What is truly okay to eat?

[WhatsVegan]

Hello, I have been transitioning to vegan from being vegetarian for about a year. I am questioning what is truly okay to eat since plants are indeed alive and they do indeed feel. Some plants clone themselves, does that make them okay to consume then? Is there another way?
It is not to cause pain.

 

[allindogecoin]

While both animals and plants are living organisms, the key ethical difference lies in sentient experience. Animals, including humans and monkeys, can consciously feel pain. Plants, lacking a nervous system and consciousness, do not experience pain in the way sentient beings do. If we claim that killing a plant justifies killing a sentient animal then this logic also justifies human torture.

 

[Lou]

I am questioning what is truly okay to eat since plants are indeed alive and they do indeed feel.

Yes plants are alive. And they do "experience" the environment. and in many ways, respond to it. But that does make them sentient.
BTW, in case you didn't hear, the authors of the Secret Lives of Plants falsified their data, their experiments have not been replicated, and the authors themselves have admitted that they made that stuff up.
Sentience can be a bit of a bit confusing but I still think Bentham stated it succinctly 300 years ago when he said, ""The question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?"

But it can get complicated, confusing, and controversial.
There is the argument based on admitting imperfect knowledge and therefore erring on the side of caution. We can't know what an oyster is experiencing so we don't eat them. And I suppose you can extend that argument to an asparagus plant. So an apple that has fallen to the ground is ok. and so are grains that are annuals and are already dead.

However we all cause harm to living things just by living, so maybe it's not Do No Harm. but just do the least amount. And I suppose it's up to you to decide what is the least amount.

Some plants clone themselves, does that make them okay to consume then? Is there another way?
It is not to cause pain.

I don't know what clones have to do with this.

 

[1956]

Yes plants are alive. And they do "experience" the environment. and in many ways, respond to it. But that does make them sentient.
BTW, in case you didn't hear, the authors of the Secret Lives of Plants falsified their data, their experiments have not been replicated, and the authors themselves have admitted that they made that stuff up.
Sentience can be a bit of a bit confusing but I still think Bentham stated it succinctly 300 years ago when he said, ""The question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?"

But it can get complicated, confusing, and controversial.
There is the argument based on admitting imperfect knowledge and therefore erring on the side of caution. We can't know what an oyster is experiencing so we don't eat them. And I suppose you can extend that argument to an asparagus plant. So an apple that has fallen to the ground is ok. and so are grains that are annuals and are already dead.

However we all cause harm to living things just by living, so maybe it's not Do No Harm. but just do the least amount. And I suppose it's up to you to decide what is the least amount.



I don't know what clones have to do with this.

Asparagus plants are perennial…
When the stalk is cut off the plant does not die…
It is also necessary not to start harvesting spears for about the first 3 years to allow the plant time create a strong and healthy root system…
The plants are also quite long lived…
This is just a “fun fact” that I thought I’d share since you mentioned them specifically…
Even though plants are Not sentient, I do try to give Thanks to them for feeding me.

 

[Graeme M]

As others have said. It's not being "alive" that matters, but sentience and the capacity to have explicit interests (ie conscious desires and preferences). Plants are not sentient and they do not have explicit interests, so we can eat them with zero concern.

 

[Andy_T]

There are, of course, fruitarians, who do not eat plants where eating the plant would kill it, but only the fruits that the plants “give” themselves. I commend you on your concern, I personally am fine with eating all kinds of plant-based food, as plants - according to all conventional logic - do not feel pain.

 

[Lou]

Given that plants do not have pain receptors, nerves, or a brain, they do not feel pain as we members of the animal kingdom understand it.​

Some plants have obvious sensory abilities, such as the Venus flytrap and its incredible traps that can close in about half a second.​

​

... other plants are able to perceive and respond to mechanical stimuli at a cellular level. Arabidopsis (a mustard plant commonly used in scientific studies) sends out electrical signals from leaf to leaf when it is being eaten by caterpillars or aphids, signals to ramp up its chemical defenses against herbivory. While this remarkable response is initiated by physical damage, the electrical warning signal is not equivalent to a pain signal, and we should not anthropomorphize an injured plant as a plant in pain. Plants have exceptional abilities to respond to sunlight, gravity, wind, and even tiny insect bites, but (thankfully) their evolutionary successes and failures have not been shaped by suffering, just simple life and death.​

https://www.britannica.com/story/do-plants-feel-pain

 

[Veganite]

Hello, I have been transitioning to vegan from being vegetarian for about a year. I am questioning what is truly okay to eat since plants are indeed alive and they do indeed feel. Some plants clone themselves, does that make them okay to consume then? Is there another way?
It is not to cause pain.

One might have to resort to eating rocks if we keep questioning the feelings of plants. We're all pretty sure rocks don't feel pain....but I could be wrong. However, they lack the nutrition we human beings require. So what would one eat if we are ethically unable to eat plants as well as animals? Maybe you see my point?

