Ukraine

Yokel

Yokel

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Basically I couldn't give a toss what the Ukrainians do with their country, that is for them to decide. A good many of them no doubt want the free ride that the other Eastern Europeans are getting courtesy of Western taxpayers. At any rate, to be classified, under the we're broke but desperate to try and regain our once mighty status in the world Georgy Porgy has come to the rescue (and yes it is from the Torygraph):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...cash-to-Kiev-as-the-world-waits-on-Putin.html

“We are here ready to help just as soon as there is someone at the end of the telephone,” Mr Osborne said.
He added: “We should be there with a chequebook to help the people of Ukraine rebuild their country.”

I despair. How about rebuilding our country or is that too much to ask for?
 
Well, you have to understand the wider picture of what is going on. It's about which path Ukraine will take forward. Will they continue to be dominated by Russia or will they choose to align themselves with Europe and the West? One path involves authoritatianism and throwing girl-bands in prison camps, the other means representative democracy, which despite its many flaws seems to be what has worked out the most successfully in Western countries at least. And Ukraine is not some bottomless pit into which EU funds will disappear. They were once described as Europe's granary. Not a bad asset in this day and age with increasing fears about future food scarcity and increasing grain prices.
 
One for the misread topics thread this ...

The word was actualy "rebuild".

I read "snap up the next potential Manhattan for a few handfulls of beads" instead.
 
Indian Summer said:
And Ukraine is not some bottomless pit into which EU funds will disappear.
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Hmmm well, it could get expensive.

Ukraine's political crisis has brought the country to the edge of the abyss. And worse yet, the standoff between the government and demonstrators has reduced the economy to a shambles. The latest setback came over the weekend, when the ratings agency Standard and Poor's (S&P) cut Kyiv's credit worthiness to CCC, just a few notches away from being classified as insolvent.

Ukraine's currency, the hryvnia, has lost more than 10 percent of its value against the euro since the beginning of this year. Meanwhile, the country's foreign exchange reserves are melting away rapidly. As a consequence, Ukraine's public debt is soaring because a large portion of the loans taken out were in foreign currencies.
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Read more: Volatile Ukraine teeters on brink of bankruptcy (Deutsche Welle, 24. Feb. 2013)
 
Indian Summer said:
Well, you have to understand the wider picture of what is going on.
Click to expand...
Well let the Germans pay for the wider picture as Germany is one of the few countries in Europe that is financially solvent. Of course Ukraine is a bottomless pit into which EU funds will disappear, just like the rest of the former Soviet Bloc is. Meanwhile our own national infrastructure cannot cope with the high level of immigration that we've experienced over the past decade, not least from the former Soviet Bloc.
 
I've read some commentary suggesting Putin is making a big mistake etc, but I don't feel convinced. Considering the Russian Black Sea fleet is based there, and I don't think they have a lot of other bases near the Mediterranean (except the one in Syria), it could be a problem for them if Ukraine (with Crimea) aligned itself with the West. If there was ever a moment for Putin to act and try to secure this asset, it would be now. Of course, it's a game of high stakes, if there is a military confrontation with western countries, it could prove expensive for the Russians, but that doesn't seem very likely at this point.
 
rainforests1 said:
What do you think he should be doing? The leader of one of the world's largest empires ever created shouldn't be criticizing others.
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Obama should be ratcheting up the price Putin pays for continuing to hold the Crimea. Not only is there a really nasty historical precedent to what happens when a growing power decides to invade another country (hint: It didn't lead to peace in our time), there's also the previous behavior of Putin in Georgia, and the chance for massive destabilization of the region.

Not to mention the 500 lb gorilla in the room. In the early 1990s, the third largest nuclear power in the world was the newly independent Ukraine. Only the US and Russia had more nuclear bombs. The Ukraine peacefully gave up those weapons, in exchange, the US and Russia agreed to respect the boundaries of Ukraine.

That promise has been broken. There are calls for Ukraine to resume its nuclear bomb program. At this point, I can't blame them if they do so. But if the Ukraine successfully proves that becoming a nuclear power will prevent further Russian aggression, odds are that at least one of its neighbors would also think its a good idea. Just like the India/Pakistan/Iran nuclear domino, the Ukraine may kickstart a nuclear arms buildup.
 
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