Water Fast

[chickenmammalove]

A few days ago, I tried a water fast. I've done shorter ones before (24 hrs) but this time I went 60 hours. I was originally planning on 72 hrs, but on day 2 of not eating anything, I felt pretty weak and wanted to get back to my normal energy. The first day of reintroducing food, I stuck to simple fruit and veg (watermelon, then fruit salad, then steamed broccoli, then green salad with peanut dressing). That day I probably only ate about 500 calories. My goal was to ease my digestive system back into normal functioning, rather than make up for lost calories. Next day, I went back to normal eating, including grains and beans, and took in closer to 2000 (estimate) calories.

Some interesting things I noticed after re-introducing foods...
-After I eat now, I feel like my heart rate rises. It's not as dramatic as it felt on day one, but still present. This has never happened before, even after previous fasts (I've done longer fasts before, but it's been years).
-My normal body temperature is hotter. I'm normally the type to always be cold, even in warm weather. I'm happy in 85*F weather and rarely break a sweat. Today (day 2 of re-introduction) I've actually felt hot. Eating cold food didn't bother me in the least and I was fully sweating after cycling outside.
-My energy is through the roof! While I had very little energy and felt very weak throughout the fast and day 1 of re-feeding, after introducing significant calories I have SO MUCH ENERGY. I cycled as fast as I could just for the pleasure of it. I want to skip and jump and run. Even sitting still, I find myself moving my feet or dancing in place. My eyes feel wide and bright. I feel like a 7-yr-old. My mood is super good, as well. I feel so happy and vibrant.

I did this fast because of the wonderful healing benefits, but expected my metabolism to slow slightly by the end. I'm wondering though, if it's actually sped up as a result of the fast - is that even possible? I did lose a lot of weight (mostly water, I'm sure) - 8 lbs - during the fast, but expect to gain some back over the next few days.

For others who have done a 24-120 hr water fast, what were your experiences like? I would love to hear how yours compare. Any insights into metabolism shifts while fasting?

 

[mavrick45]

“The longer you fast, the more risks you take,” Dr. Jason Fung, a kidney specialist who actually advocates fasting in select cases, says. “One is refeeding syndrome, seen in people who are slender already.” Refeeding syndrome is described by the National Institutes of Health as a shift in fluids and electrolytes once eating again commences. This shift is caused by severe metabolic and hormonal disruption caused by extreme fasting, and can be fatal.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18667013/


Dietitian and nutritionist Olivia Bates confirmed this diet is not one bit healthy and is in fact, very dangerous.
“The main issue is that when you starve your body, your body enters starvation-mode and fears that you are going to do it again.”

“So when you do start eating again it will hold on to everything. It will store the energy and the fat thinking that when you’re going to fast again it will have stores to eat up.

“So basically it slows your metabolism and ultimately you’ll end up putting on weight and retaining the weight when you do end up eating again.”

If you know where to look, you can find a lot information on the side effects and complications of water fasting in the archives of medical science.

A breakdown in electrolyte homoeostasis is one of the first medically recorded problems of water fasting .

Then there’s cardiac arrhythmias, urate nephrolithiasis, and gout .

Furthermore, we have severe orthostatic hypotension, severe normocytic, normochromic anemia, and gouty arthritis .

https://www.bmj.com/content/3/5720/432

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274154/

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/1161598


PLEASE DONT TRUST BLOGS, TRUST THE MEDICAL JOURNALS!!!!!! I CAN NOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH

 

[chickenmammalove]

I didn't get my info from a blog, thank you very much. I listened to several lectures by Dr. Michael Klaper about fasting. He has supervised hundreds of medical fasts over the years, working at True North Health Center. Through fasting, people (with medical supervision) have been able to heal their bodies dramatically of type II diabetes, cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, and many other debilitating conditions. At the center, docors will supervise fasts for up to 40 days. Dr. Klaper stated that an unsupervised fast is fine and healthy for up to five days, provided the individual is healthy (I am), an adult (I am), on no medication (I take nothing), and not underweight (I'm in the normal range). I fasted for 2.5 days. That's not a very long time. I took it easy and didn't do any strenuous activity. I listened to my body and stopped when it felt right.

