US 3 people dead, over 280 injured from explosions at the finish line of the Boston Marathon

[das_nut]

Well for starters, he hated America. If he had a choice in the matter, I doubt he would have wanted to be buried here.

If you're still crying for revenge, isn't that a reason to bury him in the US?

There are people in this world who need the caring and compassion of others. Dead or alive, he doesn't deserve it.

What about his family, who is stuck with his body and needs a place to bury it? Or do they not deserve compassion?

 

[mlp]

You asked about McVeigh. I'm not going to look up and debate every whackjob murderer's burial details.

Well, Sandy Hook is recent enough that I think most of us would remember if there had been an outcry about that killer's burial.

 

[Ansciess]

I think that every body that the government is responsible for, or that the relatives don't claim or can't find a legal burial for (which probably includes a time limit), should be cremated. Doesn't really matter what happens to the ashes. If some relative wants to claim them in a time window that's fine, if not, then just dispose. I'm not sure why this particular guy has to be buried, especially since it's so contentious. For people who actually put meaning into burials (I'm not one of them), I can see why the families wouldn't want this bomber buried next to their family members.

If you're someone who really feels strongly that you have to be buried (because of your religious beliefs or whatever), then don't set a bomb in a public place and kill innocent people. If you're someone who really feels strongly that your family members must be buried, then keep in touch with them enough to steer them off the path of setting bombs in public places and killing people. I think you might lose your preferences for a religious burial when you do something criminal like the bomber - because no one wants their loved ones buried next to you.

 

[Spang]

Well, Sandy Hook is recent enough that I think most of us would remember if there had been an outcry about that killer's burial.

The Sandy Hook shooter was a "troubled" white kid, so no outcry. The Boston bomber was a "typical" Muslim, so outcry ensues.

 

[Ansciess]

The Sandy Hook shooter was a "troubled" white kid, so no outcry. The Boston bomber was a "typical" Muslim, so outcry ensues.

Was he buried or cremated?

 

[Spang]

Was he buried or cremated?

According to this Huffington Post article, it's being kept secret. There absolutely would have been outcry over the secrecy if Lanza was a bit more Muslim-y.

 

[mlp]

Was he buried or cremated?

He was buried. It took a while before his father claimed his body, and he declined to say where he was burying him.

 

[Ansciess]

According to this Huffington Post article, it's being kept secret. There absolutely would have been outcry over the secrecy if Lanza was a bit more Muslim-y.

I'm not sure about that, really. I think they just managed to keep it quiet - maybe because there are a lot more Christian cemeteries than Muslim ones. I can't imagine that anyone who cares about burials would rather have their family members buried next to the Sandy Hook shooter than the Boston bomber. Do you think so?

 

[Spang]

I can't imagine that anyone who cares about burials would rather have their family members buried next to the Sandy Hook shooter than the Boston bomber. Do you think so?

I don't think the loudest protestors truly care about burials - they just don't like Muslims.

 

[mlp]

I think that every body that the government is responsible for, or that the relatives don't claim or can't find a legal burial for (which probably includes a time limit), should be cremated.

In most jurisdictions, the law specifies burial for unclaimed bodies.

For myself, my relatives know I want to be cremated.


The families of killers who get a lot of publicity take pains to keep burial locations secret, so that people don't come to vandalize the grave.

The cemeteries in this particular case have a concern that the cemetery as a whole may be subjected to vandalism, etc., because of anti Muslim feeling. It's a concern which is, IMO, justified.

 

[Ansciess]

I think there are two kind of separate issues with this. One, I can see a legitimate feeling from families who care about burials to not have their loved one buried next to a mass murderer. I don't care about burials - or even many of my family members - and yet I still find it distasteful. Two, generalized ire gets directed at a minority ethnic group when a member of that group does something bad. Christians or white people or whatever aren't going to generally condemn Christians or white people or whatever when one of their group misbehaves - but the minority is easier to target, because there are fewer of them, and thus they're easier to stereotype. I know this firsthand because I'm a member of an ethnic minority and whenever a member of my group get in national trouble, I cringe, because it often enough confirms some lousy stereotype.

So I agree there's anti-Muslim sentiment, and some of the protest is probably coming from bigotry. But I also think that mass bombers - whether McVeigh or the Boston bomber - may be exempting themselves from this type of burial because, once discovered, few people want to have their family members buried next to a notorious criminal. It's hard for me to really have a lot of feeling for a mass murderer taking up more of the public's energy than getting a cremation and having the ashes sent to the family (if they want them). If the family is able to keep a burial of a mass murderer secret, then they probably pulled one over on the other families in the cemetery, some of whom would certainly object. But I don't think all of the issue over the burial has to do with anti Muslim sentiment.

I probably shouldn't even have commented. I haven't read the articles and maybe I'm missing something. I made the assumption that people with family members in the cemetery wouldn't want a mass murderer there because they don't want their family members buried next to them. Maybe it's less that and more that they are just afraid the cemetery will be desecrated? That sounds more like what people are saying here...

 

[mlp]

If you're someone who really feels strongly that your family members must be buried, then keep in touch with them enough to steer them off the path of setting bombs in public places and killing people.

My nephew is a conservative Republican, Christian, meat eating hunter, raised by my sister who has been veg*n since he was little, atheist since long before that, and who has never voted for a Republican in her life. My parents, who did eat meat, abhorred hunting, and never voted for a Republican either, to the best of my knowledge. They, and I, were the people who raised him.

I agree that not all of it has to do with anti Muslim sentiment. After all, as I mentioned before, we human beings have a long history of continuing to punish criminals after their death by taking it out on their corpses. I don't think it has any effect on the corpses - they are, after all, corpses. I just think it's rather small of the living. I do think that the fact that this has become such a huge public thing does have everything to do with anti Muslim sentiment and anti immigrant sentiment - the fact that there hasn't been this kind of public controversy (as opposed to the feelings of the families of the victims) with respect to any of our other notorious killers points to that.

