US Meet Mr. Money Mustache, who retired at 30.

[nog]

I don't really understand the problem people have with this person or family.

They've set themselves up in a much better position than probably the majority of the people in the US (and probably the world). It sounds like no debt (plus they own a house and rental), rental income of about $25K (USD) (that they don't seem to spend in a year), plus $800K in investments which if they took dividends and returns could boost their yearly $25K by 50% (if I understood correctly), and on top of that they're not working.

The rental situation might not be very secure (although to really know, I'd have to know more about the location and rental situation of the area they own the rental), however a job isn't very secure either.

I guess if that all went 'south' then they'd have to go back to work. Big deal, that's what the majority of other people currently do.

The paradigm of working your entire life or working till a retirement (say in the 60s or 70s) isn't for everyone. I, for one, am looking to stop working earlier in my life and am on track with that goal.

 

[mlp]

I gather that the $25,000 comes from a combination of rent and investment return.

I have to correct this - from reading his blog, I gather the $25,000 is purely from renting out the one house.

Also, from reading his blog, I see that he's anticipating better health insurance coverage being available under the new healthcare law, which he expects will cost more, but the cost of which he anticipates will be subsidized (by the public) because of his lower earnings as a retired person:

Plans like mine with very high deductibles will phase out (although existing plans will be grandfathered in), meaning you will have to get more coverage and pay more for it. Balancing that out, however, are subsidies that will offset most or all of the extra cost for Mustachian-level early retirees, so the end result could be getting better coverage at similar cost.

His house isn't what I think of when I hear "fixer-upper"; the fixing up consisted of painting and, over time, replacing carpeting with new flooring. It's a very nice house: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/house-tour-mr-money-mustache_n_2761917.html

His wife didn't quit work until last fall: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/11/01/our-new-237-per-month-health-insurance-plan/

 

[das_nut]

My father lived for years on a 500$ government check (disabled veteran, couldn't work) per month while housing a family of 6 in his house, a family who appeared to get by on less. But those are poor people, so of course there is no option, but these people, though they live frugally, are rich. They have options, but they are living like poor people. Not really poor people, of course. Well off poor people, which I think is a good aim.

I do wonder if that is why he gets a lot of criticism and skepticism. $25k/year may not seem like a lot to live on for a family of three to many people. So maybe they don't understand how much money that actually is, and how people (even families) survive with a lot less.

 

[Wolfie]

I'd be happy with a fraction of what this guy has.

 

[mlp]

I'm not quite sure why or how a look at what someone who is handing out financial advice to the public at large says and does automatically translates as "disliking" or "having a problem" with him, much less with his family.

Suze Orman has been handing out the same basic advice for a long time. It's sound advice, as far as it goes.

MMM is the flavor of the month. His hook is that he supposedly retired at thirty, and that others can do the same. It's an attractive concept, and results in many, many clicks on his website, which translates into additional income for him. The reality is that he and his wife didn't retire at thirty; in fact, he's still not retired.

This piece describes part of what I find problematic with all personal finance gurus: http://prospect.org/article/suze-ormans-advice-dangeroushttp://prospect.org/article/suze-ormans-advice-dangerous

Again, the advice about living frugally is really excellent advice. But I hope that people also realize that MMM continues to earn a substantial middle class income from his ongoing work, which puts him in a very nice financial position; the idea that he is retired and relying on $25,000 in rental income, as so many people seem to believe, is misleading.

 

[Kitties]

I too can state I wish I had been much better with my money in the past. I'm lucky to have no debt.

Health care in the U.S. remains a constant problem for people. Even for myself, who has coverage for work. Some day I won't have it.

I also think we have a major problem in this country with spending. I often watch House Hunters on HGTV. Yesterday they had a Where Are They Now episode. I had to stop watching it. People tear out perfectly usable kitchens and baths crying "OUTDATED!" There is certainly something to say for more simple living and being happy with what one has.

I don't know if these shows fuel people's stupidity thinking they must have granite and stainless steel appliances. I'll bet most of that replaced stuff ends up in a land fill when it was perfectly usable.

 

[das_nut]

This piece describes part of what I find problematic with all personal finance gurus: http://prospect.org/article/suze-ormans-advice-dangerous

That article conflates Suze Orman (who I don't entirely agree with, but seems to be sound enough) with Robert Kiyosaki, who many call a fraud. It's like mentioning a noted vegan nutritionist and a breatharian nutritionist in the same article - just by association, you cast doubt on vegan nutrition.

Then the article wants to point out that being fiscally conservative in your own life won't protect you from everything. Again, to use a vegan nutrition analogy, that's like calling people who advocate for veganism frauds for arguing that a nutritionally-sound vegan diet will give you a healthy, long-living body, since the nutritionists are ignoring accident and disease.

I think there's a few issues that article is confusing: the first being discrimination in regards to income, the second being poverty, and the third being personal responsibility.

