Why cant non vegans who claim to 'care and love' animals and are FULLY against any animal cruelty (most people I know are like this) just admit they actually really dont give a xxxx about animals, at all. Just admit it, it's totally ok. If I ever were to quit being a vegan (I've been one 5 years now) i would just fully admit i couldnt care a less about all animals.
Non vegans who 'care'&'love' Animals
- Thread starter mrvegan
- Start date
Because they actually do.
It's the disconnect that enables people (including most of us in an earlier life) to carry on being part of the problem.
A human analogy is that most of us love our family and friends, but feel almost nothing for people in "faraway" countries who might be being persecuted, tortured or killed. The further away something is happening, either by distance, or by processes, the less we think about them.
And then there is the social engineering that the industries use to full effect. We are told daily that dairy is healthy. We are advertised local beef, pork, lamb etc and there is always a happy cow or sheep in the picture or video.
Did you suddenly start loving animals once you stopped eating them? Or as I suspect, love them before AND after.
Going vegan didn't change my personality, my desires, my wants, my loves. It just opened my eyes to that disconnect in my moral compass.
It was the first thing my sister said when I told her we were now vegan... "I didn't think you cared that much about animals" - huh? say what? I've always loved animals and she knows that very well.
Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
Lou
Forum Legend
I do know that what Gorph said is the case. In college we called it cognitive dissonance.
And even tho I know and understand it, it still sometimes blows my mind.
like when you see some Animal Rescue guy stopping to eat a hot dog.
Or at a fund raiser for the Humane society serving chicken. (don' t really know if that happens - but you get the idea)
Why aren't all veterinarians vegan?
And even tho I know and understand it, it still sometimes blows my mind.
like when you see some Animal Rescue guy stopping to eat a hot dog.
Or at a fund raiser for the Humane society serving chicken. (don' t really know if that happens - but you get the idea)
Why aren't all veterinarians vegan?
Why aren't all veterinarians vegan?
Now THIS has always perplexed me! big time
Now THIS has always perplexed me! big time
Even knowing what animals go through, and that we don't need to eat them, or use them, for most people that just isn't on their minds enough to change.
I think of it this way--people do what's there. If you look back say, 100 years, food norms were vastly different. Even when I was a kid (not 100 years ago!) I remember when fast food brought out the quarter pounder. My grandmother was in shock that anyone would eat that much meat at one time! There was no high fructose corn syrup, water wasn't bottled, 16 oz bottles of pop we used bottle stoppers because it was more than one serving. Food norms changed not because of peoples demands, but because of what we were given.
I don't like it, but I fully believe the change to plant based diets will be from big companies profits and not on anyones ethics
I get it, there is so much else that stresses people. What I don't understand is how the ones who have the means & the money that don't go vegan. the ones who get groceries delivered without obsessing over price or how they're going to prepare it.
I think of it this way--people do what's there. If you look back say, 100 years, food norms were vastly different. Even when I was a kid (not 100 years ago!) I remember when fast food brought out the quarter pounder. My grandmother was in shock that anyone would eat that much meat at one time! There was no high fructose corn syrup, water wasn't bottled, 16 oz bottles of pop we used bottle stoppers because it was more than one serving. Food norms changed not because of peoples demands, but because of what we were given.
I don't like it, but I fully believe the change to plant based diets will be from big companies profits and not on anyones ethics
I get it, there is so much else that stresses people. What I don't understand is how the ones who have the means & the money that don't go vegan. the ones who get groceries delivered without obsessing over price or how they're going to prepare it.
Last edited:
It has never perplexed me.
I simply look at how I viewed things "before".
i.e. Killing an animal if for food = okay.
Killing an animal unnecessarily = not okay.
Even before I stopped eating meat, I was against fur, animal testing, especially for cosmetics, etc.
But I was a keen fisherman (Only food fishing, never catch and release (as that was cruel!) )
I was against Halal, as I thought the animal should at least be stunned first.
I was against factory farming, although of course that thought was never strong enough to stop me frequenting the local steak-house.
I was against sport/trophy hunting, and even paid a monthly fee to be a member of "League against cruel sports". Back in the day the Posh twats in the UK were still chasing foxes with dogs as a fun day out. They still of course breed pheasants and suchlike to shoot at with their p3n1s extensions.
I viewed animals as necessary for our diet. And if that had been true, then consuming them would be morally okay.
Many (most probably) people still believe that.
And the fact that we essentially need to supplement in order to get a balanced diet lends weight to the argument (ignoring of course that the lack of bacteria in most animal feed means they themselves are supplemented and thus the people who eat them are simply eating second hand supplements anyway.
These days I understand.
Although I have removed my "vegan" banner now.
Mainly because I regard sensible dog breeding as okay (and their use as companions or service dogs). I think it could be moral to eat eggs if certain practices were outlawed. Same for wool. Whilst I don't buy it, it could be made into an ethically sound practice.
And as far as I can see from all the evidence, eating bi-valves like mussels and oysters is no worse than eating plants. And the farming of such has virtually zero casualties compared to farming wheat or corn.
I am not
Most of those people eat meat. Some are in fact in the farming industry.
