Vitamin B12

Were you tested for the MFTHR genetic makeup? Where you require the methylated form of B12 and/or folate?
Were you taking methylcobalamin or cyanocobalimin?
Cyanocobalimin is know to be more stable, so if it says it so much mcg it stays that amount, while methyl has been found to degrade from amount listed, BUT, if you have the genetic mfthr you won't be able to use cyano, so methylated is required.
I have not. I do not want to submit my genetic info to the machine. But, I could change my mind if certain things change with regards to our government and our health care system....
At the time, I was relying on a B12 toothpaste and nothing else: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0799HHLC2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Needless to say, I take supplements now and stopped using that.
 
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I take a B12 supplement about twice a week.... I have never had my blood tested. Just watched this video and it is interesting....


Emma JC
 
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I assumed that all vegans had blood tests for Vit B12 from time to time. :( As you get older it may be wise to do so, as it is more difficult to get absorbed as the lining of the stomach changes.
 
I like Jeff Nelson's VegSource videos, but he isn't a Registered Dietitian. I'm not sure that he's qualified to recommend/suggest that vegans stop taking B12 supplements.

All mainstream vegan organizations recommend that vegans take a B12 supplement:



 
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I like Jeff Nelson's VegSource videos, but he isn't a Registered Dietitian. I'm not sure that he's qualified to recommend/suggest that vegans stop taking B12 supplements.

All mainstream vegan organizations recommend that vegans take a B12 supplement:




I understand he isn't a Registered Dietician and I am not sure that it is a disqualifier. He has been studying the science and consulting with plant-based doctors and dieticians. I am also not saying he is completely correct and yet it is worth paying attention to and watching to see if any other studies come out or if anyone who is testing their blood can tell us what their levels are.

Emma JC
 
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I understand he isn't a Registered Dietician and I am not sure that it is a disqualifier. He has been studying the science and consulting with plant-based doctors and dieticians. I am also not saying he is completely correct and yet it is worth paying attention to and watching to see if any other studies come out or if anyone who is testing their blood can tell us what their levels are.

Emma JC

I agree with your statements 100%. I just wish that Jeff Nelson hadn't put that "skull & crossbones" symbol on the vitamin B12 bottle. That graphic suggests that he believes that B12 is poison, even though he probably being tongue-in-cheek (or trying to increase his video views).
 
I agree with your statements 100%. I just wish that Jeff Nelson hadn't put that "skull & crossbones" symbol on the vitamin B12 bottle. That graphic suggests that he believes that B12 is poison, even though he probably being tongue-in-cheek (or trying to increase his video views).

yup click-baity for sure and yet as with so many vitamins/supplements they can be poisonous if taken incorrectly

Emma JC
 
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I've always thought that, since B-12 is water-soluble, it would be unlikely to build up to harmful levels in your body from supplements. Even so, I take just part of a supplement tablet every day; I've always thought that extremely high doses were inefficiently absorbed.
 
I've always thought that, since B-12 is water-soluble, it would be unlikely to build up to harmful levels in your body from supplements. Even so, I take just part of a supplement tablet every day; I've always thought that extremely high doses were inefficiently absorbed.
That's what I thought, too. There''s something that just doesn't add up, I just can't figure out what it is.
 
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I agree with your statements 100%. I just wish that Jeff Nelson hadn't put that "skull & crossbones" symbol on the vitamin B12 bottle. That graphic suggests that he believes that B12 is poison, even though he probably being tongue-in-cheek (or trying to increase his video views).

funny thing.... he changed the thumbnail on the video

Emma JC

EDIT: I am wrong, I saw Happy Healthy Vegan's response to it and thought it was the original... Ryan's take on it is interesting and balanced IMO and he is going to back off on his own B12 supplements and will test again at the end of the year as he does every year
 
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The idea that vegans need to take supplements didn't always seem right to me, I feel that if a vegan diet is the healthiest diet a human should adapt then there shouldn't be a need for one to rely on auxiliary nutrients. After all there have been numerous people in the past who lived a perfectly long and healthy life with their vegan lifestyle, it wasn't until recent times that scientists appointed B12 as an essential nutrient and performed studies to show that vegans lack this particular vitamin.

