Wrong to keep leather purchased before being vegan?

[Sproutskies]

I have been wearing leather belts that I've had for years. Wallets, still have a pair of shoes... often I meet those devoted to this lifestyle that tell me wearing leather is just as bad as the act of murder itself. It makes sense that this would evoke a strong reaction and could be a reminder of all the horrible things. My reasons for keeping these items are that they still have functionality and that holding onto something isn't going to contribute further to the problem.

Why is this wrong to do? What would be the justification to keeping or throwing away already purchased leather? Is there something else missing to the picture?

 

[Lou]

. My reasons for keeping these items are that they still have functionality and that holding onto something isn't going to contribute further to the problem.

I agree.

 

[Veganite]

I also still have leather items. They will likely out live me. There's absolutely nothing that's going to change the fact that these animals have already lost their lives. The fact of the matter is that throwing the leather away makes it even worse in my opinion. Now the animal gave it's life just so you can dispose of it in the garbage? How is that helping the cause? I don't think it takes a genius to see that it serves no purpose in doing so.

I would be curious to know what their reasons are for throwing the leather away. I'd just like to know if they actually have an argument, and if so, what it is? I can't think of one reason, myself. Personally, I see no logic in it. Nonetheless, if people have legit reasons for this, I would be curious to hear them.

*

 

[poivron]

I have been wearing leather belts that I've had for years. Wallets, still have a pair of shoes... often I meet those devoted to this lifestyle that tell me wearing leather is just as bad as the act of murder itself. It makes sense that this would evoke a strong reaction and could be a reminder of all the horrible things. My reasons for keeping these items are that they still have functionality and that holding onto something isn't going to contribute further to the problem.

Why is this wrong to do? What would be the justification to keeping or throwing away already purchased leather? Is there something else missing to the picture?

Using your old leather items until they fall apart is the best thing you can do for the environment and therefore also for the animals. When you throw away your old leather, wool, etc., you're adding to the landfills and introducing new plastic and carbon into the environment. And donating is not the solution, since most donated items go directly to the landfill. There just aren't enough desperate poor people to use up the junk that consumerist people in industrialized countries buy and donate after a short time.

Some vegans care more about their own imagined superiority than they do about animals. There is nothing you can do to please such people. They will always be a better vegan (in their own minds) than you are.

 

[Brian W]

I wear leather shoes - but they come from charity shops and I can't afford new shoes. I suppose there is an argument for giving leather items away to people who would otherwise buy them new though.

 

[Jon]

I agree.

Why should you give them up. The deed is already done so to speak. It is up to you to decide but personally I see no problem with it. No one will gain or lose anything over keeping and making use of them. Don't get involved in problems with retrograde purchases when you were of different mind. You can't change the past but you can help the future.

 

[beancounter]

I agree with the general consensus here.

However, there is an aspect to consider.

When you're around people you know, or who you're trying to encourage to go vegan, I would wear non leather cloths, otherwise you would look like a hippocrate, and teaching by example could be a lot harder.

 

[Danielle]

Wanting to get rid of the leather is understandable imo. You enter a new mindset of hey I don't want to use animal products anymore, and having those old leather items around can feel conflicting.

 

[Jon]

Beancounters advice is sound. It would not want to look like a hypocrite. When I was very young there were no alternatives so it was a problem. Man made sandals aren't suitable for all weathers! It was the same with some clothes, man made fibres were not available so some of my winter clothes were of wool. It was a compromise at 1st in those days and we had to admit it. This often resulted in the situation Beancounter described. Things were very different in the 40's.

 

[poivron]

When you're around people you know, or who you're trying to encourage to go vegan, I would wear non leather cloths, otherwise you would look like a hippocrate, and teaching by example could be a lot harder.

I don't think that wearing non-vegan items purchased before one went vegan is hypocritical. Some non-vegans might point to them and accuse the vegan of hypocrisy, but such people are always looking for excuses to prove to themselves that veganism is impractical, unreasonable, and extreme. They want to clutch at straws to reassure themselves that eating dead animals is reasonable. By trying to please such people, vegans end up making veganism look difficult. If someone criticised me for using an old non-vegan item, I would explain to them that using the item keeps it out of the landfill, that being environmentally friendly is being kind to animals as well, and that being vegan is not about personal purity but about refusing to support cruelty with one's hard-earned money.

If someone really can't stand to use their old leather items, then by all means they should get rid of them. But criticising other vegans for not doing the same thing does not help animals. I really think that vegans need to get away from all this infighting. Our goal should be to make the world vegan, not to keep veganism small so we can feel superior. If no one ate animal flesh, leather would become very expensive. The last time I was in a furniture store, I was literally surrounded by leather sofas and chairs. That's not a consequence of how much people love leather furniture but of how much animal flesh they eat. Our focus, I believe, should be on convincing non-vegans to stop eating animals. Once the world stops seeing animals as food, the rest will follow naturally.