Again, they go by the "If it is for food, it isn't cruelty".
Crazy for sure given the facts. But it is what it is.
I'm not sure what the US equivalent is, but in the UK; there is the RSPCA. (Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals).
Most of those people eat meat. Some are in fact in the farming industry.
Again, they go by the "If it is for food, it isn't cruelty".
Crazy for sure given the facts. But it is what it is.
100 % disagree.
When I was younger I wanted to be a Vet. Not for the money, but because I loved animals, and I am fairly confident most who do feel the same. For the rest, read my above reply.
(Sadly I did not get good enough grades... It's harder to get to be a vet than a doctor).
(and of course, when I was that age, I ate meat, drank milk and wore leather shoes)
Last edited:
Lou
Forum Legend
Probably shouldn't put all vets in the same basket anyway.
I remember reading an article about how some vet students revolted and improved animal welfare at their school.
some big animal vets work in the places like cattle yards.
but I think for the most part the vegan carnists must have super cognitive dissonance
I remember reading an article about how some vet students revolted and improved animal welfare at their school.
some big animal vets work in the places like cattle yards.
but I think for the most part the vegan carnists must have super cognitive dissonance
Lou
Forum Legend
oh. also sort of interesting.
The US Humane Society, the ASPCA, and PETA sometimes get on different sides of an issue. As you can imagine there are more Vegans in Peta, they are more into Abolition than Welfare. Most recently was that PETA didn't support prop 12.
The US Humane Society, the ASPCA, and PETA sometimes get on different sides of an issue. As you can imagine there are more Vegans in Peta, they are more into Abolition than Welfare. Most recently was that PETA didn't support prop 12.
I first read it as vegetarians not vegan instead of veterinarians!
That does strike me as very very odd, but then again, there are doctors who are racist.
I feel most vets are NOT in it for the money. So many will do work free for homeless hurt animals, and volunteer to help them
Edited
That does strike me as very very odd, but then again, there are doctors who are racist.
I feel most vets are NOT in it for the money. So many will do work free for homeless hurt animals, and volunteer to help them
Edited
Last edited:
Brian W
Conscientious Christian
Lou
Forum Legend
A few years back I read an article about a small group of veterinary students had protested and eventually changed some of their schools barbaric practices. I remember in one part they discussed a student would be given a dog and then a leg would be broken and they would learn how to fix it. Then the would so something else to the animal till it was all used up and then they would euthanize it.
I couldn't find that article but I found this one which is somewhat relevant to our discussion but current and very interesting.
I couldn't find that article but I found this one which is somewhat relevant to our discussion but current and very interesting.
I think the question is really about aligning your actions with your ethics. Ethics isn't only about animals, and it's not only about our more direct relationship with animals like we consider when determining whether a product is vegan. I think most of us fall short, one way or another.
For example, we know that climate change is going to be catastrophic for hundreds of millions of people (possibly more), as well as for many more animals. It's going to affect coming generations for hundreds of years. And yet our energy consumption, purchasing and other choices don't reflect this knowledge.
We know that pollution and habitat loss is catastrophic for entire species as well as for individual animals. And yet our purchasing and other choices don't always reflect this.
There is also the question of slave labour, sweat shops, products from illegal settlements on occupied lands, products where the profit will benefit oppressive governments, and so forth.
Becoming vegan is an important step towards alignment of our lifestyle with acceptable ethical standards. But it's only one step, it doesn't have to be the first one, and there are other steps we could take.
About 30 years ago there was a 60 Minutes investigation of animal shelters selling surrendered dogs and cats to veterinary schools for teaching purposes. The vet students would learn how to do surgeries on dogs and cats, and then they would be euthenized. The veterinary students said that this was OK because these animals weren't people's pets. When the journalist pointed out that they had been pets, the veterinarian said that that they only needed to care about an animal that was a pet. And that when they were surrendered they ceased to be pets and just became a commodity.
I remember that news story about a young veterinarian, who had been going out and shooting stray cats with a bow and arrow. There was a huge uproar when she posted a smiling trophy picture of her holding a dead cat that she shot with an arrow.
deadknight
Forum Devotee
That's true, this is how vet students get work experience.
I read vet universities would use dogs who were not quite well socialized or attached to humans so that it would be less of a psychological burden to euthanize them (since, of course, students need to learn how to euthanize animals "properly").
The story about this young veterinarian, well... don't really know what I should think. Why did she do so? In aim to give mercy to stray cats who were sick and starving?
However, the thought of veterinarians who eat their own patients sounds really strange to me too.
I do know "livestock" animals must be examined by a vet regularly. Dead bodies are sold to the industry or supermarkets with the approval of a vet who guarantees those dead bodies to be free from infections and the like.
And on certain places, it's a vet who decides if "spent" egg-laying hens are in good health to be able to tolerate being transported to the slaughterhouse, or gassing them locally is more "humane".
I would rather not mention any tasteless comparisons, but these facts made me really upset. There's no better way to express one's disagreement than being vegan for a lifetime.
deadknight
Forum Devotee
This is the very question I have in my mind: did somebody find making AI compose vegan-themed poems and copy/pasting them here on the forum amusing? Or is this a bot account?
