Identities and competition

[EdenBound]

This is a musing about competition and discord that surrounds people's identities. I welcome collaboration.

We all yearn to belong to something -- a tribal instinct to be part of a community that's meaningful. A survival mechanism because there's strength in numbers.

Historically, people that identify as 'vegan' inspire a unique reaction. Some psychology attributes this to everyone's innate fear of being judged and people's 'guilty pleasures' in calorie-dense foods as being on display whenever a 'vegan' is present. It may also be the tribal instinct to want to prove that your group is better than the one over the hill -- anthropologically speaking.

The question I want to pose in this context is this: do we need to put our pride away? Whether you're an ethical vegan, a health-conscious vegan, or some mixture, there may be a valuable key thread that's fundamental to these behaviors: humility. In an American culture where everyone is hell-bent on being right about everything, why don't we consider dropping this in order to start winning hearts among those that want to be right? Think and act with humility instead of a need to identify with something that inspires competition, fear, disgust, or hatred. We can be the light and let our actions speak for ourselves. An anti-identity?

 

[Kathy Lauren]

Which most of us already do. I am not a vegan activist. I am just an ordinary vegan. I don't proselytize. I just bring tasty food to pot-luck dinners. I don't deny being a vegan. That would be dishonest. But I don't advertise it either.

I have several other "identities", which I don't generally advertise either. There is nothing wrong with having an identity (or several). Advertising your identity/identities in the wrong context can get annoying. It is usually good to not be annoying. On the other hand, being annoying is sometimes necessary.

 

[Brian W]

We all yearn to belong to something -- a tribal instinct to be part of a community that's meaningful.

All...?

 

[silva]

I don't feel 'tribal' at all, and only declare I'm vegan if it's relevant. There are so many battles out there, and choices to make. My desire to remove animals as commodities is as important as others fight for the rights of others.

Not at all understanding the comment on "people's 'guilty pleasures' in calorie-dense foods as being on display whenever a 'vegan' is present."

My activism is really limited to letter writing to legislators and food and product companies. As for 'community', I have yet to join any real life vegan groups as I have been opposed to the very hubris you are referring to, the scorn too many activists show for those who don't share their beliefs.
I don't hide my beliefs, I love discussions of foods and find the simple act of sharing new ways to see things do more to change habits than traumatizing people with abuse stories

 

[EdenBound]

All...?

Millions of years of tribal and survival instincts?

 

[EdenBound]

Which most of us already do. I am not a vegan activist. I am just an ordinary vegan. I don't proselytize. I just bring tasty food to pot-luck dinners. I don't deny being a vegan. That would be dishonest. But I don't advertise it either.

I have several other "identities", which I don't generally advertise either. There is nothing wrong with having an identity (or several). Advertising your identity/identities in the wrong context can get annoying. It is usually good to not be annoying. On the other hand, being annoying is sometimes necessary.

I suppose the broader point is do any of these identities matter? If our legacy is defined more by how we've loved and been loved, do our identities -- and the pride that fuels them -- matter after we're gone?

 

[EdenBound]

Which most of us already do. I am not a vegan activist. I am just an ordinary vegan. I don't proselytize. I just bring tasty food to pot-luck dinners. I don't deny being a vegan. That would be dishonest. But I don't advertise it either.

I have several other "identities", which I don't generally advertise either. There is nothing wrong with having an identity (or several). Advertising your identity/identities in the wrong context can get annoying. It is usually good to not be annoying. On the other hand, being annoying is sometimes necessary.

What about being an ordinary person that happens to eat plants? We don't have to 'admit' to anything. The word vegan inspires competition and barriers despite our best intentions so why not change for the better?

 

[EdenBound]

I don't feel 'tribal' at all, and only declare I'm vegan if it's relevant. There are so many battles out there, and choices to make. My desire to remove animals as commodities is as important as others fight for the rights of others.

