Veganism, utilitarianism, edge-cases

[Col]

Possibly.
But honestly, like I said...nuance and trying to be sensible about my stance. Especially seeing as I am the only "vegan" I know.
I don't worry about every bottle of wine or beer because quite honestly, life is too short. I buy vegan wine for myself at home, and think the beer I buy is vegan, but in the end, it's a minor issue. And AFAIK no beer states "vegan" on the label, and not all wines that are vegan do.
I am contributing more to animal suffering buying almonds than I am to having a glass of wine that *might* have used a non-vegan filtering agent.

And if I am out on business, I will be joining in. Sure, I eat the plant-based meal, but these things are usually drink-centric. I'll stick to the wine and beer and simply not worry about if some fining agent back in the filtering stage wasn't vegan, because the alternative is to get into a discussion about "why the **** are you drinking water?"

Oh and the "consuming" the non-vegan bread. I don't any more. Although I don't think it's not vegan to do so in that circumstance.

Well done doing what you can,
I am Self employed and I will speak out when questioned at work I feel it may make a minority try make me look out of place but as a protected belief in my country I can be thick skinned and I only live once like everybody else. Best wishes at work

 

[Matteo]

Possibly.
But honestly, like I said...nuance and trying to be sensible about my stance. Especially seeing as I am the only "vegan" I know.
I don't worry about every bottle of wine or beer because quite honestly, life is too short. I buy vegan wine for myself at home, and think the beer I buy is vegan, but in the end, it's a minor issue. And AFAIK no beer states "vegan" on the label, and not all wines that are vegan do.
I am contributing more to animal suffering buying almonds than I am to having a glass of wine that *might* have used a non-vegan filtering agent.

And if I am out on business, I will be joining in. Sure, I eat the plant-based meal, but these things are usually drink-centric. I'll stick to the wine and beer and simply not worry about if some fining agent back in the filtering stage wasn't vegan, because the alternative is to get into a discussion about "why the **** are you drinking water?"

Oh and the "consuming" the non-vegan bread. I don't any more. Although I don't think it's not vegan to do so in that circumstance.

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you meant the alcohol itself wasn't vegan - not the filtering process. Put simply, I do think these, along with other situations, like eating non-vegan food accidentally given to you, are arbitrary and don't really matter but I do believe it's better to avoid these situations for the things I said before (such as normalizing vegans doing things that are arbitrarily wrong).

 

[g0rph]

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you meant the alcohol itself wasn't vegan - not the filtering process. Put simply, I do think these, along with other situations, like eating non-vegan food accidentally given to you, are arbitrary and don't really matter but I do believe it's better to avoid these situations for the things I said before (such as normalizing vegans doing things that are arbitrarily wrong).

Sometimes I check on barnivore, but often the beers are not there.
With wines it's tough. There is no legal compulsion to put "vegan" on the label. So, although some wines do have it, not all those that don't are "not vegan".

Of course if the alcohol was specifically not vegan in ingredients, I wouldn't consume it...eg. I was in a bar in Denmark and one of the beers was brewed using milk...

 

[ewomack]

I no longer worry much about the term "vegan," because it's become a word that means so many different things to so many different people, I'm not sure whether I know what it means any more. Regardless, I try to be as "vegan" as I can. I do eat meat once in a great while, usually for dinners cooked by someone in my family. I may also give in once in a great while on a vacation, but this rarely happens. Otherwise, 99% of the time I eat no meat. It doesn't even sound appealing to me anymore. We keep none in our house and when we eat out it's pretty much always to a 100% plant-based place (we went to one just this afternoon). Our state fair, once a bastion of meat products, has even introduced vegan options over the past few years, which has been incredible. So it's become easier. I seem happier overall not putting pressure on myself, because being a "true vegan" (in whatever sense that means) is very difficult. In the end, I'm "mostly vegan," but I know that term offends many vegans, so I've stopped using it and instead saying "I don't eat a lot of meat," which is an exaggeration, because I eat almost none. But I find that I can "get away" with not eating meat in mixed company by saying "I'm cutting down on meat" rather than saying "I'm vegan." My meat-heavy work lunches have become much more comfortable after that discovery.