This conception is so widely spread that everyone in my family as well as other vegetarians/vegan I know chooses to take supplements, which I consider to be the correct practice, that is if you live in the city and rely on grocery bought fruits and vegetables. As many probably already know B12 is produced by bacteria only, the belief that meat itself contains B12 is not true, as is proven by the fact that even people who eat meat can still lack B12.

I read an article that mentions a study done on Indian Yogis, the study showed that their B12 levels were perfectly fine when living in rural Indian, but plummeted when they were taken to a highly sanitary environment.

I'm inclined to believing the authenticity of the study as it agrees with common sense, after all we're living in an era when food sold in supermarkets are pre-washed with high pressure jet, leaving no traces of dirt, an abundance of cleaning products that we use are antibacterial, all of this results in us living in a nearly sterile environment, void of the benefits that "germs" has to offer (there was this Mother Earth News article that encourages parents to let their toddler come into contact with furry pets as a way of improving immunity).

I think that buying vegetables (ideally organic) from farmer's market or even better, growing your own food, is a great way to get a dose of B12 from time to time, deliberately not washing them too clean may in fact be beneficial. While I have yet to find any scientific study that endorses such practice, it seems to agree perfectly with what scientists discovered about B12 being synthesized by soil microbes, where else would you get free B12 than the soil in your garden :) ( but if you're confined to the city without easy access to local food then supplements would be the best choice in the situation, special case calls for special measures)
 
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The idea that vegans need to take supplements didn't always seem right to me, I feel that if a vegan diet is the healthiest diet a human should adapt then there shouldn't be a need for one to rely on auxiliary nutrients. After all there have been numerous people in the past who lived a perfectly long and healthy life with their vegan lifestyle, it wasn't until recent times that scientists appointed B12 as an essential nutrient and performed studies to show that vegans lack this particular vitamin.

This conception is so widely spread that everyone in my family as well as other vegetarians/vegan I know chooses to take supplements, which I consider to be the correct practice, that is if you live in the city and rely on grocery bought fruits and vegetables. As many probably already know B12 is produced by bacteria only, the belief that meat itself contains B12 is not true, as is proven by the fact that even people who eat meat can still lack B12.

I read an article that mentions a study done on Indian Yogis, the study showed that their B12 levels were perfectly fine when living in rural Indian, but plummeted when they were taken to a highly sanitary environment.

I'm inclined to believing the authenticity of the study as it agrees with common sense, after all we're living in an era when food sold in supermarkets are pre-washed with high pressure jet, leaving no traces of dirt, an abundance of cleaning products that we use are antibacterial, all of this results in us living in a nearly sterile environment, void of the benefits that "germs" has to offer (there was this Mother Earth News article that encourages parents to let their toddler come into contact with furry pets as a way of improving immunity).

I think that buying vegetables (ideally organic) from farmer's market or even better, growing your own food, is a great way to get a dose of B12 from time to time, deliberately not washing them too clean may in fact be beneficial. While I have yet to find any scientific study that endorses such practice, it seems to agree perfectly with what scientists discovered about B12 being synthesized by soil microbes, where else would you get free B12 than the soil in your garden :) ( but if you're confined to the city where you have no backyard then supplements would be the best choice in the situation, special case calls for special measures)

Hi alexw32,

I hope you will forgive, but it's not a good idea to tell vegans that vitamin B12 supplementation is unnecessary.

I have scoured the peer-reviewed studies, and I've never seen this study about Indian yogis and vitamin B12. If you are certain that such a study exists, please provide a direct link to that study.

Vitamin B12 supplements are incredibly cheap. Example: Amazon sells this bottle of 200 vitamin B12 tablets, each with 1000 mcg of B12, for $13: Amazon.com: Nature's Bounty Vitamin B-12 1000 Mcg, Supports Energy Metabolism 200 Coated Tablets: Health & Personal Care. This is a 2 year supply for only $13 (two tablets per week meets the recommendations of all mainstream vegan organizations).

All mainstream vegan organizations recommend that vegans take B12 supplements:

Vegetarian Resource Group (vegan): -- The Vegetarian Resource Group

Vegan Society UK: Vitamin B12

North American Vegetarian Society (vegan): Nutrition Matters: Six Stumbling Blocks and How to Avoid Them - North American Vegetarian Society

.
 