True North has plenty of documentation for the amazing work they do there. There's a lot of misinformation about fasting out there, and how it affects metabolism and health. I'm not an expert, but neither are you. I listened to someone who is an expert on the subject. There are plenty of doctors and medical professionals who recommend fasting. Incidentally, I didn't fast for weight loss. Fasting isn't a diet (one has to eat something to be on a diet).

I shared my experience here because I thought it would be interesting to compare with other peoples'. I didn't come here for medical advice, nor did I share in order to give medical advice, or even to recommend that others try it (one has to figure out if it's right for oneself). I personally enjoyed the experience and would do it again. Some things surprised me. It's now day 3 after re-introducing food and I feel back to normal. I would do it again.

 

[Forest Nymph]

I agree with Mavrick. Unless you are fasting safely and partially for religion, things like avoiding wine and oil and processed foods for a few days a week or for a six week holiday, I don't think fasting is safe. One ten year vegan left veganism to be pescatarian because he had been doing intermittent fasting for six months to a year. He was starving himself. Duh. It wasn't veganism, it was fasting that hurt him.

Also raising your heart rate isn't a good thing?

I see this garbage so much on YouTube. I try to stick to the activists and cooking shows, but inevitably the starvation became my reality TV. It has nothing to do with veganism. It's called orthorexia and it's an eating disorder.

Don't water fast for more than 24 hours.

 

[Emma JC]

They do good work at True North and yet I would imagine that they might be the first to suggest that you don't do it without medical supervision.

They have a good informative page on their website and along with what I have reprinted below it also suggests who would benefit most from a water fast and as I don't fall into any of the six categories I would not consider it for myself. If circumstances changed, for any reason, then I would consider as an option.

Emma JC

https://www.healthpromoting.com/water-fasting

Fasting is defined as the complete abstinence from all substances except pure water, in an environment of complete rest. Rest must be encouraged since even moderate activity can significantly increase the metabolism, altering optimum adaptation to the fasting state. To maximize the benefits of fasting, unnecessary mobilization of nutrient reserves must be avoided. The Fasting Process Prior to beginning our fasting program, all participants must have a physical examination with one of our affiliated doctors. In addition, certain laboratory testing may be required and/or reviewed. Fasting is not appropriate for everyone. Fasting can be an intense and sometimes unpleasant experience, but it can also be highly effective. Relative contraindications to prolonged fasting include pregnancy, extreme weakness, inadequate nutrient reserves, some kidney problems, cardiac instability, the use of certain medications, and some types of cancer.

 

[chickenmammalove]

I agree with Mavrick. Unless you are fasting safely and partially for religion, things like avoiding wine and oil and processed foods for a few days a week or for a six week holiday, I don't think fasting is safe. One ten year vegan left veganism to be pescatarian because he had been doing intermittent fasting for six months to a year. He was starving himself. Duh. It wasn't veganism, it was fasting that hurt him.

Also raising your heart rate isn't a good thing?

I see this garbage so much on YouTube. I try to stick to the activists and cooking shows, but inevitably the starvation became my reality TV. It has nothing to do with veganism. It's called orthorexia and it's an eating disorder.

Don't water fast for more than 24 hours.

I didn't fast to be a better vegan. I've fasted before I went vegan (that was a while ago). If I had a poor experience with fasting, I would attribute it to fasting, obviously, not being vegan. Not sure what you mean by intermittent fasting (many people practice sustainable intermittent fasting for years by simply shortening their daily eating window), but obviously, starving oneself is not healthy. I rarely drink alcohol (it's been months since I last had a drink) and I make a point of avoiding oil, although I will eat it on occasion. Also, not sure why it's suddenly healthy to fast if it's for religious reasons. That doesn't make any sense. I fasted in a healthy way. I rested. I avoided exercise. I wasn't working. I spent the entire fast resting and relaxing. I drank plenty of water. I avoided caffeine. I re-introduced food slowly. I did my research and listened to experts on fasting.

