Vegan Rules That Don't Make Sense
- Thread starter Lou
- Start date
some very excellent points - I haven't been able to support almond milk production for all of the reasons listed, oat milk for me or banana in a pinch
Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
I can see the point about almond milk. But palm oil is used in tons of non-vegan foods as well, so I take issue with bringing that up as a vegan problem. I really just see this as veiled criticism of veganism and calling out "judgy" vegans (a tired argument) -- and also as a way to justify eating local eggs, honey and dead flesh because they have less of an impact on the environment. In the case of dead flesh, the animal still dies for human consumption. Veganism isn't just about the environment, though that aspect has been added to the definition over the years. It's about not exploiting/commodifying animals. Eating eggs and local honey reinforces the acceptance of exploitation, IMHO.
I don't consider myself morally superior by drinking almond milk, and that assumption is tiresome and a constant criticism from anti-vegans. And perhaps I will consider stopping almond milk (I wish I liked oat milk, but I find it awful, lol), but this video pretty much ignores the greater environmental impact of animal agriculture as a whole -- not to mention the cruelty to animals, which is why many people go vegan in the first place. It's kind of like cherry-picking. I don't know, we live in complicated times, and it' s not easy trying to feed the world.
I don't consider myself morally superior by drinking almond milk, and that assumption is tiresome and a constant criticism from anti-vegans. And perhaps I will consider stopping almond milk (I wish I liked oat milk, but I find it awful, lol), but this video pretty much ignores the greater environmental impact of animal agriculture as a whole -- not to mention the cruelty to animals, which is why many people go vegan in the first place. It's kind of like cherry-picking. I don't know, we live in complicated times, and it' s not easy trying to feed the world.
I use oat milk after reading which one is the best for the environment etc… I didn’t really like dairy milk anyway so for me I just use it in tea or smoothies.
Every one’s taste is So different! I really love Oat mylk!!
Before it became mainstream I bought soy, but I Much prefer Oat!
Before it became mainstream I bought soy, but I Much prefer Oat!
I do like soy milk, but not for drinking. I cook and bake with it, though. I will rethink my almond milk consumption, though.
Unfortunately, even though the video does make a few valid points to me it does more harm than good…
As @PTree15 mentioned it gives justification for eating non Vegan foods because they “might” be less harmful to the environment… For myself being Vegan is First and Foremost for the animals…
I’m curious about who produced this video?
I think that there are Many better ways of conveying the downside to Almond mylk and Palm Oil than this video does.
As @PTree15 mentioned it gives justification for eating non Vegan foods because they “might” be less harmful to the environment… For myself being Vegan is First and Foremost for the animals…
I’m curious about who produced this video?
I think that there are Many better ways of conveying the downside to Almond mylk and Palm Oil than this video does.
OP
OP
It's a website/ online magazine called VegOut.
I started subscribing to their newsletter mainly for the recipes. I have read some of the articles. I've liked them so far.
This video goes out on a bit of a limb. and I think they could have made their point in any number of different ways.
But Many vegans and Many well intended people drink almond milk. Just look at how many shelves it gets in the grocery store.
I've always been a fan of soy milk (for the nutrition). Never did drink almond milk but I knew about the evironmental damage it causes and never buy it. But more people need to stop buying it. I'm sure there are non-vegans who buy it. This video does a pretty good job of targeting vegans who might still be buying it.
I also go out of my way to avoid palm oil. but it's in almost everything and sometimes it's just hard to avoid. But more people (not just vegans) need to start avoiding it. If palm oil products didn't sell, than they would stop putting it in everything.
The other points are of less consequence to me. but important enough for us to keep in mind at the grocery store.
Such straw man arguements! First off, what percent of almonds are consumed by vegans? Now only are almonds a popular nut by themselves, almond milk seems to be a very popular choice for diets in general, in fact it's both keto and paleo friendly! Vegans are not responsible for them having become a mono crop.
Honey--I absolutely believe in the idea of responsible beekeepers helping the population. I'm personally torn between wishing it didn't promote the use, but I can also see them needing the funds to continue. Many keepers really do love bees. The opinions of vegans really have no impact either way
Palm oil--vegans, and most others, are aware of palm oil and I think they should do their best to avoid it, but to add every impact that a food can have on animals would be quite excessive.
Leather--You do what you need to do, but there is no reason to purchase leather other than need. My safety shoes were leather as I could not find others I could comfortably wear. My ankle brace was leather.
