Indeed. This T-shirt cropped up a year or 2 ago in my feed, and seemed to fit the flow of posts.
And I too like a drop of wine sometimes, maybe even a nip or 2 of malt whisky or even whiskey if it's from your neck of the woods...
Let's Make Veganism Less Strict
- Thread starter Jamie in Chile
- Start date
And I too like a drop of wine sometimes, maybe even a nip or 2 of malt whisky or even whiskey if it's from your neck of the woods...
Veganism may seem clear but I'm of the opinion that some aspects are up to interpretation and priorities. For instance, a vegan still wears their 10-year old leather shoes that they bought before turning vegan because for them it's not very reasonable or eco to just throw them away.
Or a vegan takes non-vegan medicine because there are no alternatives or they are just too expensive. Healthy vegan is better than ill one. Are those persons vegan? Some say yes, others wouldn't do the same.
So I agree that there are some very basic foundations for veganism but as a philosophical idea it's sometimes complicated when it comes to details. As I mentioned earlier, if I can't find a vegan detergent, I'll choose regular one. Plus we gain knowledge with age so we may not be aware of every single issue and learn it later. It's doing as much as we can to reduce cruelty, that's how I understand it and that's one of the most popular definitions.
And I hope one day everything will be fully vegan so we don't need to deal with such absurds as milk powder in non-dairy products...
Hey there @Natnik98
I don’t disagree with any of what you said…
What bothers me is the idea that Veganism should or could be made “less strict” - No, if it was - it Wouldn’t be Veganism!
One day Hopefully the World will be Vegan - unfortunately I think that it is in a future that I won’t see…
Lou
Forum Legend
I'm not sure. I think I agree with everyone.
IMHO, we don't have to make it less strict.I'm using the Vegan Society's definition as a "rule book". It includes words like practical, possible and strive. And the meaning of those words depends on the situation and on the individual. So what one person might consider a hard and fast rule another might just see it as a goal.
I know IRL a few people who I call Fussy Vegans. Maybe some of you would call them strict vegans. What I see is Ok, they see as bad. I don't have any problems with minuscule amounts of animal ingredients. They see it as a slippery slope. I don't have any issues with food contamination, they see it as "to be avoided at all costs".
My personal acid test is this: Does it affect animals in a signifiant negative way.?
IMHO, we don't have to make it less strict.I'm using the Vegan Society's definition as a "rule book". It includes words like practical, possible and strive. And the meaning of those words depends on the situation and on the individual. So what one person might consider a hard and fast rule another might just see it as a goal.
I know IRL a few people who I call Fussy Vegans. Maybe some of you would call them strict vegans. What I see is Ok, they see as bad. I don't have any problems with minuscule amounts of animal ingredients. They see it as a slippery slope. I don't have any issues with food contamination, they see it as "to be avoided at all costs".
My personal acid test is this: Does it affect animals in a signifiant negative way.?
I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
The problem is that of labels and groups and blindly and rigidly sticking to arbitrary rules.
It isn't a religion.
Someone (like me) might have been scoffing steaks weekly, chicken, lamb, pork, bacon, eggs, milk-shakes etc etc every day of the week.
Then they have the epiphany, the red-pill moment. They maybe see a documentary that puts it into focus or maybe they come across a Youtube video that switches a light on in the brain..who knows?
But suddenly they think they must worry about honey, about cross-contamination, get rid of all their leather shoes or jackets, ditch the woolly jumpers.
From almost full on carnivore to squabbling over details.
This is the problem with the label and group-think.
The number one thing is to stop purchasing meat, dairy, eggs from the supermarket. Choose alternatives to leather, wool and silk. Try to get cruelty free cosmetics and bathroom supplies...
Anything beyond that is noise.
To strict definitions and rules and regulations the likes of PETA state, I'm not vegan. To 99% of the population I might as well be. To 0.01% of the population I'm just another omni or at best vegetarian.
I realise now that what that 0.01% of the population thinks about me or people like me is completely irrelevant.
If you can't give up honey, go find a local apiary or see if your local store stocks their produce. If you miss your eggs, try to source those from rescues.
If you feel attached to the wool jumper your grandmother gifted you...wear it.
You need your old leather shoes for an interview...wear them.