To be honest, I find this whole concept of plants suffering, remotely, anything like a sentient animal, and dying in masses, in factory farmed greenhouses somewhat ridiculous. Comparing animals to plants is like comparing apples to oranges, in my humble opinion. Just my 2 cents.


*

 

[Lou]

To be honest, I find this whole concept of plants suffering, remotely, anything like a sentient animal, and dying in masses, in factory farmed greenhouses somewhat ridiculous. Comparing animals to plants is like comparing apples to oranges, in my humble opinion. Just my 2 cents.

I wouldn't call it ridiculous. the concept of sentience is fluid. and has changed several times over the centuries. So who knows what will happen next century.

It's been only 20 years since it's been proven that fish feel pain. and even today there is much debate on the "quality of their conscious experience. "

Even today there is still a lot of lively debate on the sentience of inverterbrates. There doesn't seem to much controversy about lobsters and octopi but oysters and muscles are still debated.

and not there is research about forests being "superorganisms".
"the entire ecosystem—trees, fungi, microbes, and animals—as a single, interconnected entity, not just a collection of individuals, linked by underground mycorrhizal networks that share resources (water, nutrients, signals) and operate with collective intelligence, similar to a body, where "mother trees" nurture young, and even dead stumps can be kept alive by neighbors, suggesting a highly cooperative system far beyond mere competition."

--Exploring the underground connections between trees | IIASA

 

[Veganite]

I wouldn't call it ridiculous.

What is ridiculous is the comparison to sentient beings. I mean, I would again ask, what the heck would one eat if plants are out? That is what I find completely ridiculous. See my point?

*

 

[Ahimsa24/7]

Asparagus plants are perennial…
When the stalk is cut off the plant does not die…
It is also necessary not to start harvesting spears for about the first 3 years to allow the plant time create a strong and healthy root system…
The plants are also quite long lived…
This is just a “fun fact” that I thought I’d share since you mentioned them specifically…
Even though plants are Not sentient, I do try to give Thanks to them for feeding me.

You are free to believe as you believe, but "thanking" something that you kill and eat is perverse.

 

[Lou]

What is ridiculous is the comparison to sentient beings. I mean, I would again ask, what the heck would one eat if plants are out? That is what I find completely ridiculous. See my point?

*

Of course. The definition includes the word "practical".

You are free to believe as you believe, but "thanking" something that you kill and eat is perverse.

"North American Indigenous cultures deeply honored animals after a kill, offering thanks, prayers, or ceremonies to the animal's spirit for its sacrifice, recognizing the interconnectedness of life and ensuring respect for the natural world, often involving rituals to thank the spirit, return parts of the body, and ensure the animal's journey to the spirit world, though specific practices varied widely by tribe"

.

 

[Ahimsa24/7]

Of course. The definition includes the word "practical".


"North American Indigenous cultures deeply honored animals after a kill, offering thanks, prayers, or ceremonies to the animal's spirit for its sacrifice, recognizing the interconnectedness of life and ensuring respect for the natural world, often involving rituals to thank the spirit, return parts of the body, and ensure the animal's journey to the spirit world, though specific practices varied widely by tribe"

.

Yes, I'm totally familiar with the Native American tradition. I think it's perverse and perpetuated/perpetuates the exploitation of animals. Thanking your victim doesn't forgive your crime. And I personally wouldn't be interested in my murderer's take on THEIR "spiritual world". It's like hunters talking about the bond they share with an animal when they hunt it. It's all in their own heads. You have a gun, the animal doesn't. The animal's life is at stake, yours very likely isn't in the slightest danger. I wouldn't be shocked if some bullfighters "thank" the bull. You want to respect a life form? Leave it alone.

I went on a first date once with a very attractive yoga instructor who I thought I'd have a great deal in common with. She pulled the "but I thank the animal before I eat it" bit midway through dinner. She was shocked that I wasn't buying it. That was also our last date.

 

[1956]

You are free to believe as you believe, but "thanking" something that you kill and eat is perverse.

Wow!
Perverse seems like a rather Strong word to use at least in My case!
As I believe I mentioned I am a Vegan and I give Thanks for the Plants that I am eating! Perhaps you didn’t read my post fully or understand what I said…
I agree Completely that giving Thanks to an Animal for giving up Their life to feed someone Definitely does Not make up for the life of the animal…
This habit of mine came from time spent in a Spiritual Community which is when I first became Vegetarian and then a few years later Vegan…
For myself it is a matter of not taking for Granted the food that sustains me…
The phrase Eating to Live - rather than - Living to Eat is also something that I try to practice…

 

[1956]

Of course. The definition includes the word "practical".