Not at all understanding the comment on "people's 'guilty pleasures' in calorie-dense foods as being on display whenever a 'vegan' is present."

My activism is really limited to letter writing to legislators and food and product companies. As for 'community', I have yet to join any real life vegan groups as I have been opposed to the very hubris you are referring to, the scorn too many activists show for those who don't share their beliefs.
I don't hide my beliefs, I love discussions of foods and find the simple act of sharing new ways to see things do more to change habits than traumatizing people with abuse stories

Whether you believe something is or isn't true, you're always going to be right. However, the word vegan inspires competition among those who aren't; barriers that don't allow for love. Can this be agreed on? So whether you feel tribal or not, the external world more than likely does.

The food of kings is calorie-dense. The term 'guilty pleasure' applies to calorie-dense foods. People know that fried chicken is probably not good for them (and maybe deep down know that it's not good for the chickens either) despite the doubt sown by food industries. People feel judged around those who are striving to do better. I'm just parroting observations from the psychology world.

I like your perspective on sharing.

 

[EdenBound]

Which most of us already do. I am not a vegan activist. I am just an ordinary vegan. I don't proselytize. I just bring tasty food to pot-luck dinners. I don't deny being a vegan. That would be dishonest. But I don't advertise it either.

I have several other "identities", which I don't generally advertise either. There is nothing wrong with having an identity (or several). Advertising your identity/identities in the wrong context can get annoying. It is usually good to not be annoying. On the other hand, being annoying is sometimes necessary.

Which identities matter after you're gone? That you rooted for a certain sports team or voted a certain way? Or is it the ripples in a pond that happens when you express love with actions? Is love fueled with pride or humility? Can you want to be better than someone and also love them?

 

[Kathy Lauren]

What about being an ordinary person that happens to eat plants? We don't have to 'admit' to anything. The word vegan inspires competition and barriers despite our best intentions so why not change for the better?

You sound like you want to argue with me. Except that we are on the same side. It is only the word "vegan" that you object to. Don't use the word if it bothers you.

But I think we are better off normalizing the word. Someone gets to know me and sees that I don't eat meat. Then they see that I don't eat dairy either. "So, what are you, vegan or something?" "Yes I am actually." "But you seemed so normal." "Exactly!"

 

[silva]

Whether you believe something is or isn't true, you're always going to be right. However, the word vegan inspires competition among those who aren't; barriers that don't allow for love. Can this be agreed on? So whether you feel tribal or not, the external world more than likely does.

The food of kings is calorie-dense. The term 'guilty pleasure' applies to calorie-dense foods. People know that fried chicken is probably not good for them (and maybe deep down know that it's not good for the chickens either) despite the doubt sown by food industries. People feel judged around those who are striving to do better. I'm just parroting observations from the psychology world.

I like your perspective on sharing.

No idea what you mean there
No, I don't find saying vegan inspires competition among those who aren't. It never seems to be those around me I fight, they're more than happy to have vegan options.

It doesn't need to have animal products to be calorie dense, so again, no idea what you're getting at--although I really do--you're conflating vegan with wfpb, again

Seriously, please stop using the term 'vegan' and stick with plant based. Vegan isn't a 'club' it's an ethical choice

(I'm getting Michele Bachmann vibes )

 

[Brian W]

Millions of years of tribal and survival instincts?

I understand your thinking but in practice it doesn't apply to everybody. I value my friends but I hold them very loosely, choosing to let go of them if, in our growing and changing, we cease to have common ground. I am not a part of any community and always find myself on the fringes of anything I am involved in because I value truth over hive-mindedness. I get along fine with most of the vegans here but I value them for their individuality, not their conformity, and I refuse to identify as vegan myself. Of course, I need connection with humans and humanity, but not on that level. My closest friends have always been very independent and individual. We have lived outside of tribes for centuries and therefore do not have "millions of years of tribal and survival instincts" and if we are intelligent enough, we can co-operate where it is necessary and still retain our individuality.