Eggs- if we make exceptions to the vegan standard for 'ethically sourced' eggs why not dairy? or wool? or......? Veganism is about not seeing animal products as food. Period. Most would not think to eat insects, albeit they are food, and that's what veganism is about--not seeing things from animals as food or commodities
This should be directed at the general population rather than pointing fingers at vegans.
I think the larger picture shouldn't be changing what vegan means but promoting the desire to strive for those goals. What is the shame of saying 'mostly vegan', or 'I strive to keep vegan'? You don't need to say you're vegan if you're not
Honey--I absolutely believe in the idea of responsible beekeepers helping the population. I'm personally torn between wishing it didn't promote the use, but I can also see them needing the funds to continue. Many keepers really do love bees. The opinions of vegans really have no impact either way
Palm oil--vegans, and most others, are aware of palm oil and I think they should do their best to avoid it, but to add every impact that a food can have on animals would be quite excessive.
Leather--You do what you need to do, but there is no reason to purchase leather other than need. My safety shoes were leather as I could not find others I could comfortably wear. My ankle brace was leather.
Eggs- if we make exceptions to the vegan standard for 'ethically sourced' eggs why not dairy? or wool? or......? Veganism is about not seeing animal products as food. Period. Most would not think to eat insects, albeit they are food, and that's what veganism is about--not seeing things from animals as food or commodities
This should be directed at the general population rather than pointing fingers at vegans.
I think the larger picture shouldn't be changing what vegan means but promoting the desire to strive for those goals. What is the shame of saying 'mostly vegan', or 'I strive to keep vegan'? You don't need to say you're vegan if you're not
I'm having a hard enough time with vegan options that I rely on becoming unavailable ...I don't see me stopping almond milk anytime soon. I guess it would be nice if I just had a stronger resolve and didn't care about enjoying my food. Unfortunately that's not me.
Same here. Dinner has to be outstanding if not I'm not a very happy person.
To me all plant milks taste the same, apart from coconut milk that I dislike for some reason. I used to refuse to drink the dairy milk we had at school. It made me feel 
sick.
sick.
Ahimsa24/7
Forum Novice
I never realized that it was a RULE that I had to drink almond milk to be a vegan. Really poor choice of words by the maker of the video.
Looking at the Veg Out website, they also have an article apparently meant to scare people off wine and beer because they MAY contain some animal products in fairly minuscule amounts (apart from the obvious honey and milk). Since beer makers (at least in the US) are not obliged to reveal their ingredients, this looks like one more thing to stay up nights over if one chooses to do so.
Looking at the Veg Out website, they also have an article apparently meant to scare people off wine and beer because they MAY contain some animal products in fairly minuscule amounts (apart from the obvious honey and milk). Since beer makers (at least in the US) are not obliged to reveal their ingredients, this looks like one more thing to stay up nights over if one chooses to do so.
(your post only partially quoted) I guess I'm lucky. I think I have a personality trait or two that could make me prone to alcoholism, but I never cared for alcohol, although I tried it out of curiosity a few times. The most recent time was when I had a glass of Guinness Stout back in 2000 (I was visiting Ireland, Britain, and the Netherlands); I finished it, but I wouldn't care if I never had an alcoholic drink again. (I didn't think about whether the Guinness was vegan or not; I just assumed it was).
I didn't watch the whole thing because they again falsely stated that someone can go vegan for health or environment...NO YOU CAN'T.
Again, there is nothing unhealthy about leather. There is nothing environmentally bad about hunting deer or moose.
You go vegan for ethical reasons alone.
However...
Oat milk(Coffee) and Soy milk(tea) for me.
I don't like Almond milk anyway.
But you can also buy regenerative almonds, palm oil etc. Just check the labels.
Again, there is nothing unhealthy about leather. There is nothing environmentally bad about hunting deer or moose.
You go vegan for ethical reasons alone.
However...
Oat milk(Coffee) and Soy milk(tea) for me.
I don't like Almond milk anyway.
But you can also buy regenerative almonds, palm oil etc. Just check the labels.
