Ukraine

rainforests1 said:
You mean the war that every person on Counterpunch.org thinks the United States government instigated? I think so.
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Well, Counterpunch is not very smart then, huh?

Come on, with the poisoning of the previous Ukrainian leader, the invasions of multiple countries by Russia, it's pretty clear where the guilt lies.
 
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A Russian invasion may be imminent, according to Donald Tusk, the prime minister of Poland. Russia has gathered 20,000 soldiers on the border. It will be under the guise of peace-keeping and in order to create a "humanitarian corridor" to send aid to people in eastern Ukraine.
 
They can call it whatever they want. If we're not going to do anything about it besides sit back and talk about how evil they are, or worse, continue to alienate them through sanctions, they might as well just drop the ruse and move forward with it.
 
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yakherder said:
They can call it whatever they want. If we're not going to do anything about it besides sit back and talk about how evil they are, or worse, continue to alienate them through sanctions, they might as well just drop the ruse and move forward with it.
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As I said before, this situation really gives me a deeper understanding of Neville Chamberlain's dilemma.

Obama, like Chamberlain, is doing a lot to try to deescalate the situation, and it's clear that Putin doesn't want to deescalate anything. Obama shies away from the dangerous game, and I understand that - it's not good pissing off another nuclear power, especially one as destabilized as Russia, but Russia has engaged in the habit of de facto annexation of too many chunks of other countries. There's no good sign that they'll stop anytime soon, especially since foreign conflict seems to be the answer to any domestic problems.
 
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The latest is that Russian trucks carrying supposed emergency aid has crossed the border, heading for the rebel-held cities in eastern Ukraine. The Ukrainian government says this amounts to an invasion, since it wasn't coordinated with them or the Red Cross.
 
das_nut said:
And this is why conspiracy theorists fail.

Really, the writing is on the wall that Russia seriously meddles in the affairs of the near abroad. And yet, the dumb conspiracy theorists try to fit the facts into their narrative.
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And the United States doesn't? How many bases does Russia have worldwide compared to the United States? How much money does Russia spend on their military compared to the United States?
 
rainforests1 said:
And the United States doesn't?
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We stopped annexing our neighbors about 100 years ago. But even if we were invading Canada tomorrow, that doesn't justify Russia's actions. If you only eat meat once a week, it doesn't mean you aren't still supporting animal cruelty.

How many bases does Russia have worldwide compared to the United States?
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Again, it doesn't matter. France has less military bases in the world than the US, but that doesn't mean we should dismiss such acts of French terrorism as the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior.

How much money does Russia spend on their military compared to the United States?
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Once again, it doesn't matter. But you also picked a poor example: Russia spends a higher percentage of their GDP on military expenditures. They are actually the third highest. The US is fourth.
 
Having a large amount of bases worldwide means you're an empire. Empires are likely to start conflicts. Yes, it does matter.
 
So you condemn the Empires for their actions. I'll ask you the same question I'd ask the various complacent international alliances as they sit around condemning half the world but otherwise doing nothing but drop some food here and there.

What makes you think those in control care in the slightest what you think? What action are you going to choose to change their course? Russia is doing what it is doing because its leaders have learned what countless other empires and wannabe empires have figured out now and in the past. Those with resources and leverage make the decisions that direct the course the world takes. Those with self proclaimed morale superiority just sit back and complain about it, hoping those in control will show them mercy.

Sorry if I seem like an ***. I didn't make this world, I'm just trying to respond rationally to what it gives me.
 
yakherder said:
What action are you going to choose to change their course?
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It varies with each case, but in this instance I have no idea what we're trying to gain from the "Asian pivot" and from any involvement with Ukraine. You should stay out completely. Some cases are much more complex than this one though.
 
rainforests1 said:
It varies with each case, but in this instance I have no idea what we're trying to gain from the "Asian pivot" and from any involvement with Ukraine.
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I'd say increasing the price of invading other countries to the point where it's no longer a desirable option for Russia would be a great start. Using Ukraine's weak position to implement more oversight of the democratic process, in a free and open manner, would be good as well. Not only does that strengthen democracy in Ukraine, but it throws Russia a bone and allows them to save some face.
 
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