson once a week, and meat is the same.

Being vegan is more like aspirational. It is like giving money to charities, actively supporting social justice causes, recycling absolutely everything, or being extremely nice and never once losing your temper. Better if you can do it some or most of the time, but shouldn't be expected or considered wrong if you don't do it, and doesn't seem right to come under a lot of pressure to do it.

I 100% agree with the premise--but it is not vegan.
Plant foods will never win over omnivore diets if they don't become normalized, and for most people, vegan is far from the top of their concerns. There are many many concerns.
Many vegans seem upset over Kevin Bacons new ad campaign, but to me, it can do more than any 'meat is murder' PETA ad

 

[Jamie in Chile]

I heard about this (Kevin Bean) on the Good News podcast, which I put in my podcast choices because I seemed to have a lot of serious ones.

I think it's a good thing. "Replace meat with beans" might not sound very attractive though. It might help if you show someone an easy to prepare plate of beans and other things mixed together maybe. Or maybe "replace meat with any one of these various plant food options, including this burger that tastes the same as meat".

 

[Emma JC]

I love the video - so cool, one day, one bean at a time - very funny too.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[PTree15]

I will have to check out that video.

 

[Graeme M]

Eating meat is wrong, and you shouldn't ever do it in the same way that you should not commit crimes like stealing or arson.

While I agree that veganism is "aspirational" (I describe it as a philosophy of moral ambition), I can't agree that eating meat is wrong. It isn't, and even the definition of veganism accepts that. What is "wrong" is treating animals as property and/or using them for our own ends when we can do otherwise. I think claiming a total moral prohibition on animal use in all possible circumstances is actually a dangerous (and ridiculous) proposition, and another reason veganism is rejected by most.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

It isn't, and even the definition of veganism accepts that.

Most definitions of veganism that I've seen simply describe what vegans do "don't consume animal products" without passing moral judgement. I don't think most definitions of veganism make a moral judgement one way or the other.

 

[4silva]

While I agree that veganism is "aspirational" (I describe it as a philosophy of moral ambition), I can't agree that eating meat is wrong. It isn't, and even the definition of veganism accepts that. What is "wrong" is treating animals as property and/or using them for our own ends when we can do otherwise. I think claiming a total moral prohibition on animal use in all possible circumstances is actually a dangerous (and ridiculous) proposition, and another reason veganism is rejected by most.

I think most people would agree that killing another person is wrong unless it's done as defense.
All animals are food but again, people would agree that killing what they consider pets is wrong, unless in defense.
If you don't need to kill an animal, it's wrong. If there is need you do what is necessary.
Huge difference between someone getting food at a food bank and someone buying bougie eggs or free range beef.

"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."

 

[Graeme M]

Most definitions of veganism that I've seen simply describe what vegans do "don't consume animal products" without passing moral judgement. I don't think most definitions of veganism make a moral judgement one way or the other.

I don't understand what you mean here. There is only one definition of veganism, not many. And the definition is founded upon moral groundings - that was the whole point of it in the first place. You can't say that veganism is "don't consume animal products" without a reason. That'd be irrational. The reason is one of moral concern - doing what's right.

I think most people would agree that killing another person is wrong unless it's done as defense.
All animals are food but again, people would agree that killing what they consider pets is wrong, unless in defense.
If you don't need to kill an animal, it's wrong. If there is need you do what is necessary.
Huge difference between someone getting food at a food bank and someone buying bougie eggs or free range beef.

Aren't we saying the same thing? I'm saying the act of eating meat is not in itself a wrong. What can be wrong is the circumstances in which it happens.