Raw Goat Milk-Raw Foodist's Back Injury Healed

[Sproutskies]

Raw Goat Milk, 20+ year raw foodist claims his back injury was healed

So this one is controversial as I know how consuming dairy is almost always viewed as cruel?

This guy was a vegan/raw foodist for over 20 years and eventually adopted a goat from his friend.

His friend had taught him how to milk the goat and it was something that he eventually did on a regular basis. Described it in a way that he says was not a cruel and that his pet goat was willingly walking up to him to be milked. He then claims that drinking the raw goat milk had healed unsolved back pain that he had during his full time being vegan. My impression was that he was not going out of his way to lie and that he was committed for over 20 years.

Are all forms of dairy cruel? If he was telling the truth could this be viewed as something that was ok to do?

 

[David3]

If a person has chronic pain, I suppose they can try whatever they'd like in order to cure it

However, in order to establish that a cure really works, and that it will work for the general public, you have to have lots of people try it, and compare results with a placebo.

I could post videos of people who claim to live without eating food or any other nourishment. That's not proof.


It should be noted that mammals, including dairy goats, don't consistently produce milk unless they are kept consistently pregnant. What happens to all those goat calves?

From the website of the Midwest Dairy Association:

"All cows produce milk once they deliver a calf. About 10 months after calving, the amount of milk the cow gives naturally decreases substantially and the cow undergoes a “drying off” period. About 12 to 14 months after the birth of her previous calf, a cow will calve again, thus providing milk.

Link: Farm Life FAQ | Midwest Dairy

 

[rogerjolly]

Raw Goat Milk Healed Back Injury

Other headlines possibly destined for the future?:

Peanut Butter Made Me Pregnant

In-growing Toenail Cured by Southern Comfort

Veganism Saved My Marriage

Warts Disappear After Being Rubbed With Beef

Veganism Curing Sciatica?
Oh. Just a minute. I think I may have actually seen that last one recently.

However, in order to establish that a cure really works, and that it will work for the general public, you have to have lots of people try it, and compare results with a placebo. I could post videos of people who claim to live without eating food or any other nourishment. That's not proof.

Absolutely agreed. I have the impression (Is this me falling into the same trap?) that the American psyche is particularly prone to producing, propagating and even accepting nonsense such as this. It would sort of fit in with the many conspiracy theories such as fake moon landings. It would also explain the ridiculously poor take up of covid vaccinations in the Deep South.

Roger.

 

[David3]

People tend to believe personal testimonies more than they believe the studies in peer-reviewed journals. In order for the studies to be taken seriously by the public, it usually requires a charismatic individual to present those findings in a personal way.

Dr. Michael Greger does this - he presents peer-reviewed study findings in an engaging way.

 

[Deleted member 3018]

Goats get bored easily and need the company of others of their kind. If he adopted only one goat, that would have been cruel. And as pointed out by others, to produce milk, the goat has to get impregnated somehow, which can also be cruel. And then there would be the baby goats, God only knows what happened to those if they weren't rescued.

 

[Lou]

Goats get bored easily and need the company of others of their kind.

Not that I'm defending this guy but...
Goats can and will make friends with anyone.
My brother's horse had a goat BFF
And I've seen goats form bonds with dogs, cats, and even humans.

How Do Goats Show Affection? - 3 Scientifically Proven Ways - Farmhouse Guide

Not that goats do best with other goats but in a pinch any other animal will work.

 

[Deleted member 3018]

Not that I'm defending this guy but...
Goats can and will make friends with anyone.
My brother's horse had a goat BFF
And I've seen goats form bonds with dogs, cats, and even humans.

How Do Goats Show Affection? - 3 Scientifically Proven Ways - Farmhouse Guide

Not that goats do best with other goats but in a pinch any other animal will work.

Goats are much more fascinating than what I thought. I'm sorry, I was wrong. Thank you so much for the article and the video!

 

[rogerjolly]

People tend to believe personal testimonies more than they believe the studies in peer-reviewed journals.

Very true. And that is the reason snake oil remedies have been (and perhaps are still) so ubiquitous.

Let me relate a tale once told to me by a farmer in a Yorkshire pub:

“When I was a child my dad gave me a Victorian penny and told me to always carry it with me. It would ward off any nearby elephants and I would never be trampled by one.”
He reached into his pocket and showed me a well-worn large copper coin on which the head of Victoria could just be discerned. He studied it ruefully and then, looking me straight in the eye, said,
“And you know, it really works. I have never once been trampled by an elephant.”

Roger.

 

[Sproutskies]

If a person has chronic pain, I suppose they can try whatever they'd like in order to cure it

However, in order to establish that a cure really works, and that it will work for the general public, you have to have lots of people try it, and compare results with a placebo.

I could post videos of people who claim to live without eating food or any other nourishment. That's not proof.


It should be noted that mammals, including dairy goats, don't consistently produce milk unless they are kept consistently pregnant. What happens to all those goat calves?

From the website of the Midwest Dairy Association:

"All cows produce milk once they deliver a calf. About 10 months after calving, the amount of milk the cow gives naturally decreases substantially and the cow undergoes a “drying off” period. About 12 to 14 months after the birth of her previous calf, a cow will calve again, thus providing milk.

Link: Farm Life FAQ | Midwest Dairy


View attachment 25591

I agree with that to establish for the public you need scientific trials to confirm or deny if there is any validity.

It's quite interesting though that this guy had committed over 2 decades of his life to being a vegan raw foodist and for arguments sake did not initially seek out raw goat milk. Gut instinct says that this guy was not lying at least in how he describes it from his experience.