None of that is affecting any animals.
Ignore the cries of "It normalises exploitation" blah boody blah. So what? Nobody but the 0.01% gives a hoot and it does no harm.
Veganism doesn't need to be less strict...WE simply need to apply its principles to our lives in any way we can...
The problem is that of labels and groups and blindly and rigidly sticking to arbitrary rules.
It isn't a religion.
Someone (like me) might have been scoffing steaks weekly, chicken, lamb, pork, bacon, eggs, milk-shakes etc etc every day of the week.
Then they have the epiphany, the red-pill moment. They maybe see a documentary that puts it into focus or maybe they come across a Youtube video that switches a light on in the brain..who knows?
But suddenly they think they must worry about honey, about cross-contamination, get rid of all their leather shoes or jackets, ditch the woolly jumpers.
From almost full on carnivore to squabbling over details.
This is the problem with the label and group-think.
The number one thing is to stop purchasing meat, dairy, eggs from the supermarket. Choose alternatives to leather, wool and silk. Try to get cruelty free cosmetics and bathroom supplies...
Anything beyond that is noise.
To strict definitions and rules and regulations the likes of PETA state, I'm not vegan. To 99% of the population I might as well be. To 0.01% of the population I'm just another omni or at best vegetarian.
I realise now that what that 0.01% of the population thinks about me or people like me is completely irrelevant.
If you can't give up honey, go find a local apiary or see if your local store stocks their produce. If you miss your eggs, try to source those from rescues.
If you feel attached to the wool jumper your grandmother gifted you...wear it.
You need your old leather shoes for an interview...wear them.
None of that is affecting any animals.
Ignore the cries of "It normalises exploitation" blah boody blah. So what? Nobody but the 0.01% gives a hoot and it does no harm.
Veganism doesn't need to be less strict...WE simply need to apply its principles to our lives in any way we can...
A long time ago PETA asked vegans not to worry about small amounts of animal products in food. See A Note About Small Amounts of Animal Products in Foods | PETA which is reproduced below:
Some packaged foods have a long list of ingredients. The farther an ingredient is down the list, the less of that ingredient is in the food. People who have made the compassionate decision to stop eating animal flesh, eggs, and dairy products may wonder if they need to read every ingredient to check for tiny amounts of obscure animal products. Our general advice is not to worry too much about doing this. The goal of being vegan is to help animals and reduce suffering; this is done by choosing a bean burrito or a veggie burger over chicken flesh, or choosing tofu scramble over eggs, not by refusing to eat an otherwise vegan food because it has 0.001 grams of monoglycerides that may possibly be animal-derived.
We discourage vegans from grilling waiters at restaurants about micro-ingredients in vegetarian foods (e.g., a tiny bit of a dairy product in the bun of a veggie burger). Doing so makes being vegan seem difficult and dogmatic to your friends and to restaurant staff, thus discouraging them from going vegan themselves (which really hurts animals). And we urge vegans not to insist that their food be cooked on equipment separate from that used to cook meat; doing so doesn’t help any additional animals, and it only makes restaurants less inclined to offer vegan choices (which, again, hurts animals).
Remember that every vegan saves nearly 200 animals a year from horrific cruelty—and by encouraging people around you to follow your lead, you can save many more.
As to the text quoted...I fully agree.
However, they are against pets. They are against service animals. I am not.
I think domestic animals are important. So much so that I doubt veganism would be a thing but for the fact they have been around for millennia.
I think service animals are incredibly important...
Dogs for the blind, deaf and with epilepsy etc.
Dogs for sniffing for explosives, drugs etc
Dogs for finding lost people.
etc etc.
I also think these animals need to be bred. Sure, adopt first if possible, but it isn't always possible...certainly not for service jobs...
Also, whilst I don't eat honey myself, I don't have an issue with it...not in a world where much vegan food is pollinated by professional apiarists.
Nor do I care about oysters, mussels and any other animalia with no ability to feel pain.
So essentially I am not 100% against "exploitation".
I am against cruelty, unnecessary suffering and use of animals for foods, clothes and other products.
So I am very pro "cultured meat", even if it means taking a biopsy...as long as any animal used is unharmed.
These things all go against vegan purity...