 

[g0rph]

I no longer worry much about the term "vegan," because it's become a word that means so many different things to so many different people, I'm not sure whether I know what it means any more. Regardless, I try to be as "vegan" as I can. I do eat meat once in a great while, usually for dinners cooked by someone in my family. I may also give in once in a great while on a vacation, but this rarely happens. Otherwise, 99% of the time I eat no meat. It doesn't even sound appealing to me anymore. We keep none in our house and when we eat out it's pretty much always to a 100% plant-based place (we went to one just this afternoon). Our state fair, once a bastion of meat products, has even introduced vegan options over the past few years, which has been incredible. So it's become easier. I seem happier overall not putting pressure on myself, because being a "true vegan" (in whatever sense that means) is very difficult. In the end, I'm "mostly vegan," but I know that term offends many vegans, so I've stopped using it and instead saying "I don't eat a lot of meat," which is an exaggeration, because I eat almost none. But I find that I can "get away" with not eating meat in mixed company by saying "I'm cutting down on meat" rather than saying "I'm vegan." My meat-heavy work lunches have become much more comfortable after that discovery.

Whilst your stance is better than 95% of people, I do struggle to understand it

Work meals... I demand 100% plant-based. If there isn't an option I take fries or salad.
Once I realised the horror, the idea of eating another sentient being became repulsive... Even though, taste and physical pleasure-wise I know I would enjoy it. I still miss rib-eye, 2.5 years later.

 

[Lou]

Whilst your stance is better than 95% of people,

Aw c'mon. At least 97.5%
At my school, 97% and above was an A+. That's almost perfect. and no one is perfect. So you are basically concerned about just 1%.

And remember... Perfect is the enemy of good.

 

[Col]

Aw c'mon. At least 97.5%
At my school, 97% and above was an A+. That's almost perfect. and no one is perfect. So you are basically concerned about just 1%.

And remember... Perfect is the enemy of good.

My school had some bullies,
I met one of them two days ago and he genuinely apologised and told me of good work he has done since. Now we both have peace.
The school’s policy was not zero tolerance which would have been simpler.
The message of non violence is simple;
The message of veganism is simple.

As no one is perfect we then can continue to try
I respect the honesty expressed here and the will to communicate.

 

[silva]

I no longer worry much about the term "vegan," because it's become a word that means so many different things to so many different people, I'm not sure whether I know what it means any more. Regardless, I try to be as "vegan" as I can. I do eat meat once in a great while, usually for dinners cooked by someone in my family. I may also give in once in a great while on a vacation, but this rarely happens. Otherwise, 99% of the time I eat no meat. It doesn't even sound appealing to me anymore. We keep none in our house and when we eat out it's pretty much always to a 100% plant-based place (we went to one just this afternoon). Our state fair, once a bastion of meat products, has even introduced vegan options over the past few years, which has been incredible. So it's become easier. I seem happier overall not putting pressure on myself, because being a "true vegan" (in whatever sense that means) is very difficult. In the end, I'm "mostly vegan," but I know that term offends many vegans, so I've stopped using it and instead saying "I don't eat a lot of meat," which is an exaggeration, because I eat almost none. But I find that I can "get away" with not eating meat in mixed company by saying "I'm cutting down on meat" rather than saying "I'm vegan." My meat-heavy work lunches have become much more comfortable after that discovery.

That's a win for all involved. I truly hate reading someones positive response to a vegan recipe that admits they aren't vegan and then all the hard azz vegans get all nasty.
If we really want people to stop eating animals why not be more concerned about normalizing plant foods in incremental ways. I still remember the first year going vegan, I had to think about so many foods. Every Mexican dish I liked because of cheese, I chose pizza places based on cheese.
It takes time for the brain to adjust to new normals

I have to say, I cannot understand eating meat that rarely! It very quickly became putrid to me, though cheese did not. By now I can at least not miss cheddar, but I still miss pizza mozz. Vegan mozz is always either sticky, flavorless, or just solid (solid is what I find to be best)

 

[veganfortheanimalss]

To become 100% vegan, we need to move out of the earth biosphere and settle in another planet and farm only synthetic food. This is good as an end goal or a direction to move towards but right now it's unnecessary. Right now almost all animal killings are for food, wool, leather and such likes. We need to first move towards a cruelty free plate before anything else.
Pick up feathers, it's not unvegan. Same for eating dairy or meat which is gonna be thrown away. Try your utmost to feed it to your animals, as a last resort eat them. Throwing them away is actually less vegan than eating it as it took some amount of death to get your pure vegan food on your plate. This is what differentiates us from the religious morons. For us reducing our imprint on death and suffering must be the primary goal. Everything else is next.

 

[veganfortheanimalss]

Don't agree with you eating animals out of choice. If there are affordable alternatives available then go for them.
Don't agree with killing ants and wasps. Find alternatives. I always do.
Animals should not be exploited for pleasure. Unavoidable exploitation should be rewarded with till the death bed care. Else all exploitation is bad.