I don't know if my heart rate was elevated (I didn't meausre it); it simply felt that way. And actually, a temporarily raised heart rate is normal. Heart rates rise and fall depending on our activity. If we're running, they elevate. If we're sleeping they drop. Many people's heart rates elevate temporarily after ingesting a meal.

As I said before, I listened to an expert in the field - not some "garbage on youtube." I listened to several talks and read articles by qualified doctors with experience in fasting for health benefits. The doctors themselves recommend a whole food plant based diet before and after fasting (preferably for life), but yes, fasting and veganism don't go hand in hand. Did I say they did? Orthorexia is a bogus eating disorder. It isn't even listed in the DSM V. It was completely made up. To find more info about orthorexia, go to nutritionfacts.org. People who fast do not automatically have eating disorders. People fast for many reasons and to make such a claim is highly insensitive and ignorant.

It's actually necessary to fast longer than 24 hours to acrue many of the health benefits. This is why I did a slightly longer fast.

Once again, I repeat: I shared my experience in order to compare with others' fasting experiences. If you have no interest in fasting, then don't comment. If you have no expertise on fasting, then don't share advice. You act as though I decided to fast for weeks on end with no supervision, having come from an unhealthy background, and then when it doesn't work out, will turn around and blame it on veganism. Calm down. If fasting isn't your thing, that's fine. I'm not pushing it on anyone. I just wanted to share and compare experiences, for those who have fasted.

 

[chickenmammalove]

They do good work at True North and yet I would imagine that they might be the first to suggest that you don't do it without medical supervision.

They have a good informative page on their website and along with what I have reprinted below it also suggests who would benefit most from a water fast and as I don't fall into any of the six categories I would not consider it for myself. If circumstances changed, for any reason, then I would consider as an option.

Emma JC

https://www.healthpromoting.com/water-fasting

Fasting is defined as the complete abstinence from all substances except pure water, in an environment of complete rest. Rest must be encouraged since even moderate activity can significantly increase the metabolism, altering optimum adaptation to the fasting state. To maximize the benefits of fasting, unnecessary mobilization of nutrient reserves must be avoided. The Fasting Process Prior to beginning our fasting program, all participants must have a physical examination with one of our affiliated doctors. In addition, certain laboratory testing may be required and/or reviewed. Fasting is not appropriate for everyone. Fasting can be an intense and sometimes unpleasant experience, but it can also be highly effective. Relative contraindications to prolonged fasting include pregnancy, extreme weakness, inadequate nutrient reserves, some kidney problems, cardiac instability, the use of certain medications, and some types of cancer.

They're talking about longer, supervised fasts (6-40 days) for the treatment of severe medical conditions. I would never fast longer than 5 days without medical supervision. I have no contraindications to fasting.

 

[Emma JC]

Once again, I repeat: I shared my experience in order to compare with others' fasting experiences. If you have no interest in fasting, then don't comment. If you have no expertise on fasting, then don't share advice. You act as though I decided to fast for weeks on end with no supervision, having come from an unhealthy background, and then when it doesn't work out, will turn around and blame it on veganism. Calm down. If fasting isn't your thing, that's fine. I'm not pushing it on anyone. I just wanted to share and compare experiences, for those who have fasted.

I have no contraindications to fasting.

This forum is read by a lot of people and if no one comments on a post about water fasting (or any other topic), other than the person that wrote it, some people may get the impression that it is a good thing to do and they should try it. Hence you had some pushback from some of our regular contributors including myself.

Not having any of the contraindications doesn't mean that it would be a benefit.

Did you keep up your regular daily activities or did you mainly rest, during your fast? I ask because there seems to be some discussion, out there, as to which is better.

Every day I learn new things by always researching and listening to and watching experts. This is the case with many of us here and so although we may not be experts ourselves we try to pass on information that is helpful as you have done also. I always welcome pushback on anything I post as that is the way that I learn. @Forest Nymph and I don't always agree on consuming oil and yet we respect each other's positions and I learn from her and hoping that she has learned a bit from me too.