"North American Indigenous cultures deeply honored animals after a kill, offering thanks, prayers, or ceremonies to the animal's spirit for its sacrifice, recognizing the interconnectedness of life and ensuring respect for the natural world, often involving rituals to thank the spirit, return parts of the body, and ensure the animal's journey to the spirit world, though specific practices varied widely by tribe"

Yes, I'm totally familiar with the Native American tradition. I think it's perverse and perpetuated/perpetuates the exploitation of animals. Thanking your victim doesn't forgive your crime. And I personally wouldn't be interested in my murderer's take on THEIR "spiritual world". It's like hunters talking about the bond they share with an animal when they hunt it. It's all in their own heads. You have a gun, the animal doesn't. The animal's life is at stake, yours very likely isn't in the slightest danger. I wouldn't be shocked if some bullfighters "thank" the bull. You want to respect a life form? Leave it alone.

I went on a first date once with a very attractive yoga instructor who I thought I'd have a great deal in common with. She pulled the "but I thank the animal before I eat it" bit midway through dinner. She was shocked that I wasn't buying it. That was also our last date.

Yes, in today’s world it is Perverse to kill and eat animals…
However, what @Lou posted was referring to the past I believe… At that point in history those cultures were far more advanced than the Majority of today’s population with the exception of Vegans of course!
They were also far more Advanced than the so called Civilised societies of that era as well in my view.

 

[Ahimsa24/7]

Believe what you wish.

Through what means do you think the plants receive your "thanks"? How do they interpret them? You did say you give thanks "to them", specifically.

In your very first post you said that plants "do indeed feel". You started this entire thread because you have some degree of ethical quandary about eating them. But "thanking" them apparently eases your discomfort in some fashion, just like it did/does for some people who kill animals to eat them.

Someone "thanking" me before they kill me to eat me would likely make me feel worse, not better. Don't thank me for what you're taking from me against my will.

 

[g0rph]

Hello, I have been transitioning to vegan from being vegetarian for about a year. I am questioning what is truly okay to eat since plants are indeed alive and they do indeed feel. Some plants clone themselves, does that make them okay to consume then? Is there another way?
It is not to cause pain.

Plants do not "feel".
They have no nervous system.
They do "react" to stimuli, but that's a chemical reaction.

 

[Emma JC]

Believe what you wish.

Through what means do you think the plants receive your "thanks"? How do they interpret them? You did say you give thanks "to them", specifically.

In your very first post you said that plants "do indeed feel". You started this entire thread because you have some degree of ethical quandary about eating them. But "thanking" them apparently eases your discomfort in some fashion, just like it did/does for some people who kill animals to eat them.

Someone "thanking" me before they kill me to eat me would likely make me feel worse, not better. Don't thank me for what you're taking from me against my will.

I totally disagree with you whether it is referring to plants or to animals.

Being thankful is something that affects you, most of all. Living in an attitude of gratitude is not something new it is something that makes me a better person to be around. I often say many 'gratitudes' out loud eg in the shower or as I climb into bed - I am grateful to have running hot water, a warm place to live, amazing food to eat, a spouse that I love and who loves me, I am grateful for my family and friends, for my country, the list is really endless...

I grew up in an evangelical family so saying grace before a meal was standard practise, I no longer do that specifically however I try to live in that grateful attitude at all times.

Of course, the plant or the animal will have no appreciation for one's thankfulness, that doesn't takeaway from its value.

IMO

Also thankful for this forum and the variety of people here.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[1956]

Believe what you wish.

Through what means do you think the plants receive your "thanks"? How do they interpret them? You did say you give thanks "to them", specifically.

In your very first post you said that plants "do indeed feel". You started this entire thread because you have some degree of ethical quandary about eating them. But "thanking" them apparently eases your discomfort in some fashion, just like it did/does for some people who kill animals to eat them.

Someone "thanking" me before they kill me to eat me would likely make me feel worse, not better. Don't thank me for what you're taking from me against my will.

I did Not start this Thread!
Someone else named @WhatsVegan did!
Perhaps because our circles are the same colour is why you have made this mistake!
In any case in my view You are coming across as Very aggressive!
It might be Worthwhile to read what is written and by whom before responding!
I only joined in on this thread because I am a Gardener - @Lou made a comment about Asparagus and I thought that I would just chime in with the fun fact I offered….
As I have stated Several times I am a Vegan! I have Not eaten flesh in over 30 years!

 

[Ahimsa24/7]

I did Not start this Thread!
Someone else named @WhatsVegan did!
Perhaps because our circles are the same colour is why you have made this mistake!
In any case in my view You are coming across as Very aggressive!
It might be Worthwhile to read what is written and by whom before responding!
I only joined in on this thread because I am a Gardener - @Lou made a comment about Asparagus and I thought that I would just chime in with the fun fact I offered….
As I have stated Several times I am a Vegan! I have Not eaten flesh in over 30 years!

My apologies for confusing you and the original poster - yes, it was the same colored circle that threw me off. I thought both posts were from the same individual. That's totally on me - I'm sorry.