I've never expected the cemeteries where my loved ones are buried to be free of child molestors, rapists or killers - the statistics would indicate that we bury our loved ones not in the midst of saints, but in the midst of the entire stew of sins and virtues that make up humanity.

And, as it has turned out, one of the graves that I visit periodically is that of a murderer.

 

[das_nut]

I think there are two kind of separate issues with this. One, I can see a legitimate feeling from families who care about burials to not have their loved one buried next to a mass murderer.

If you're buried in a cemetery of any decent size, odds are favorable that you're going to be buried in the same cemetery as rapists and pedophiles.

 

[Second Summer]

If you're buried in a cemetery of any decent size, odds are favorable that you're going to be buried in the same cemetery as rapists and pedophiles.

Some in my family have a little stone wall around their part of the cemetery, keeping them separate from the commoners.

 

[mlp]

I probably shouldn't even have commented. I haven't read the articles and maybe I'm missing something. I made the assumption that people with family members in the cemetery wouldn't want a mass murderer there because they don't want their family members buried next to them. Maybe it's less that and more that they are just afraid the cemetery will be desecrated? That sounds more like what people are saying here...

The cemetery which accepted his body for burial is a small cemetery in a rural area. About fifty people are buried there so far. The man who donated the land for the cemetery lives next to it. He was contacted before the burial took place. (He's an African American man who converted to Islam about forty years ago.) He said that offering a grave site was just a decent thing to do. A friend of his is the father of the first person buried in the cemetery. He says that the man's sins were grave, but that, now that he is dead, those sins are between him and Allah.

The people who are upset about it are: other people who live near the cemetery - they're worried that "his people" will come to visit the grave and make trouble; local officials, who are concerned that they will have to expend resources to protect the cemetery; the iman of a mosque in the nearest metropolitan area, who is afraid that this will bring trouble to the local Muslims; people in the area who are upset that he's buried there, "We're so far from Boston and had nothing to do with what happened - why did they have to bring him all the way down here" - they're sensitive because John Wilkes Booth is buried in the area, which they feel has brought them into enough disrepute.

 

[das_nut]

^- A post that informative deserves more likes.

 

[ledboots]

In addition, the woman who coordinated the burial is a Christian. The chief of police and other law enforcement in the area wish they had been notified.

"Caroline County Sheriff Tony Lippa was concerned, too, that the grave site could become a target for vandals and a shrine for those who sympathize with Tsarnaev, forcing his lean department — rural Caroline County's primary law-enforcement agency — to use money and officers it doesn't have guarding the secluded, private cemetery.

"I know of no Virginia law enforcement agency that was notified. No one in county or state government was aware of this," Lippa said.

Desecrating the grave, he said, is a felony. Merely trespassing onto the private property of the cemetery is a misdemeanour, he said." http://www.brandonsun.com/world/bre...ng-some-nearby-residents-207004661.html?thx=y

 

[beancounter]

Well it's inevitable that people will pull the race/religion/ethnicity card out. Using it to shame people/stop discussion is just cheap.

When you don't have a cohesive argument, just pull out the card...

There are differences between Sandy Hook and the Boston Bomber that have nothing to do with the fact that he was a Muslim.

The Sandy Hook killer was probably mentally disturbed. The dead Boston Bomber wasn't. The SH guy committed his act on a whim. BB attack was premeditated. The SH guy acted alone. BB was part of a large terrorist organization. BB planned on committing multiple attacks, SH, as far as what is known, didn't have plans to attack more than once.

The issue isn't that he's Muslim. It's that he's part of a large, systematic, well funded terrorist organization. And his acts will inspire others that think like him.

Would you defend him so vigorously if he wasn't part of a minority group?

Ask yourself why you care more about what happens to a corpse than the feelings/needs of the survivors.

Just curious. What do you think should become of the brother? Should he be set free because he had a bad childhood? Should he be cared for by the state because the bad, bad police shot him instead of asking him nicely to surrender? Should we ask his forgiveness for not letting him and his brother carry out their plans to bomb Time Square and the Hatch-Shell on July 4th because that hurt his feelings?

The reality is there is a lot of misplaced hate and ignorance toward Muslims, but that doesn't justify giving the Boston bombers and special considerations...over the feelings/needs of the victims, their families and the community.

People like the BB, SH, Timothy McViegh and the Colorado theater shooter are monsters, and should be treated as such.

Oh, and if you still think I'm motivated by hatred of [insert minority group here], ask me how I feel about white supremacist.

 

[beancounter]

If you're still crying for revenge,

Well I'm not really into revenge, but the punishment should fit the crime.

For example, what do you think should be done if person A re-post something person B wrote on this forum onto another forum so person A and his friends could get kicks and giggles from what person B wrote? Especially when one of person A's friends is a well known systematic troll...

But I am suspicious by nature. Like when someone who normally holds the minority opinion, from a VV perspective, does a 180 degree turn out of the blue and starts agreeing with the majority on a number of issues. I wonder why?

http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671027034

http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20130111201059-60894986-trust-must-be-earned

"Actions speak louder than words, and trust must be earned through acts of integrity. Those sectors, organizations and individuals who have broken our trust will have real work ahead of them to regain our trust. "

 

[Spang]

Would you defend him so vigorously if he wasn't part of a minority group?

There likely wouldn't be a need. Also, I'm only defending the corpse. In death, we are all the same.

The reality is there is a lot of misplaced hate and ignorance toward Muslims, but that doesn't justify giving the Boston bombers and special considerations...over the feelings/needs of the victims, their families and the community.

Burying a dead body is not a special consideration.