 

[TVS]

Im not sure if I understood what you are after, but it does remind me one of Obama's talks where he "calls out woke culture" and critisises youth for their attitude that he puts as "the way of me making a change is to be as judgemental as possible about other people, and that's enough".

I do think some form of activism is very counter productive for this precise reason, seeking differences and being judgemental, where a kinder, humbler and understanding approach could cultive a seed of change.

Some vegans, me included, sometime struggle with non-vegans' attitude about vegans as them being radical, crazy and judgemental. However, I don't think that idea came out of nowhere, and i'm not sure if it has been beneficial for "the movement"

 

[Brian W]

Some vegans, me included, sometime struggle with non-vegans' attitude about vegans as them being radical, crazy and judgemental. However, I don't think that idea came out of nowhere, and i'm not sure if it has been beneficial for "the movement"

I suspect that both the judgemental attitude from many vegans and the defensive attitude of many non-vegans comes from a loud minority rather than from the quieter majority.

 

[Lou]

I think part of the problem is something humanity has been grappling with for a long time.

When does tolerance become appeasement? And when does appeasement become cooperation?

How much involvement is ethical. If its the right thing to save an animal's life that lives next door. Isn't it just as right to save an animal's life 1000 miles away. Is there a proximity factor in utilitarianism?

Or perhaps a better analogy is: Is it enough to Not stone a woman - perhaps you have to stand in the way.

BTW, I don't know the answers to these questions.

 

[ewomack]

I have been publicly shamed for ordering vegan food. I just took it. I didn't "fight back." I didn't even try to argue with the person. Why should I waste my energy? Such things just turn into pointless shouting matches and, in some cases, could even turn violent. I just try to live by example. I can't force anyone to do anything that they don't want to do, nor should I. The vast majority of people, even so-called "intellectuals," tend to follow emotional confirmation biases over rationality (whatever that is), mostly because the modern world makes it very difficult for people to live their beliefs in a fully consistent manner. Don't try to control things that you can't control. It will lead to disappointment. Live the life you want to live and hopefully others will see the benefits and decide to follow along. Most won't. So it goes. So far, of all of the people who have asked me why I eat almost no meat, drink no alcohol, take no drugs or don't really even live a typical "capitalist" lifestyle, I have swayed absolutely none. They simply don't understand why I, or anyone, would live like that. And I don't understand why anyone would live like they do. What do you do? It feels like detente. Shouting doesn't help. Arguing doesn't help. Threatening doesn't help. You can only live the life you want and hope that you can provide an example to others. This is a long way of saying that I've never consciously tried to turn anyone into a vegan. I don't want anyone in my community who doesn't want to be there, just as I don't want to be part of anyone else's community that I don't want to be a part of. I just leave it at that.

 

[FlandersOD]

Well why should one practice humility regarding this at the very least one is the only one showing any degree of being driven by anything other than base hedonic instincts, and that's putting it lightly.

Outright logical fallacies non-sequitur claiming things that are as blatantly incoherent as saying 'La-la-la-la-la-la-la' while putting fingers in one ear canals pretending it fully cancels out the sound full grown biological adults far beyond age of social and legal maturity, yet who are still far away from turning senile, somehow decide to act so senile to a point where actual toddlers are more reasonably behaved actual toddlers are more reasonably behaved, heck even actual infants have better manners.

 

[vesper818]

I guess I'm out of the loop. Not tribal at all, don't know a single vegan or WFPB eater in real life, and decidedly anticompetitive. Lifetime motto of live, let live and be as kind and uplifting as possible.
The closest thing to a vegan"community" for is this forum. You all are to nice to be contentious with about self definitions and identities.

 

[bEt]

Maybe a similar idea?

Let´s Make Veganism Less Strict | Vegan Forum

and

Is it Time to Focus More on People and Less on Vegans? | Just Us Too