Nutrition & Diet Vegan-friendly diets

[Graeme M]

I'm interested to see what other members think about the vegan-friendly diet - what is it?

In conversations elsewhere I've run into the odd argument that if you cannot obtain suitable plant-sourced alternatives for your food (eg living somewhere that food is scarce, traditional cultures, jail, some odd physical issues such as allergies to pulses), you are not allowed to eat anything animal-sourced to assure your health and wellbeing. If you do, you aren't vegan.

Here's my take on it. Anyone who adopts veganism (or what I call vegan ethics) because they think animals matter enough will make a bonafide effort to replace animal-sourced foods with plant-sourced alternatives. Most vegans are likely able to do that. But if for some reason someone can't do that, then they can include animal-sourced foods. They should still seek to be guided by vegan ethics to the maximum extent they can. So the hierarchy of choice might go like this:

A. Buy/source plant options
B. Buy/source as much plant foods as possible, but include animal-sourced foods where production systems come as close to vegan ideals as possible
C. Buy/source as much plant foods as possible, but include animal-sourced foods where production systems come as close to vegan ideals as possible, and if that has to be from CAFO systems that's acceptable.

People doing either B or C are not vegans, but they ARE being guided by vegan ethics as much as they can in their circumstances.

What do you think?

 

[pear]

I pretty much agree with you. It seems like, for the sake of community, reserving the vegan title for those who forgo animal products is the right move.

That said, I recognize that it's complicated. There are legitimate reasons why someone might not be able to practically discontinue their consumption of all animal products, as you mentioned. Plant-based diets are only economical in about half of the world. Food deserts are prevalent, cultural traditions exist, resources are limited, and education is currently substandard in making veganism accessible. These things don't disqualify anyone from living ethically. But it's hard enough to disentangle these kinds of issues from personal choice that it feels fruitless to try. I think our efforts are better used in simply trying to improve things to the point where everyone does have the option to go vegan.

The onus is on us to get there. It's fantastic if people are acting ethically in their circumstances, regardless of it being "vegan".

 

[MichaelHauer]

I agree. But I am curious as to the claim that:

“Plant-based diets are only economical in about half of the world.”

Where does this info come from?

 

[pear]

I agree. But I am curious as to the claim that:

“Plant-based diets are only economical in about half of the world.”

Where does this info come from?

https://doi.org/10.1016/S2542-5196(21)00251-5
https://doi.org/10.1016/S2214-109X(19)30447-4

These studies are somewhat dense. They do both have optimistic outlooks for making plant-based diets economical for everyone, but only with continued investment and food system improvement. Part of the work we must do, in my view.

 

[MichaelHauer]

Thanks for sending those links - I’ll take a look.

 

[MichaelHauer]

I’ve just had a first look at the essays. The ‘conclusions’ are, as they insist, not ‘conclusive’. It seems that the issue lies partly in the fact that meat products are very cheap in “high income countries” - and eating vegetables is even cheaper, and animal meat is far less affordable in “low income countries” - but the catch seems to be that if these low income areas improve general food affordability people will opt for consuming more meat.

Anecdotally, I lived in Sudan (what is happening there now is beyond tragic) for a while - during the ‘live aid’ efforts to combat the situation in next-door Ethiopia/Eritrea. In Khartoum, one could buy amazing foods on the streets and in the cafes - but a new fancy (independent) burger bar had just opened - and the queues were significant… even though it was so expensive, and the food there was AWFUL. Eating meat in civilisations has always been an indication/badge of wealth.

I think that vegans should concentrate on their own locations in the advocacy for change. That is, I think we should push for ‘ ‘alternatives’ in our own regions, and not try to involve ourselves in other areas - something that is beyond our means anyway, as well as being an exercise in futility.

There is a lot of more sustainable eating culture going on around the world in ‘low income countries’ - eg Ethiopia and parts of India - but I’m not an expert. And vegan initiatives and ‘movements’ are also spread around.

The point - for me, and you (?), that is, people on this forum - is to try to help to change the culture within the powerhouses of the global economy, in the countries in which we live.

It is the ‘high income countries’ that consume the greatest number of animals, and the global trade in animals and meat is driven by those same countries.

If the food culture can be changed in the ‘high income countries’ - which include places like China, which is simultaneously investing in 27 storey pig farms and alternative proteins - then there will be a massive knock-on effect globally.

The initiatives around cellular meat and precision fermentation are crucial here (if there is time left). There is a thread on here that puts vegconomist magazine up - I find that mag somewhat inspiring.

So, I think those essays should not fill one with gloom or a feeling that the mountain is too high to climb.