Let's Make Veganism Less Strict

[Natnik98]

This is why I enjoy this site and not Reddit's r/vegan because I don't feel judged every time I slip up and I feel encouraged to keep trying. Reddit is famous for the "you're plant based not vegan" argument and it's very frustrating. I always worry I'm not good enough to be vegan. I saw one Reddit post where Hershey's made oat milk chocolate bars, and a handful of people were saying how shitty Hershey is as a company (which yes, they shouldn't get their cocoa from providers that exploit children) but some even claimed it wasn't vegan to buy the oat milk bars from them due to that. Like...the child slavery thing is a separate issue. And a Reddit user a while ago telling me that anyone who goes back to eating animal products was never vegan (I think I was talking about my history of slip ups and how I was starting out again)...like...I get scared to call myself vegan now.

Exactly this
I changed my own approach after reading "How to create a vegan world". The author talks about the real and meanigful changes. Flexitarians are the most influential group regarding reducing the cruelty towards animals because it's the biggest one. Making small steps is really important. 1000 flexitarians/vegetarians are ultimately more influential than one vegan. Like, no, I won't eat a non-vegan birthday cake with my friends but sometimes I won't check all the ingredients of rolls or bread because the list isn't always available at the stores and like 95% of them are vegan here (unless it's obvious that the topping is cheesy or something like that). But I'm still opposed to the idea of using animals. If there are clear vegan labels, I'll always choose those products over non-vegan ones.

And according to Tobias Leenaert (the book's author), it's more pragmatic to be inclusive. I do consider myself vegan even if I use non-vegan floor cleaner or won't ask the company if the flavouring (aroma? not sure if that's the right word, I'm not a native speaker) in their chips is vegan.

Also, I love my non-vegan mum. I would never cut contact with her. I love my vegetarian best friend. I love my vegan sister that sometimes eats products containing trace amounts od milk and eggs. I love all the super vegans that actively work for a better world. Like someone else mentioned it earlier here, I'm not less of a feminist if I have some unfeminist fantasies. Sure, I am trying to be better at being a vegan. I'd be so happy if every food, cosmetics, clothing, etc. were vegan. And to achieve something close to that, we shouldn't judge people too much. We will never be perfect because perfection is up to interpretation by every single human being.

 

[Tom L.]

........And according to Tobias Leenaert (the book's author), it's more pragmatic to be inclusive. I do consider myself vegan even if I use non-vegan floor cleaner or won't ask the company if the flavouring (aroma? not sure if that's the right word, I'm not a native speaker) in their chips is vegan. ..........

(I've only quoted part of your post) Your English is MUCH better than my French or Irish (the only two languages I've ever studied). Welcome!

 

[Natnik98]

(I've only quoted part of your post) Your English is MUCH better than my French or Irish (the only two languages I've ever studied). Welcome!

Oh gosh, thank you I've studied English Philology but have always been so unsure about my skills. But my writing is much better than speaking xD
Wow, Irish seems so difficult when I hear it, must be pretty intriguing language to learn. And I was studying French in high school but had trouble with understanding it and the pronunciation killed me. I love French movies though! Am always so excited when I'm able to recognize some words from the dialogue
I think knowing two foreign languages that are less popular than English is awesome

 

[Tom L.]

@Natnik98 I think it's usually easier to read and write a language than to speak it or understand it spoken. But almost any language can have its own problems: my English spelling has always been good, but there are so many ways to spell the same sound in English, I sometimes wonder how ANYONE learns to read or write it! (rowed, road, right, write, reed, read, red... ) And Irish is very different from English
in many ways.

I've forgotten most of my French and Irish, because I don't have anyone to speak them with. I hope I can study Irish again.

Your cat avatar is cute!

 

[Natnik98]

@Natnik98 I think it's usually easier to read and write a language than to speak it or understand it spoken. But almost any language can have its own problems: my English spelling has always been good, but there are so many ways to spell the same sound in English, I sometimes wonder how ANYONE learns to read or write it! (rowed, road, right, write, reed, read, red... ) And Irish is very different from English
in many ways.

I've forgotten most of my French and Irish, because I don't have anyone to speak them with. I hope I can study Irish again.

Your cat avatar is cute!

That's true! But I really wish I was less shy and just go with it My perfectionism isn't very helpful. And English is ofen quite tricky, yes. The grammar rules, many tenses, the pronunciation - in my language we pronounce every single letter xD But I still found it appealing as a kid and it became my favourite school subject

Hope you will be able to talk to some Irish and French people in the future Speaking regularly with the natives is always the best way to practice language skills but yeah, it's not that easy to find those natives...

