The Climate Propaganda

[joh7]

I think veganism and vegetarianism are great.

However, the propaganda about the "climate crisis" and carbon dioxide is about power and money. A small carbon footprint is the same as poverty and starvation. The aim of the propaganda is to make people see poverty and starvation as something positive - a solution. Why? Because the world economy will collapse due to too much debt. Governments will make major cuts to benefits and pensions but, of course, want to avoid protests.

There is no climate crisis. Scientists are paid by the state to deliver a "climate crisis," and therefore the fraud continues. Carbon dioxide is necessary for plants, and the level is not high at all. On the contrary, it is dangerously low.

 

[Second Summer]

No.

The climate crisis is sadly very real and we're already seeing plentiful evidence for it, from enormous forest fires, to flooding and melting ice in the Artic, Antarctica and glaciers here in Europe. Just look at all the interesting archeological finds from glaciers in recent years as they're melting!

Also, if you've lived through a few winters in your life as I have, there's no doubt that even in my lifetime the winters have become warmer with less snowfall. And just as an example, the Winter Olympics have come to rely more and more on artificial snow.

But ultimately, it's a question of who you trust: The vast majority of climate scientists who have dedicated decades of their lives to research, or people online without any credentials who spread conspiracy theories?

 

[joh7]

No.

The climate crisis is sadly very real and we're already seeing plentiful evidence for it, from enormous forest fires, to flooding and melting ice in the Artic, Antarctica and glaciers here in Europe. Just look at all the interesting archeological finds from glaciers in recent years as they're melting!

Also, if you've lived through a few winters in your life as I have, there's no doubt that even in my lifetime the winters have become warmer with less snowfall. And just as an example, the Winter Olympics have come to rely more and more on artificial snow.

But ultimately, it's a question of who you trust: The vast majority of climate scientists who have dedicated decades of their lives to research, or people online without any credentials who spread conspiracy theories?

The climate has always changed. That’s nothing unusual. But definitely not because of CO2. The Sun wobbles due to the gravitational pull between the Sun and the planets. Carbon dioxide is food for plants, and the level is not high at all. On the contrary, it is dangerously low.

 

[Second Summer]

The climate has always changed. That’s nothing unusual.

Of course. But not as dramatically quickly as it does now.

But definitely not because of CO2.

Maybe not before. But it seems to be one of the main drivers now.

Carbon dioxide is food for plants

Indeed.

and the level is not high at all. On the contrary, it is dangerously low.

If someone explained to you why the CO2 level is not currently dangerously low, would you change your mind about the climate crisis? Or would you just find some other reason to claim the climate crisis is fake?

 

[beancounter]

Climate change is real, and human activity is a major cause.

Climate change: evidence and causes | Royal Society

Supplementary information for the project 'Climate Change: Evidence and causes'.

royalsociety.org

Evidence - NASA Science

Earth's climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 800,000 years, there have been eight cycles of ice ages and warmer periods, with the end of

science.nasa.gov

But if you're not going to believe scientist, who do you believe? The government? The oil companies?, the talking heads that get paid by oil companies to push fake science?

Exxon Knew about Climate Change Almost 40 Years Ago

A new investigation shows the oil company understood the science before it became a public issue and spent millions to promote misinformation

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[beancounter]

And one question that never get's directly answered.

Specifically what agenda is being pushed? Who benefits from the "deception" and how exactly do they benefit?

 

[VegetableLiker]

The only ones with an agenda are the millionaires trying to tell us climate change is a hoax! As for me, I've been living off the land for almost ten years now, and BOY am I glad I did and I would recommend it to anyone! All vegan diet, all freshly and organically grown, and anywhere I go, I ride my trusty bike!! Less VROOOM! VROOOMM!! and more *ding ding* THANK YOU VERY MUCH. (Let's do it for Mother Nature)

 

[Graeme M]

Specifically what agenda is being pushed? Who benefits from the "deception" and how exactly do they benefit?

I read a very lengthy analysis of the climate "scam" a little while back. The proposition is that it's obvious to wealthy industrialists and the like that fossil fuels will eventually become scarce or too expensive (think "limits to Growth") and in a world economy built on constant growth and exploitation of resources, a loss of fossil fuels (ie cheap energy) would drastically compromise Big Capital. So the way to deal with that is to stimulate an alternative energy economy, hence wind and solar which will require such massive scale that it effectively reinvents capitalism. So, that could be one example of who benefits.

Potentially another might be governments for whom the rising cost of energy as fossil fuels deplete face declining productivity and per capita prosperity. Governments depend on both rising for a safe, healthy society - as societies become less wealthy and energy scarce, instability builds. We are already seeing that as Western prosperity and influence declines.

All of that said, is there a climate crisis? I think yes, though the scale of that may be open to question. Certainly Trump's UN speech highlights the failure of the more exaggerated claims/predictions of many in the past. There can be no doubt though that the science is correct - as GHG levels rise, the climate must warm in response. How much and what that means remains uncertain. After all, any climate regime comes with disasters and disasters are increasingly harmful because of growing populations. Will the world of 20 or 30 years hence be less safe because of climate extremes? I don't know, though on present indications, not so much. But I don't think we should bet the house on that. The scientists are the experts and we should listen to them.

 

[joh7]

And one question that never get's directly answered.

Specifically what agenda is being pushed? Who benefits from the "deception" and how exactly do they benefit?