Poverty and discrimination are its own problems. By definition, the poor have not enough to survive on - no matter how much they scrimp and save, they aren't getting ahead. Discrimination is not solved by building up your own savings - no matter what, your appearance and even your name affects your likelihood to be hired and for what types of jobs. This is unequal. This is unfair. And we'll only solve this through social changes. People should be judged based on their abilities, and the poor need both a hand-out and a hand-up.

But personal responsibility when it comes to financial matters can help yourself. It builds up reserves. It teaches you to do more with less. That provides more flexibility when it comes to being able to control your life. And those resources allow you to weather minor disasters much more effectively. It prevents you from being poorer.

Again, the advice about living frugally is really excellent advice. But I hope that people also realize that MMM continues to earn a substantial middle class income from his ongoing work, which puts him in a very nice financial position; the idea that he is retired and relying on $25,000 in rental income, as so many people seem to believe, is misleading.

According to his blog, he lives on $25k/year. He claims to be financially independent at this point - where he doesn't have to work. He actually talks about the Internet retirement police.

 

[ledboots]

I too can state I wish I had been much better with my money in the past. I'm lucky to have no debt.

Health care in the U.S. remains a constant problem for people. Even for myself, who has coverage for work. Some day I won't have it.

I also think we have a major problem in this country with spending. I often watch House Hunters on HGTV. Yesterday they had a Where Are They Now episode. I had to stop watching it. People tear out perfectly usable kitchens and baths crying "OUTDATED!" There is certainly something to say for more simple living and being happy with what one has.

I don't know if these shows fuel people's stupidity thinking they must have granite and stainless steel appliances. I'll bet most of that replaced stuff ends up in a land fill when it was perfectly usable.

The delivery guys usually take the "old" appliances with them, and they often sell them to used appliance stores.

I bought a refrigerator, stove and oven, dishwasher, and washer dryer from a used appliance place, and they are all great and were cheap! This place buys them from local timeshares where they have to replace appliances every three to five years. Love finding bargains and saving waste!

 

[mlp]

He actually talks about the Internet retirement police.

I know he does - it's part of his schtick.

The point is, he either retired at age thirty (the meme on which he has built his internet business), or he didn't. When someone builds his entire persona around something that's untrue, one would think that the rational among us would start taking a little more critical look at his other claims.

What I have found interesting, having now done a little reading about him and other personal finance gurus, is the extent to which they each have cult like followers, people who are very invested emotionally in their particular hero. It seems to be an underlying theme in the human psyche, and certainly not limited to the religious or the fans of the likes of Lady Gaga and other pop personalities.

 

[das_nut]

I know he does - it's part of his schtick.

The point is, he either retired at age thirty (the meme on which he has built his internet business), or he didn't. When someone builds his entire persona around something that's untrue, one would think that the rational among us would start taking a little more critical look at his other claims.

I suppose it depends on what one considers to be retirement. If going on cruises, always eating out, and never doing a thing that generates income counts as retirement, by that definition, he fails.

But I'd rather not have that sort of retirement (how boring!). If I can, I'd probably work after retirement, even if its in jobs I'd rather not do now due to the poor income. Or I may volunteer. Either way, I wouldn't consider myself less retired. I define retirement as not having to work. Someone I know talks about how, after he retires, he was thinking about becoming a bag boy at a grocery store - just for something to do and the opportunity to meet people. I wouldn't consider him any less retired because of that.

The MMM blog also mentions that before the whole Chase fiasco, the blog was up to $500/mo in ad revenue, which isn't really a successful business. Making money on the Internet isn't easy, especially if it's a hobby.

 

[das_nut]

The delivery guys usually take the "old" appliances with them, and they often sell them to used appliance stores.

I bought a refrigerator, stove and oven, dishwasher, and washer dryer from a used appliance place, and they are all great and were cheap! This place buys them from local timeshares where they have to replace appliances every three to five years. Love finding bargains and saving waste!

I once picked up a washer and dryer for something like $50 for the combo a few years ago since I had moved into a place with the hookups but without a w/d combo.

It worked amazingly well. I think after a year one of the shock absorbers (?) worked loose on the washer, but it took less than 10 minutes to repair. When I had to move, quite a long distance, I ended up "donating" the w/d to my landlord - who was kind enough to forgive an ink stain on the carpeting in return. So it worked for me (I saved time & money on laundry and didn't have to lose a damage deposit) and it worked for my landlord (who owned his own cleaning company and could fix the stain, but now has a duplex with a w/d to rent).

Here's another story. About 10 years ago, I was living in an area where there was a twice-a-year garbage day. A neighbor had thrown out a broken lazy-boy style recliner. I looked at it and realized it was missing one bolt. The recliner was in otherwise perfect condition. Pocket change paid for the bolt, and I used the recliner for as long as I lived there - then put it on the curb when I moved with a "free" sign - it was gone within hours.