Thanks! I love "Flow"

 

[HappyVegan66]

Just be as vegan as you possibly can be. its not rocket science

 

[Natnik98]

Just be as vegan as you possibly can be. its not rocket science

Yep, that's it

 

[allindogecoin]

One of the biggest struggles I have as a vegan is trying to maintain faith or hope in humanity when the evidence for misanthropy is overwhelming. Almost every day I have waves of misanthropy that I try to talk myself out of or suppress.

 

[Emma JC]

One of the biggest struggles I have as a vegan is trying to maintain faith or hope in humanity when the evidence for misanthropy is overwhelming. Almost every day I have waves of misanthropy that I try to talk myself out of or suppress.

I hear you and also know that I am only responsible for my actions, reactions, soul etc and my hope is that some of that will rub off on the world around me and let everyone else be responsible for themselves.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[Natnik98]

One of the biggest struggles I have as a vegan is trying to maintain faith or hope in humanity when the evidence for misanthropy is overwhelming. Almost every day I have waves of misanthropy that I try to talk myself out of or suppress.

I get you, the reality can make you feel so powerless It's a strange feeling cause I'm like "how can people be so ignorant and cruel" but then I recall my thoughts before turning vegan - I was stubborn and couldn't accept the fact that the majority of population is wrong. But it's exactly the same with human rights, racism, homophobia, etc. It's difficult to change one's mindset, conformity is much easier.
People do have some awesome qualities and I believe in positive reinforcement. We can be the reason for which they may try to understand our point

 

[Lou]

One of the biggest struggles I have as a vegan is trying to maintain faith or hope in humanity when the evidence for misanthropy is overwhelming. Almost every day I have waves of misanthropy that I try to talk myself out of or suppress.

I don't think I have ever felt that way. but I can relate. the first time Trump got elected I felt that way. then the second time he got elected I totally lost confidence in the American Electorate. I don't get a lot of news from Australia but what I do get seems like you have a good government. So maybe just concentrate on that.

And if as a cure for all the bad news maybe get some good news. I find this YouTube channel to hit the spot.

 

[Ahimsa24/7]

One of the biggest struggles I have as a vegan is trying to maintain faith or hope in humanity when the evidence for misanthropy is overwhelming. Almost every day I have waves of misanthropy that I try to talk myself out of or suppress.

I don't expect humanity as a whole to "see the light" about animal cruelty in my lifetime. But I always end the semester in one of the college courses that I teach with the "starfish story", which you may have heard before.

The Starfish Thrower story is an inspirational tale about a person throwing stranded starfish back into the ocean to save them. When told they cannot possibly make a difference due to the thousands of starfish on the beach, the thrower tosses another, saying, "I made a difference for THAT one," highlighting the power of individual action.

 

[Lou]

Oh, I know that "starfish Story". but when I read "starfish story" my mind first went to a very different story. The one where they were trying to eradicate an invasive destructive species of starfish by cutting them in half. and then they ended up with twice the number of starfish. That story illustrates how stupid some people are and that seems to bring the discussion full circle.

 

[g0rph]

One of the biggest struggles I have as a vegan is trying to maintain faith or hope in humanity when the evidence for misanthropy is overwhelming. Almost every day I have waves of misanthropy that I try to talk myself out of or suppress.

I had this for a while.

Although it manifested more in vystopia.
I am over it now.
I kind of resigned myself to the fact that some people are inherently ****...but it IS a minority...
It would be VERY interesting to see how many people would continue eating and wearing animals if they had to do the slaughter themselves...
At the very least we'd be in a dairy/egg free pescatarian society IMO.

Make sure your Youtube feed is full of positive stuff (if you use Youtube).
I have loads of inspirational sites that I am subscribed to.
Avoid the worst aspects of humanity.

Remember that as a whole, (and this seems counter-intuitive), the world is getting better....You need to look in far larger time-scales to see it though...50/100 years at a time.
Dog-fighting, bear-baiting, cock fighting all used to be legal and well-participated.
Before then, the French had a festival where they would fill a net full of cats and lower it onto a fire.
Slavery, women's (lack of )rights, LGBTQ (lack of) rights, child exploitation...all used to be a thing.
Hell, one of the absolute heros of WW2, Alan Turing, without who we might have actually lost, was prosecuted for being gay and later committed suicide.
It took until 1967 for the UK to unban homosexual relations.
Just think, "modern" societies have been around for 1000s of years, and only in the last century have women had the vote and being gay become legal.

But things like poverty, childhood mortality, women's rights (especially education) are all far better now than 50, 100 years ago. And 50, 100 years ago, things were better than 150,200 years ago etc etc.