Governments are soon bankrupt. Banks create debt, and the debts are soon too large. Some want a new system that they can control themselves. Carbon as money. Carbon credits. In reality, it would mean mass surveillance and fascism.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

However, the propaganda about the "climate crisis" and carbon dioxide is about power and money.

The green lifestyle these days is no longer about vegetables and reducing your lifestyle and funny looking hybrid cars.

People that buy solar panels are richer in the long run, vegan burgers and pizzas are everywhere, there are more and more fast and awesome trains to more destinations, and electric cars are now cheaper and better.

Just forget about climate change and just keep an open mind as to which options for you are really cheaper and more convenient.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

The only ones with an agenda are the millionaires trying to tell us climate change is a hoax! As for me, I've been living off the land for almost ten years now, and BOY am I glad I did and I would recommend it to anyone! All vegan diet, all freshly and organically grown, and anywhere I go, I ride my trusty bike!! Less VROOOM! VROOOMM!! and more *ding ding* THANK YOU VERY MUCH. (Let's do it for Mother Nature)

Good for you I rode my bike more or less everywhere for about 2 years and I actually quite enjoyed the exercise and the money savings, however one issue I was having is it wasn't inspiring to anyone else, and it just made me look like an oddball. Since I bought an electric car in 2020 I've had a lot more better conversations.

 

[allindogecoin]

I think veganism and vegetarianism are great.

However, the propaganda about the "climate crisis" and carbon dioxide is about power and money. A small carbon footprint is the same as poverty and starvation. The aim of the propaganda is to make people see poverty and starvation as something positive - a solution. Why? Because the world economy will collapse due to too much debt. Governments will make major cuts to benefits and pensions but, of course, want to avoid protests.

There is no climate crisis. Scientists are paid by the state to deliver a "climate crisis," and therefore the fraud continues. Carbon dioxide is necessary for plants, and the level is not high at all. On the contrary, it is dangerously low.

Check out the Keeling Curve, a good version of which is on the NASA website: Carbon Dioxide - Earth Indicator - NASA Science

The concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere now is very high.

 

[allindogecoin]

Governments are soon bankrupt. Banks create debt, and the debts are soon too large. Some want a new system that they can control themselves. Carbon as money. Carbon credits. In reality, it would mean mass surveillance and fascism.

Renewable energy doesn't necessarily mean surveillance and fascism. For example, if there is a coal power plant and the energy is transferred from the plant to many people's homes, this centralisation allows the government to monitor energy use etc. Compare that to each person using balcony solar to recharge their e-bikes and e-scooters and laptops, which is decentralized and happens without government oversight.

 

[Tom L.]

I have a somewhat different take on this. I'm not denying that there is such a thing as human-caused climate change. Humans have an astonishingly great ability to affect the planet as a whole. Offhand, I can't think of another species that comes close.

My main take on this is that FOSSIL FUELS ARE NON-RENEWABLE. Well, okay- they might renew themselves, but the deposits we've been extracting from the earth were formed millions of years ago. We can learn to do without them now, at our own pace- or face an energy shortage crisis utterly beyond our control later.

But the sun has been shining for billions of years, and is expected to keep doing so for quite some time. Yes, solar energy (as well as wind) is variable, affected greatly by the weather- but we could learn to adapt to this, making special measures to protect those who cannot adjust to seasonal changes.

 

[Lou]

The climate has always changed. That’s nothing unusual. But definitely not because of CO2. The Sun wobbles due to the gravitational pull between the Sun and the planets. Carbon dioxide is food for plants, and the level is not high at all. On the contrary, it is dangerously low.

View attachment 33234

you are looking at it in the wrong scale.
Maybe this will help

A Graphical History of Atmospheric CO2 Levels Over Time

Atmospheric levels of CO2, the most abundant greenhouse gas, have varied widely over the course of the Earth’s 4.54 billion year history.

earth.org

 

[Lou]

Global Temperature Report for 2023 - Berkeley Earth

2023 was the warmest year on Earth since direct observations began, and the first year to exceed 1.5 °C above our 1850-1900 average.

berkeleyearth.org

 

[Graeme M]

I always find these graphs intriguing, because the average temperature is a funny construct. It could be that minimum temperatures in the Arctic have warmed noticeably over time and that'll skew global averages, even if nothing else is going on. So, it's hard to say what the real effect in any given region might be.

For example, our Bureau of Meteorology tells us that Australian average temperatures have risen by nearly 1.5C. Yet on the ground, I honestly don't notice much difference. I *think* we get some more intense rainfall events, but then again - our worst ever floods are still in the past. Below is an interesting graph from our Bureau of the average maximum temperature for the past 110 years in my home town. I don't see much of anything happening overall, though we could say it's warmer on average now than in 1920 and much the same as it was in 1930. Odd, given that the overall Australian average is apparently 1.5C warmer. Does that really mean anything at all? No, other than maybe it isn't automatically true that things are worse everywhere.

Getting back to average global temperature, here's some interesting info.

The current global average: 14.5C unadjusted, 15.0C adjusted.

Here are the average global temperatures for the 1850-1900 pre-industrial reference period, using the five main temperature datasets:

13.791 ± 0.022ºC using air temperature above sea ice — Berkeley Earth.

14.386 ± 0.022ºC using water temperature below sea ice — Berkeley Earth.

13.618ºC — HadCRUT

13.786ºC ± "several tenths of a degree" Celsius ± 0.15ºC — NASA

13.73ºC — NOAA

13.5ºC — EMCWF ERA5