Raw Goat Milk Healed Back Injury

Other headlines possibly destined for the future?:

Peanut Butter Made Me Pregnant

In-growing Toenail Cured by Southern Comfort

Veganism Saved My Marriage

Warts Disappear After Being Rubbed With Beef

Veganism Curing Sciatica?
Oh. Just a minute. I think I may have actually seen that last one recently.



Absolutely agreed. I have the impression (Is this me falling into the same trap?) that the American psyche is particularly prone to producing, propagating and even accepting nonsense such as this. It would sort of fit in with the many conspiracy theories such as fake moon landings. It would also explain the ridiculously poor take up of covid vaccinations in the Deep South.

Roger.

This is not about providing rock solid proof that this guys claims are valid.

It's just a discussion of someone who was well into the raw foodist vegan movement for over two decades.. wrote books and is somewhat well documented for being a vegan chef/creating a raw foods company + consulting business working with other raw food restaurants. It becomes more interesting when it's not just a rando trying to get attention, views, ... and in this case someone who seems to have committed their life to being a vegan for a good chunk of time.

Talking about the stupidity of America and the conspiracies that are spread over here is a long discussion for another time. If you watch the video in it's entirety and do a search on this guy it would be pretty bogus to compare him to, lets say... some illuminati conspiracy theorist talking about how trump is a deity we should all worship..

Not saying his claims are true or any real way to verify... but at least his body language and energy give off an honest impression combined with the stuff that he has produced for the raw vegan movement. It also does not seem at all like he is trying to sell a product or tell anyone to do what he did in the interview.

That's why this is in the philosophical section to see if people would ever consider whether this would be an ethical situation or not for this guy to have a goat as a pet and use her milk for his own benefit. Where would this land on the spectrum of cruelty?

 

[David3]

I agree with that to establish for the public you need scientific trials to confirm or deny if there is any validity.

It's quite interesting though that this guy had committed over 2 decades of his life to being a vegan raw foodist and for arguments sake did not initially seek out raw goat milk. Gut instinct says that this guy was not lying at least in how he describes it from his experience.

.
We don't know the quality (or lack thereof) of his raw vegan diet.
.

 

[Lou]

I don't know. I frequently experiment on myself. Whether its the quality of sleep, the reduction of dandruff, increasing strength.....
Other people's research does form the basis of my research but I trust my results. As many professionals have said, everyone is different.

 

[silva]

How about the idea that a raw vegan diet was causing his pain to be chronic, and simply adding some other cooked, food groups, may have added those nutrients in the same way goat milk did?
I do not know enough an all raw diet--- other than the nutrients are different from cooked foods
Just wondering why they wouldn't take that into account before using a goat?

 

[David3]

How about the idea that a raw vegan diet was causing his pain to be chronic, and simply adding some other cooked, food groups, may have added those nutrients in the same way goat milk did?
I do not know enough an all raw diet--- other than the nutrients are different from cooked foods
Just wondering why they wouldn't take that into account before using a goat?

.
Exactly. It isn't a rigorous study. If it was a well-designed experiment, they would have done food diaries and nutrient analyses.

It reminds me of the raw vegan on this thread: Botanical fruitarianism . His protein intake was only about 43 grams per day, even though he was consuming about 2650 calories per day. Similar to certain other fruitarians, he also refused to supplement with vitamins B12 and D.
.

 

[silva]

Anyone read the comments on the video

 

[Lou]

Anyone read the comments on the video

I just did. I was surprised that the first 25 or so were so positive. Maybe the negatives are closer to the bottom.

I guess we shouldn't be surprised, tho. I think you tubers love it when vegans go astray.

I actually didn't watch the video. I wasn't that interested but come to think of it. what kind of diseases does raw milk harbor?

 

[Sproutskies]

.
We don't know the quality (or lack thereof) of his raw vegan diet.
.

How about the idea that a raw vegan diet was causing his pain to be chronic, and simply adding some other cooked, food groups, may have added those nutrients in the same way goat milk did?
I do not know enough an all raw diet--- other than the nutrients are different from cooked foods
Just wondering why they wouldn't take that into account before using a goat?

I just did. I was surprised that the first 25 or so were so positive. Maybe the negatives are closer to the bottom.

I guess we shouldn't be surprised, tho. I think you tubers love it when vegans go astray.

I actually didn't watch the video. I wasn't that interested but come to think of it. what kind of diseases does raw milk harbor?

Yeah, missing some obvious nutrient that could have helped him heal in the first place.

A bunch of the comments on how raw milk/raw milk kefir had helped people heal. Many risks like getting salmonella, e coli, .. from unpasteurized milk in general.

FDA.gov | The Dangers of Raw Milk

 

[Emma JC]

also... the power of the mind / placebo is not to be discounted

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[David3]

Goat's milk doesn't seem to have any nutrients that aren't available in a properly-balanced vegan diet: https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/94/2

 

[FredVegrox]

A variety of whole food that is only from plants is really healthy for us to have, as long as we still be sure we are getting vitamin B12, and needed vitamins and minerals in foods some neglect like seaweed. It does not mean there are not other things, which are not from plants, that are healthy. I won't eat mushrooms, which are alleged to be healthy (but then why are there so many poisonous mushrooms? All mushrooms have some mycotoxins, too), I never liked mushrooms and never want them. Honey has a reputation for being healthy (but you are not supposed to give any of it to babies). I keep a general rule now to not use anything from any animals anymore, there are good reasons for just having the whole food from actual plants, besides the healthieness of that. Animals' lives matter, and even if there are exceptions among invertebrate animals having experiences we cannot be totally sure of that. Edible plants and parts from plants are just right for food for us.