Do you mean a specific kind of anti-LGBT rhetoric?
If not, it sounds like you're saying it's impossible to voice opposition against LGBT rights without contributing to violence against LGBT people.
I think that, any time that someone says something that marginalizes a group or makes them appear "other" and especially "lesser", it potentially contributes to violence toward that group.
Of course not. It would, however, make large scale (and small scale) killings more difficult/riskier. Yes, we know that it's possible to kill large numbers with explosives, fire, etc. But there's a reason so many Americans choose guns, over and over and over again. Endlessly.
Spang
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That's exactly what I'm saying. This goes for any marginalized group. The rise in Islamophobia due to the shooter's ethnicity will contribute to more violence against Muslims, for example.
Spang
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Gun control laws, like so many laws, would be racist in its implementation, and give police more power to brutalize people of color.
An openly gay British journalist called it the worst mass killing of LGBT people in the west since the Holocaust.
On Sky News last night, I realised how far some will go to ignore homophobia | Owen Jones | Opinion | The Guardian
Disgusted Owen Jones walks out of Sky News over bid to distance Orlando shooting from gay hate crime - Mirror Online
On Sky News last night, I realised how far some will go to ignore homophobia | Owen Jones | Opinion | The Guardian
Disgusted Owen Jones walks out of Sky News over bid to distance Orlando shooting from gay hate crime - Mirror Online
I noticed almost immediately that some news outlets here in the U.S . (and many politicians) did not bother to mention that the mass murder targeted a gay nightclub.
I don't think they would give police more power to brutalize people of color.
The answer to that problem is to work on fixing the system, not refrain from enacting laws.
FortyTwo
Custom Title
Believe me, I know your motivations are 100% positive and in the right. I am not trying to suggest that you're reacting the "wrong" way or that you're not allowed to feel horrible about this. Everyone should feel horrible about this.
I'm just saying that the idea of depoliticizing this event is, frankly, offensive, because everything about this is political, and everything about fixing this is political. I wish human grief was never political, but unfortunately that's the world we live in.
ETA: For the record - I'm not saying anyone in mourning is obligated to stop mourning and start fighting with activism right away or something. Especially not the people close to the victims. You are a kind person, I understand you want to give people time to grieve. I'm not trying to take that time away - merely trying to avoid losing sight of what this crime was about, and why. A lot of major news outlets are trying to make this about the general upset of humanity. To me that is depoliticizing it, taking it away from its context. This was not a generalized crime, this was a mass shooting of LGBTQ people by a homophobic individual. I don't want anyone to forget about that, regardless of their intentions.
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FortyTwo
Custom Title
The issue of racist (and other discriminatory) police violence is a separate one from gun control. As a society I'm figuring we pretty much have to agree the police should be armed; this conflict at Pulse, for instance, was only stopped when it was because the police were able to break in and actually kill the shooter.
To prevent racist violence in the police force, we need to correct the root cause, which is racism. Spang, you seem to understand that pretty well - I completely agree that the reason this crime was committed was homophobic rhetoric becoming homophobic violence. In the case of racist police shootings, racist rhetoric in the police force becomes racist violence against civilians. Civilians having guns does nothing to help them fight back against police corruption. The vast majority of police violence happens against civilians who are unarmed anyway. I agree with you in principle, but it's a little bit frustrating that you don't see how gun control would help prevent shootings like this, and instead subscribe to the idea that gun control itself would be assisting racist police violence, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I mean... I suppose if you really want to dig into the history of it, it does. Gun control rhetoric was actually created originally by conservatives as a way of shutting down the Black Panthers and similar groups, whose open carry was a form of self-defense against corrupt police. A sort of way to say, we've got guns too, assholes.
But the political climate today is very different. The vast majority of open carry is done not out of protest, but out of conformity, and allows for corrupt vigilante "justice" like in the case of Trayvon Martin. At this point, having guns is just dangerous.
To prevent racist violence in the police force, we need to correct the root cause, which is racism. Spang, you seem to understand that pretty well - I completely agree that the reason this crime was committed was homophobic rhetoric becoming homophobic violence. In the case of racist police shootings, racist rhetoric in the police force becomes racist violence against civilians. Civilians having guns does nothing to help them fight back against police corruption. The vast majority of police violence happens against civilians who are unarmed anyway. I agree with you in principle, but it's a little bit frustrating that you don't see how gun control would help prevent shootings like this, and instead subscribe to the idea that gun control itself would be assisting racist police violence, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I mean... I suppose if you really want to dig into the history of it, it does. Gun control rhetoric was actually created originally by conservatives as a way of shutting down the Black Panthers and similar groups, whose open carry was a form of self-defense against corrupt police. A sort of way to say, we've got guns too, assholes.
But the political climate today is very different. The vast majority of open carry is done not out of protest, but out of conformity, and allows for corrupt vigilante "justice" like in the case of Trayvon Martin. At this point, having guns is just dangerous.
Please look at virtually every other civilized country that does have gun control laws in place.
I hope you are not suggesting that people of colour should arm themselves to fight the police.
Please look back at the situation of Native Americans who tried to pick up arms, that did not work out so well, either....
Spang
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I'm not saying that civilians should have guns to defend themselves against law enforcement. I'm saying gun control laws will disproportionately affect people of color.
I'll begin a new thread to continue this discussion.
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Orlando shooting: world pays tribute to victims with vigils and rainbow flags | US news | The Guardian
Britain's LGBT communities hold vigils for Orlando shooting victims - BBC News
At least something this horrible can have a positive effect as so many people showed solidarity in coming together in peace and hope.
Britain's LGBT communities hold vigils for Orlando shooting victims - BBC News
At least something this horrible can have a positive effect as so many people showed solidarity in coming together in peace and hope.
ledboots
Peace
JetBlue Offers Flights to Families of Orlando Victims
Like many of you, we continue to watch reports of the Orlando nightclub shooting with great sadness," JetBlue's site read. "Our thoughts are with the victims and their loved ones."
UpdatedOrlando Gunman Had Strong Indications of Radicalization: FBI
JetBlue said it would provide free seats on available flights to and from Orlando for immediate family members and domestic partners of victims killed or injured in the terror attack that killed 49 and hurt 53.
Like many of you, we continue to watch reports of the Orlando nightclub shooting with great sadness," JetBlue's site read. "Our thoughts are with the victims and their loved ones."
UpdatedOrlando Gunman Had Strong Indications of Radicalization: FBI
JetBlue said it would provide free seats on available flights to and from Orlando for immediate family members and domestic partners of victims killed or injured in the terror attack that killed 49 and hurt 53.
ledboots
Peace
ledboots
Peace
"Go fund me, crowdfunding campaign to support the Orlando Pulse shooting victims and their families has pulled in more than $2.4 million.
Equality Florida, the largest LGBT rights group in the state, posted the GoFundMe fundraiser shortly after a gunman killed 49 people and injured dozens more at a gay club in the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history Sunday morning. An earlier death toll of 50, released by officials, had included the gunman.
By Monday evening, more than 56,000 people had made contributions."
GoFundMe campaign for Orlando shooting victims hits $2.4 million
Equality Florida, the largest LGBT rights group in the state, posted the GoFundMe fundraiser shortly after a gunman killed 49 people and injured dozens more at a gay club in the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history Sunday morning. An earlier death toll of 50, released by officials, had included the gunman.
By Monday evening, more than 56,000 people had made contributions."
GoFundMe campaign for Orlando shooting victims hits $2.4 million
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
Yes, and others are Christian, etc.
There are. and probably always will be, nasty scum suckers who will fix on some ideology to give themselves a reason to do what they want to do - namely inflict suffering on other human beings.