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The idea that vegans need to take supplements didn't always seem right to me, I feel that if a vegan diet is the healthiest diet a human should adapt then there shouldn't be a need for one to rely on auxiliary nutrients. After all there have been numerous people in the past who lived a perfectly long and healthy life with their vegan lifestyle, it wasn't until recent times that scientists appointed B12 as an essential nutrient and performed studies to show that vegans lack this particular vitamin.

This conception is so widely spread that everyone in my family as well as other vegetarians/vegan I know chooses to take supplements, which I consider to be the correct practice, that is if you live in the city and rely on grocery bought fruits and vegetables. As many probably already know B12 is produced by bacteria only, the belief that meat itself contains B12 is not true, as is proven by the fact that even people who eat meat can still lack B12.

I read an article that mentions a study done on Indian Yogis, the study showed that their B12 levels were perfectly fine when living in rural Indian, but plummeted when they were taken to a highly sanitary environment.

I'm inclined to believing the authenticity of the study as it agrees with common sense, after all we're living in an era when food sold in supermarkets are pre-washed with high pressure jet, leaving no traces of dirt, an abundance of cleaning products that we use are antibacterial, all of this results in us living in a nearly sterile environment, void of the benefits that "germs" has to offer (there was this Mother Earth News article that encourages parents to let their toddler come into contact with furry pets as a way of improving immunity).

I think that buying vegetables (ideally organic) from farmer's market or even better, growing your own food, is a great way to get a dose of B12 from time to time, deliberately not washing them too clean may in fact be beneficial. While I have yet to find any scientific study that endorses such practice, it seems to agree perfectly with what scientists discovered about B12 being synthesized by soil microbes, where else would you get free B12 than the soil in your garden :) ( but if you're confined to the city without easy access to local food then supplements would be the best choice in the situation, special case calls for special measures)

I discussed this in the beginning of this thread. The bacteria that produce B12 in our guts lives in our large intestine. The site for B12 absorption is in our small intestine. So ingesting the bacteria does not help.
 
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The idea that vegans need to take supplements didn't always seem right to me, I feel that if a vegan diet is the healthiest diet a human should adapt then there shouldn't be a need for one to rely on auxiliary nutrients. After all there have been numerous people in the past who lived a perfectly long and healthy life with their vegan lifestyle, it wasn't until recent times that scientists appointed B12 as an essential nutrient and performed studies to show that vegans lack this particular vitamin.

This conception is so widely spread that everyone in my family as well as other vegetarians/vegan I know chooses to take supplements, which I consider to be the correct practice, that is if you live in the city and rely on grocery bought fruits and vegetables. As many probably already know B12 is produced by bacteria only, the belief that meat itself contains B12 is not true, as is proven by the fact that even people who eat meat can still lack B12.

I read an article that mentions a study done on Indian Yogis, the study showed that their B12 levels were perfectly fine when living in rural Indian, but plummeted when they were taken to a highly sanitary environment.

I'm inclined to believing the authenticity of the study as it agrees with common sense, after all we're living in an era when food sold in supermarkets are pre-washed with high pressure jet, leaving no traces of dirt, an abundance of cleaning products that we use are antibacterial, all of this results in us living in a nearly sterile environment, void of the benefits that "germs" has to offer (there was this Mother Earth News article that encourages parents to let their toddler come into contact with furry pets as a way of improving immunity).

I think that buying vegetables (ideally organic) from farmer's market or even better, growing your own food, is a great way to get a dose of B12 from time to time, deliberately not washing them too clean may in fact be beneficial. While I have yet to find any scientific study that endorses such practice, it seems to agree perfectly with what scientists discovered about B12 being synthesized by soil microbes, where else would you get free B12 than the soil in your garden :) ( but if you're confined to the city without easy access to local food then supplements would be the best choice in the situation, special case calls for special measures)
That is exactly what we've been told all along, however it isn't simply the bacteria involved in b12 asbsorption. This explains it well, and please note the part about 'feces'. What Lou says is correct-
I discussed this in the beginning of this thread. The bacteria that produce B12 in our guts lives in our large intestine. The site for B12 absorption is in our small intestine. So ingesting the bacteria does not help.
You need to have the bacteria digested and then "eliminated". Of course vegan elimination is preferred!
Anyway, I'm sticking to a sublingual supplement!
 