Isn't it odd that they always talk about almond milk, but not almonds? I'm not a fan of almond milk, but I love almonds
Seems so many vegan nutritionists promote it for health rather than just say plant based, or wfpb. Saying vegan does not imply the health benefits of your diet. There are many whole food omnivores who eat far healthier than my average diet. I always bristle when they say vegans are healthier
Same with environmental reasons, however, for anyone living off the grid and relying on gardening, foraging, hunting and fishing, I would give more props than many vegans! But that isn't very realistic for most
Guinness is now vegan, and man would I like one now! I only abstain 'cause I'm cheap
Seems so many vegan nutritionists promote it for health rather than just say plant based, or wfpb. Saying vegan does not imply the health benefits of your diet. There are many whole food omnivores who eat far healthier than my average diet. I always bristle when they say vegans are healthier
Same with environmental reasons, however, for anyone living off the grid and relying on gardening, foraging, hunting and fishing, I would give more props than many vegans! But that isn't very realistic for most
Guinness is now vegan, and man would I like one now! I only abstain 'cause I'm cheap
Jamie in Chile
Forum Legend
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2016
- Reaction score
- 2,044
- Age
- 45
- Lifestyle
- Vegetarian
Of course it's correct that some vegan foods might cause more harm than some non-vegan foods but I think it's actually pretty rare. I doubt that there is any vegan food that causes as much harm per calorie as eating chicken or eggs. If you're comparing packaged foods with small amount of animal product then this might be true.
From a climate change perspective, I looked into it a fair bit and only rice and food flown long distances on a plane can truly compete with meat and dairy for climate impact, so I tend to considerably reduce the amount of rice I eat.
I do buy almonds, but that's because I'd forgotten about their negative impacts in recent years to be honest or at least didn't have it on my mind when I bought that. I probably should stop eating almonds. However, if you eliminate both almonds and animal milk it might be worth reviewing whether your calcium intake is sufficient.
The thing is in theory you can do better than vegan by carefully weighing all harms, but it's rather impractical.
At least two statements in the video I disagree with:
“a vegan who eats high impact foods, flies frequently, and judges others for imperfection is not automatically better for the world than an omnivore who eats local, seasonal food and makes thoughtful choices about what they consume”.
I think this is not true. I think the first is just better. All the data and studies show that local and seasonal has minimal impact, and certainly nothing compared to the impact of killing someone and eating their body.
“some vegan foods cause tremendous harm”
very few vegan foods if any cause tremendous harm. I believe all the almond farms cause tremendous harm, but I won't believe one pack of almonds causes "tremendous" harm.
The trouble with this video is if you go vegan and someone says "and now you have to also stop eating almonds and rice to be consistent and to only eat local, seasonal foods" then there's a risk people will just be like "f**k this" and just give up on ethical eating entirely and go back to eating meat which will cause far more harm than successfully convincing someone to stop almonds. Perhaps better to celebrate the veganism already achieved.
That's why I mostly only advocate to not eat fish, meat and eggs.
If you want to eat ethically, veganism is 95% of the answer. Local food is 0.1% of the answer. Who cares.
From a climate change perspective, I looked into it a fair bit and only rice and food flown long distances on a plane can truly compete with meat and dairy for climate impact, so I tend to considerably reduce the amount of rice I eat.
I do buy almonds, but that's because I'd forgotten about their negative impacts in recent years to be honest or at least didn't have it on my mind when I bought that. I probably should stop eating almonds. However, if you eliminate both almonds and animal milk it might be worth reviewing whether your calcium intake is sufficient.
The thing is in theory you can do better than vegan by carefully weighing all harms, but it's rather impractical.
At least two statements in the video I disagree with:
“a vegan who eats high impact foods, flies frequently, and judges others for imperfection is not automatically better for the world than an omnivore who eats local, seasonal food and makes thoughtful choices about what they consume”.
I think this is not true. I think the first is just better. All the data and studies show that local and seasonal has minimal impact, and certainly nothing compared to the impact of killing someone and eating their body.
“some vegan foods cause tremendous harm”
very few vegan foods if any cause tremendous harm. I believe all the almond farms cause tremendous harm, but I won't believe one pack of almonds causes "tremendous" harm.
The trouble with this video is if you go vegan and someone says "and now you have to also stop eating almonds and rice to be consistent and to only eat local, seasonal foods" then there's a risk people will just be like "f**k this" and just give up on ethical eating entirely and go back to eating meat which will cause far more harm than successfully convincing someone to stop almonds. Perhaps better to celebrate the veganism already achieved.
That's why I mostly only advocate to not eat fish, meat and eggs.
If you want to eat ethically, veganism is 95% of the answer. Local food is 0.1% of the answer. Who cares.