Emma JC

 

[chickenmammalove]

Once again, I repeat: I shared my experience in order to compare with others' fasting experiences. If you have no interest in fasting, then don't comment. If you have no expertise on fasting, then don't share advice. You act as though I decided to fast for weeks on end with no supervision, having come from an unhealthy background, and then when it doesn't work out, will turn around and blame it on veganism. Calm down. If fasting isn't your thing, that's fine. I'm not pushing it on anyone. I just wanted to share and compare experiences, for those who have fasted.

I have no contraindications to fasting.

This forum is read by a lot of people and if no one comments on a post about water fasting (or any other topic), other than the person that wrote it, some people may get the impression that it is a good thing to do and they should try it. Hence you had some pushback from some of our regular contributors including myself.

Not having any of the contraindications doesn't mean that it would be a benefit.

Did you keep up your regular daily activities or did you mainly rest, during your fast? I ask because there seems to be some discussion, out there, as to which is better.

Every day I learn new things by always researching and listening to and watching experts. This is the case with many of us here and so although we may not be experts ourselves we try to pass on information that is helpful as you have done also. I always welcome pushback on anything I post as that is the way that I learn. @Forest Nymph and I don't always agree on consuming oil and yet we respect each other's positions and I learn from her and hoping that she has learned a bit from me too.

Emma JC

Ignorant criticism is different from pushback. Why do you automatically assume that fasting is a bad thing? If you read any of my previous posts, you'd have your answer about my activities while fasting. I learned about fasting by researching and listening to and watching experts (hence why I didn't come here for advice on the subject). None of these replies have been respectful. Respectful is actually reading the post and responding to that information in a thoughtful way. Unsolicited advice, unfounded assumptions, fear mongering, and failure to actually read the post is anything but respectful. I posted here to share and compare fasting experiences, hoping to have a better experience than the typical forum, where one tends to find a lot of trolls and general ignorance and disrespect. I was hoping to have an interesting discussion about body functions, the digestive system, metabolism, and the effects of fasting. Obviously, I made a mistake to assume this would be an open minded, intelligent, thoughtful community.

 

[mavrick45]

vegans have it hard enough

I try my damn hardest to keep pseudoscience as far away from it as possible

I can find not a single peer reviewed medical study that confirms that anything other than intermittent fasting is viable. every accredited study I have found say the same thing - it's dangerous


Fasting puts two different types of stress on your heart. First, it cannibalizes cardiac muscle for fuel. The human body does everything it can to conserve muscle during a fast, but inevitably some muscle will be sacrificed at the beginning of the fast. After a few days, the body switches over to using fat, but researchers have discovered that protein (muscle) utilization actually increases again later on, even though fat stores are still available. This protein includes the muscle in your heart: weaken this too much, and heart failure will result.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00260757#page-1

Strict water fasting is also a risk for heart failure because during a fast, the body’s intracellular stores of minerals vital for cardiac function, like magnesium and potassium, are depleted, even though serum levels remain normal. The results of this cardiac muscle loss and mineral deprivation can be tragic. During the 1950s and 60s, fasting was used as an experimental treatment for obesity, and several patients died (many from heart failure). Other reports of people dying during long fasts include more cases of heart failure. More recently, in 2010, a woman in Florida died after 21 days of fasting.

Less serious drawbacks also include intense mood swings, low energy, and irritability. Fasting lowers blood pressure, so you may feel weak, dizzy, or nauseous during the fast. It raises levels of the stress hormones norepinephrine and cortisol, probably an adaptation to give you more energy for finding food, but not beneficial for optimum health.