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The idea that vegans need to take supplements didn't always seem right to me, I feel that if a vegan diet is the healthiest diet a human should adapt then there shouldn't be a need for one to rely on auxiliary nutrients. After all there have been numerous people in the past who lived a perfectly long and healthy life with their vegan lifestyle, it wasn't until recent times that scientists appointed B12 as an essential nutrient and performed studies to show that vegans lack this particular vitamin.

Hi alexw32,

Vitamin B12 was identified in 1947, according to the American Chemical Society: Vitamin B Complex - American Chemical Society

The Vegan Society, and the word "vegan", were established in 1944: History

Indian yogis have not traditionally been vegan. Rather, yogis have followed the Sattvic diet, a vegetarian diet that includes dairy products (which naturally contain vitamin B12): What is Sattvic diet? - The Yoga Institute
.
 
Hi alexw32,

Vitamin B12 was identified in 1947, according to the American Chemical Society: Vitamin B Complex - American Chemical Society

The Vegan Society, and the word "vegan", were established in 1944: History

Indian yogis have not traditionally been vegan. Rather, yogis have followed the Sattvic diet, a vegetarian diet that includes dairy products (which naturally contain vitamin B12): What is Sattvic diet? - The Yoga Institute
.

Hi David,

First of all I appreciate you finding these facts for me, I admit that I hadn't done very detailed research on the subjects you've mentioned.

I do want to make myself clear though in that I'm not at all suggesting vegans to not take supplements, in fact in the end of my post I urged those who don't have access to more naturally cultivated to take B12 supplements as they wish, I myself eat nutritional yeast which is fortified with B12 as a means of replenishment.

My point was about the act of taking supplements being somewhat unfitting with the vegan diet which is considered to be a natural lifestyle. To me the need to take artificial pills in order to maintain a healthy body feels a bit unsettling, as if nature doesn't have the capacity to produce sufficiently nutritional food to satisfy our bodily needs. But again as I emphasized in the end, taking into considerations of the environment most of us are dwelling in we'll have to resort to supplements.

I found the article silva provided very helpful as it aligns with my thoughts very well, such as "Due to declining soil quality from intensive over-farming making the soil deficient in cobalt, and because our vegetables are super-washed (because we would rather not eat soil/manure) vegans don't get enough B12 without supplementation and fortification. " Perhaps in an ideal world where more people can grow their own vegetables on rich soil, artificial pills wouldn't be relied upon as much.
 
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Hi David,

First of all I appreciate you finding these facts for me, I admit that I hadn't done very detailed research on the subjects you've mentioned.

I do want to make myself clear though in that I'm not at all suggesting vegans to not take supplements, in fact in the end of my post I urged those who don't have access to more naturally cultivated to take B12 supplements as they wish, I myself eat nutritional yeast which is fortified with B12 as a means of replenishment.

My point was about the act of taking supplements being somewhat unfitting with the vegan diet which is considered to be a natural lifestyle. To me the need to take artificial pills in order to maintain a healthy body feels a bit unsettling, as if nature doesn't have the capacity to produce sufficiently nutritional food to satisfy our bodily needs. But again as I emphasized in the end, taking into considerations of the environment most of us are dwelling in we'll have to resort to supplements.

I found the article silva provided very helpful, I think it aligns with my thoughts well such as "Due to declining soil quality from intensive over-farming making the soil deficient in cobalt, and because our vegetables are super-washed (because we would rather not eat soil/manure) vegans don't get enough B12 without supplementation and fortification. " Perhaps in an ideal world where more people can grow their own vegetables on rich soil, artificial pills wouldn't be relied upon as much.
Don't forget the feces! :up:
A little b12 is needed if you get it every day. Way more if every other day. Way, way more if twice a week. Way, way way more if once a week.
If you're eating nooch with B12 you're doing the same thing as taking a supplement, and would need it every day. You're also getting artificial folic acid, which isn't known to be good for you. If you eat unwashed produce from a garden with manure you don't know how much you're actually getting, or not getting.
I find the argument of 'natural' gives a false narrative
I
 
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My point was about the act of taking supplements being somewhat unfitting with the vegan diet which is considered to be a natural lifestyle. To me the need to take artificial pills in order to maintain a healthy body feels a bit unsettling, as if nature doesn't have the capacity to produce sufficiently nutritional food to satisfy our bodily needs.

I agree. However, that is more of a philosophical topic, not an evidence-based nutrition topic.

.
 
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