 

[beancounter]

I don't think that wearing non-vegan items purchased before one went vegan is hypocritical. Some non-vegans might point to them and accuse the vegan of hypocrisy, but such people are always looking for excuses to prove to themselves that veganism is impractical, unreasonable, and extreme. They want to clutch at straws to reassure themselves that eating dead animals is reasonable. By trying to please such people, vegans end up making veganism look difficult. If someone criticised me for using an old non-vegan item, I would explain to them that using the item keeps it out of the landfill, that being environmentally friendly is being kind to animals as well, and that being vegan is not about personal purity but about refusing to support cruelty with one's hard-earned money.

If someone really can't stand to use their old leather items, then by all means they should get rid of them. But criticizing other vegans for not doing the same thing does not help animals. I really think that vegans need to get away from all this infighting. Our goal should be to make the world vegan, not to keep veganism small so we can feel superior. If no one ate animal flesh, leather would become very expensive. The last time I was in a furniture store, I was literally surrounded by leather sofas and chairs. That's not a consequence of how much people love leather furniture but of how much animal flesh they eat. Our focus, I believe, should be on convincing non-vegans to stop eating animals. Once the world stops seeing animals as food, the rest will follow naturally.

It's not about infighting. It's about projecting an image to the non-vegan public...in an effort to increase our numbers, not to perpetuate an exclusive club.

I did not explicitly or implicitly suggest that anyone should be criticized.

And it would help if people didn't jump at any opportunity (real or imagined) to play the victim.

 

[silva]

It's not about infighting. It's about projecting an image to the non-vegan public...in an effort to increase our numbers, not to perpetuate an exclusive club.

I did not explicitly or implicitly suggest that anyone should be criticized.

And it would help if people didn't jump at any opportunity (real or imagined) to play the victim.

I get your point, but I'd rather explain myself instead of risking being talked about behind my back. If you DO have leather and try to hide it while advocating you're opening up to being "outed" if it's discovered. (you know, the 'fake vegan' )

We can't change the past, only move forward. The focus of slavery in general pretty much created most of what we know today.THere is little that animals haven't been used to promote what is now available, whether seen or not seen. Most of the personal products we use, almost all medical treatments, have been developed from awful experimentation. Leather is a tangible object, the others are not, but they're all from the same source.

 

[Mufflon]

I can understand the need to get rid of clothes/items made of leather and wool - if you choose to do so don't throw it away but donate it.

However, I have some older leather/wool items as well and will continue to use them until they fall apart. There is no use in giving these items away.

 

[poivron]

It's not about infighting. It's about projecting an image to the non-vegan public...in an effort to increase our numbers, not to perpetuate an exclusive club.

I did not explicitly or implicitly suggest that anyone should be criticized.

And it would help if people didn't jump at any opportunity (real or imagined) to play the victim.

My comments about infighting were not in reference to you but in reference to the original post, in which Sproutskies described being criticized by other vegans for choosing to use old leather items. No one accused anyone in this thread of infighting. We can discuss and disagree with each other; that is healthy. What is not productive is attacking other vegans for their choices. Surely you would agree that there is a lot of that out there, at least online.

I would say that the image being projected when a vegan tries to be perfect according to an arbitrary definition (as opposed to following a general guiding principle of doing the least harm) is that veganism is about personal purity. When you explain why you are choosing to use your old leather items, the image you are projecting is that veganism is about refusing to support cruelty.

I don't see who is playing the victim here. Not wanting to be criticized is completely normal. People do better when they are acknowledged for their efforts and encouraged. When they are criticized and shamed, they reject the input as being completely wrong (because accepting the input would mean they are wrong, bad, and stupid, and no human wants to believe that.) So when a vegan criticizes another person, vegan or nonvegan, they are ensuring that their comments will be wholly rejected. That does not help the vegan cause; it encourages people who are vegan and are doing their best to stop calling themselves vegan, and it convinces non-vegans that vegans are unreasonable.

I also think it's relevant to this discussion to note that most of the plants we eat as vegans are grown with animal fertilizer, which I guess is cheaper than plant fertilizer because of the size of the factory farm industry. Furthermore, we are all still supporting the factory farm industry with our taxes because of the heavy subsidies the industries that exploit animals receive. In other words, no matter how perfect we are as vegans, we are still supporting animal suffering with our money. If we want to stop animal cruelty, we need to grow the vegan movement by leaps and bounds, not make sure that the small percentage of people out there who call themselves vegan are perfect vegans who make the same choices we do. In order to be better vegans ourselves, we need those imperfect vegans who may not be doing everything right yet but who are no longer propping up the factory farm industry.