There’s also a darker side to the mental health benefits of fasting. For eating disordered people, fasting can quickly turn into another form of abuse (punishment for eating too much or anything “wrong.”) Because fasting is often accompanied by a strange kind of energy, it’s possible to get addicted to it, and ignore physical danger in pursuit of that “fasting high.” This is just as dangerous as any other form of chronic malnutrition and starvation.

and let's not forget the copious amounts of water you're going to be drinking. this can be dangerous too

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29455546

 

[TofuRobot]

I fasted for 7 days - water only - the same week I went vegan. I didn't make that decision until about day 3 of my fast, when I watched What The Health. People do different things when they fast, but you're supposed to rest as much as possible, which I pretty much did, so I did a lot of reading and binge-watching, and I became obsessed with educating myself on fasting, veganism, and eating WFPB. I have not done another 7-day fast, but I've done a couple 3-4 day fasts since. It's difficult to explain, but each time it was because I simply felt it was something my body, mind, and spirit needed to do. That first fast was altogether rewarding, enlightening, challenging, difficult, and easy (-ier than I expected it to be), and yes - I had *tons* of energy after, and even during my fast, as well as mental clarity. It's an amazing feeling. Honestly, I credit my veganism to that fast. In so many ways, I needed a "re-set" - I'm not sure what else to call it.

I have to second the nod to True North, which I discovered during that week, and when I fast (it's been a long time - probably a year) I stick pretty close to their guidelines, and the guidelines of Dr. Fuhrman and Alan Goldhamer.

My metabolism did not change (you have to fast a log longer for that to happen), I did not experience any changes in my heart rate (but it can happen during a longer fast), nor has my body temperature changed (I'm always cold, have always been and still am, LOL, and was freezing during my fast - it's a pretty common)... I could write a short story about it really, but I'm not sure this is the best forum for it. There are 2 Facebook groups I could recommend to you if you're interested, both of which are either pretty strictly guided by Dr. Fuhrman's fasting protocols, and try to promote a 'Nutritarian' diet (which just happens to be vegan). I trust the people who run the groups, they are not experts, but they have cured themselves of, or are successfully managing health issues with the assistance of periodic water-only fasting.

I'll probably jinx myself for saying this but I have not gotten sick since that 1st fast and becoming vegan. That was 2 years ago.
Anyway, that's my experience. If you want the links to those groups, LMK & I'll PM you.

PS. I haven't done a fast for quite a while mostly because I haven't felt like I needed to. But I *completely* changed my diet (it really does make a difference in how you experience a fast, and how much your body might benefit from fasting), so I suspect that has something to do with it. I may do a 3-4 day fast over the holidays, haven't decided yet.

 

[TofuRobot]

...Fasting is not "garbage" or "pseudoscience." I think that it might not be the right forum for this discussion, but slapping a blanket label onto something that is one might not understand or be educated on helps no one.

And @chickenmammalove , I think @Emma JC was being helpful by posting the info from TrueNorth. There is a lot of good info on their site. I think that perhaps you misunderstood her intent by quoting the info from their page.

Anyway - I would neither promote nor recommend fasting. The only thing I would do is try help point people in the right direction if they wanted more info. I have benefit from it, and I know people who have. But it isn't for everyone. You're right to ask questions, but a vegan forum is likely not the right audience for the discussion, that's all. The fact is, these days it's way outside of the norm - even further than veganism - and people just don't know much about it. Our culture(s) are chock full of people trying to sell us food. There is zero money to be made in studying something that is absolutely free. That's the bottom line.

I would recommend a sub-section of the forum be a good place for this kind of discussion, but I can't see why when there are good forums dedicated to the topic.

 

[Emma JC]

If you read any of my previous posts, you'd have your answer about my activities while fasting.

I apologize for not reading your subsequent posts closely enough, you did lay out your activities and obviously you were smart about limiting your activities.

Emma JC

 

[mavrick45]

...Fasting is not "garbage" or "pseudoscience."

please note that Im only specifically referring to water-fasting where people do it for at least a week straight and more.

which is, and has been scientifically proven, to be basically starving yourself like an anorexic. all the references I mentioned early verify this.

intermittent fasting IS real and does work and has multiple peer reviewed studies to back it up.

so im not 100% anti-fasting of all types

 

[TofuRobot]

please note that Im only specifically referring to water-fasting where people do it for at least a week straight and more.

which is, and has been scientifically proven, to be basically starving yourself like an anorexic. all the references I mentioned early verify this.

intermittent fasting IS real and does work and has multiple peer reviewed studies to back it up.

so im not 100% anti-fasting of all types

Well - again - not promoting it here - but this is not true. Extended fasting, done in a supervised medical setting (yes, of up to a week or longer) has many health benefits. Fasting - for even 7 days - is not "starving." As long as your body has fuel to burn (aka, fat), you're not starving.