I like reducing and reusing, and hate waste. My household probably generates about two small bags of trash a week (with half of that being cat litter). I try to donate instead of throw out items that I no longer have use for. I repair what is broken if I can. And things that are broken that others can repair, we give away free on Craigslist or another site.

 

[mlp]

The MMM blog also mentions that before the whole Chase fiasco, the blog was up to $500/mo in ad revenue, which isn't really a successful business. Making money on the Internet isn't easy, especially if it's a hobby.

It's not just ad revenue - he also has an arrangement where he gets a kind of kickback when anyone someone follows a link and buys a product.

He has also said that he gets $2,000 per month from his blog. (Third parties have said that, based on their own experience, he would be pulling in considerably more, based on the number of clicks and his other arrangements.)

But that's why I wouldn't take what he says on face value - he says so many conflicting things, on very basic matters.

 

[das_nut]

It's not just ad revenue - he also has an arrangement where he gets a kind of kickback when anyone someone follows a link and buys a product.

Anyone can do that, y'know. I could put a link to the Veganomicon right now on VV, and get a small kickback if anyone buys it.

He has also said that he gets $2,000 per month from his blog. (Third parties have said that, based on their own experience, he would be pulling in considerably more, based on the number of clicks and his other arrangements.)

Where does he say that? I found: "Those of us who have been reading for a while know it has been a little crazy since the beginning. I just started typing some **** into the computer in April 2011, and the Spirits of the Internet decided on their own that the blog would become unusually big. I posted a little milestone article after the first million page views, and another after the second million. At that point, I noted that the little advertising boxes on the side of this blog were earning a respectable $500 per month, and that I thought it might eventually grow to $2000, enough to cover the entire Money Mustache family’s living expenses, despite the fact that they are already covered in other ways."

But that's why I wouldn't take what he says on face value - he says so many conflicting things, on very basic matters.

I'm not seeing where there are conflicting things he's saying. Could you point it out, with links?

 

[mlp]

I came across it when I was doing a little reading about him and some others. It was kind of thrown in one of his longer entries. Frankly, I can't be bothered to go back to find it - he and his fandom aren't that important to me. I don't think his inconsistencies about how much he earns from his blog and other activities is going to make any difference to you anyway, since as far as you're concerned, he was being completely honest and straightforward about him and his wife retiring at age thirty.

 

[das_nut]

I came across it when I was doing a little reading about him and some others. It was kind of thrown in one of his longer entries. Frankly, I can't be bothered to go back to find it - he and his fandom aren't that important to me. I don't think his inconsistencies about how much he earns from his blog and other activities is going to make any difference to you anyway, since as far as you're concerned, he was being completely honest and straightforward about him and his wife retiring at age thirty.

I tried googling for it, and I couldn't find it. Are you sure you aren't misremembering something?

 

[LuvOurMother]

I like him! Helping to change how the typical American family lives is wonderful. I already practice much of his philosophies, especially with cars, food and vacations. Investments are ,y next step, although with my Pyrex collection and mid century furniture collection I am already dabbling in small investments. Hope more people adopt this lifestyle

 

[Kitties]

The delivery guys usually take the "old" appliances with them, and they often sell them to used appliance stores.

I bought a refrigerator, stove and oven, dishwasher, and washer dryer from a used appliance place, and they are all great and were cheap! This place buys them from local timeshares where they have to replace appliances every three to five years. Love finding bargains and saving waste!

Those sound like great deals! I know my apartment is about 20 years old and I'm sure the stove and dishwasher are original. So getting appliances that are only that old used saves a lot of money.

I wonder about the cabinets, counters etc that are replaced when people seem to HAVE to remodel.

 

[Forster]

Those sound like great deals! I know my apartment is about 20 years old and I'm sure the stove and dishwasher are original. So getting appliances that are only that old used saves a lot of money.

I wonder about the cabinets, counters etc that are replaced when people seem to HAVE to remodel.

More often than not they're thrown out. My counter tops completely sucked Formica with a Formica backsplash , however I loved my old cabinets so I refinished them.

Here's an old original advertisement picture of them, I swear to god my oven and cook top were the same brownish color, lol.

http://www.cardcow.com/17566/scheirich-cabinets-make-yours-dream-kitchen-too-louisville-advertising/

 

[Forster]

As far as Mr. Money Mustache, I think it's pretty unrealistic for the vast majority of people to "retire" at age 30, no matter how frugal they are. I'm all on board with the frugality message I just don't think it's enough to do what he's claiming.

 

[das_nut]

As far as Mr. Money Mustache, I think it's pretty unrealistic for the vast majority of people to "retire" at age 30, no matter how frugal they are. I'm all on board with the frugality message I just don't think it's enough to do what he's claiming.

I think he's lucked out in many ways. But I do think a lot of people complain about money, yet don't seem to want to live frugally.

Retiring at 30 is unrealistic for most of us. But that doesn't mean that we tend not to have an unhealthy relationship with fiscal responsibility.