Nothing above is meant to criticize anyone on this forum, which is full of vegans who are respectful of others. If it were a place of infighting, I would not post here, and I suspect many others wouldn't, either. I really appreciate this place and think it provides excellent support and guidance for new vegans.

 

[Deleted member 14798]

I think it's up to the individual. Leather is a byproduct and what comes of the animals after they're killed for meet, right? It's always then about them already being dead. Some vegans/vegetarians even buy leather and consume honey. I personally don't, knowingly, wear & consume animals but donate rather than throw away. I know what it is and aren't comfortable looking at it but I started very young so I wouldn't still have anything. Some of the imitation looks real anymore that there's no obvious statement anyway.

 

[Jon]

I have been wearing leather belts that I've had for years. Wallets, still have a pair of shoes... often I meet those devoted to this lifestyle that tell me wearing leather is just as bad as the act of murder itself. It makes sense that this would evoke a strong reaction and could be a reminder of all the horrible things. My reasons for keeping these items are that they still have functionality and that holding onto something isn't going to contribute further to the problem.

Why is this wrong to do? What would be the justification to keeping or throwing away already purchased leather? Is there something else missing to the picture?

There is nothing wrong in keeping items you bought before becoming Vegan. You have "seen the light" for whatever reason and that is what makes the difference. We cannot change the past, but you can help to change the future. There is more than one reason for becoming Vegan and that is what we need to understand and accept. How far you want to take your veganism is your business and no one else's. You should not feel obliged to rid yourself of old items that were bought before turning Vegan. The damage they caused cannot be undone by throwing them away. If you feel comfortable wearing them, you should continue to do so.

 

[digitarian]

I watched how Earthling Ed donated the leather he had. It was a shame, as he thinks he's so great in doing that - but ends up a hypocrite with a superiority complex by telling everyone to be vegan while simultaneously dumping all his animal products onto others for them to wear.

I'm fine with vegans wearing leather, because it's a symbol of where you come from.

Also the resources to get an alternative may unintentionally lead to killing of some animal - or taking the resources of them. I mean most is pleather - which comes from oil - from the remains of dead animals and plants - so you wouldn't get away from animals anyway. It's best to avoid new killing by accepting the damage taht's already been done. Seems strange, but true veganism is really counterintuitive where something that isn't vegan really is the more vegan choice than something that is vegan.

 

[Jon]

I watched how Earthling Ed donated the leather he had. It was a shame, as he thinks he's so great in doing that - but ends up a hypocrite with a superiority complex by telling everyone to be vegan while simultaneously dumping all his animal products onto others for them to wear.

I'm fine with vegans wearing leather, because it's a symbol of where you come from.

Also the resources to get an alternative may unintentionally lead to killing of some animal - or taking the resources of them. I mean most is pleather - which comes from oil - from the remains of dead animals and plants - so you wouldn't get away from animals anyway. It's best to avoid new killing by accepting the damage taht's already been done. Seems strange, but true veganism is really counterintuitive where something that isn't vegan really is the more vegan choice than something that is vegan.

digitarian. I agree with that entirely. If you throw leather away that you bought before "seeing the light", when it's still useable, the animal died in vain. It is difficult these days to avoid buying almost anything that has not impacted on animals somewhere along the line. We are probably all guilty of that without knowing about it. It is impossible to research the history of everything we buy, we can only do our best. No one should feel guilty in this situation. jc

 

[Jon]

I agree with that entirely. If you throw leather away that you bought before "seeing the light", when it's still useable, the animal died in vain. It is difficult these days to avoid buying almost anything that has not impacted on animals somewhere along the line. We are probably all guilty of that without knowing about it. It is impossible to research the history of everything we buy, we can only do our best. No one should feel guilty in this situation. jc

 

[vegan89]

Leather is a byproduct and what comes of the animals after they're killed for meet, right?

I suspect it's not really that simple. If you buy leather products, it contributes to the financial success of factory farms & slaughterhouses. And that probably brings more financial investment in these animal-tormenting companies on the stock market as people try to profit off of that industry. And that investment provides animal-tormenting corporations with more financial resources to develop newer, cheaper, more efficient ways to torment animals on an even greater scale.

I also question the "it's just a by-product" argument because I suspect the cow is ultimately grown for all of the cow body parts the business expects to be able to sell. That would seem to include not just the meat but also the skin ("leather") of the cow as well.

Even if the leather really is just a by-product, increased demand for leather would probably result in lower meat prices because the cost of producing the cow would be shared between leather buyers and meat buyers. And lower meat prices mean more consumers buying meat, which means companies will produce more meat.... which means more factory farms & slaughterhouses.

There's one other way buying leather contributes to the problem: it diverts economic demand away from vegan alternatives. (Vegan "leather" products).