If anyone is interested in the health benefits of fasting, be it intermittent or extended, please read Dr. Fuhrman's book, Fasting and Eating for Health (link).

A quick google would tell you that starving is literally "suffering or dying from hunger." This simply does not happen after a week or 2 of water-only fasting (for most people).

 

[Lou]

I've done something like fasting a few times. I had been given a book called The Three Day Energy Fast. The book is misnamed. Maybe by the marketing department because it really isn't a fast and it takes 9 days. I did it a few times both before and after I turned vegan.

It just sits on the shelf now because
1. I don't think i have any health issues that can best be solved by fasting.
2. I reluctantly came to the conclusion that there was little medical or scientific studies that went into this book. It was more like the author just read and combined a lot of stuff about fasting and dieting and put it in her book.
3. It requires a juicer. I gave away mine because I needed the cabinet space.

In the 3-Day NRG Fast, there is a 3-day transition before and after. then the middle 3 days has an all-fruit smoothie in the morning, a vegetable juice for lunch, and a vegetable broth for dinner.

Since TR recommended Fuhrman's book and I trust him I went to take it out of the library. But there is only one copy in my county and it's "missing".

I did read the description of the book and it does sound good. But just from the summary, i get the impression that Furhman doesn't give fasting a ringing endorsement.

Integrating an age-old health practice with state-of-the-art medical research, a program explains how a natural diet--without fasting--can renew health, how and why fasting works, and specific dietary and fasting programs for overcoming chronic diseases.​

I will try and find a different book to read. I'm still curious about fasting and I would like to lose a few more pounds, too.

 

[Lou]

Well i did find another book in the library, The Complete Book of Fasting. I haven't cracked it open yet.

But this morning I got an e-mail offer for a Free e-book on fasting by Dr. Fuhrman. It's not the same book that my library doesn't have. its just like 15 pages. I haven't read it yet but at 15 pages it won't take long. It also has some really good information on salads and salad dressings. Just for the salad info I think its worth downloading.

Here is the link to get the book.

This FREE e-book will show you how to make Intermittent Fasting a safe and effective part of your strategy to lose weight, and You’ll also get a Guide for Making the Perfect Salad – plus four delicious salad dressing recipes!​

​

Get the answers to your most pressing questions about intermittent fasting – download Dr. Fuhrman’s e-book today. (It's free!)​

 

[TofuRobot]

Well i did find another book in the library, The Complete Book of Fasting. I haven't cracked it open yet.

But this morning I got an e-mail offer for a Free e-book on fasting by Dr. Fuhrman. It's not the same book that my library doesn't have. its just like 15 pages. I haven't read it yet but at 15 pages it won't take long. It also has some really good information on salads and salad dressings. Just for the salad info I think its worth downloading.

Here is the link to get the book.

This FREE e-book will show you how to make Intermittent Fasting a safe and effective part of your strategy to lose weight, and You’ll also get a Guide for Making the Perfect Salad – plus four delicious salad dressing recipes!​

​

Get the answers to your most pressing questions about intermittent fasting – download Dr. Fuhrman’s e-book today. (It's free!)​

The funny thing about intermittent fasting is that I used to do it long before it became a thing. It was just the natural way ate. I strayed from that when I got married and it seemed like I had to conform to the 'must eat 3 meals a day' mentality. I believe that spiel was invented to sell food products.

About 11 years ago, when I was in what was probably the best shape of my life, I was going to college full time, getting up to run @ 5:30 five days/week to run, doing 60 pushups/day, and eating one (large) meal a day. I basically didn't worry about breakfast or eating at school, ate when I came home, and stopped eating by 4-5 o'clock and was teaching, doing homework, and/or practicing till 9 or 10 pm. To this day I have no idea where I had all that energy, LOL - especially in my pre-menopausal state with insomnia and night sweats. 'n' all.

But I remember when I was younger I would often skip meals. Surprisingly, I didn't die.