How to think about Synthetic Dairy proteins

silva

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Are you a vegan? If so, you must know the answer to this question.

I have no idea why soy milk was produced, but I wasn't talking about plant-based foods meant to replace animal-based foods. I thought this synthetic dairy we are talking about is something synthesized from actual pre-existing milk proteins somehow without milking any new cows. So it would be a real dairy product, which soy milk is not. That's what I meant by "proxy." But actually I have no idea how this stuff would be made.
I understand Graeme to mean synthetic animal products aren't that different than what we are already making as substitutes.
I didn't "lump it in." I said it would normalize consuming typically produced animal products, which implies that it's not quite the same thing as consuming typically produced animal products.


That is not the only thing it can encourage. If it's similar enough, it can also accustom people to consuming dairy and reinforce their pre-existing consumption of dairy, and what are the non-vegans likely to do if they ever cannot get this synthesized dairy they've become attached to? They'll go back to the regular dairy. It doesn't matter that people aren't stupid; what's relevant is that most of them aren't vegans and that they will act accordingly. Non-vegans will go along with vegan products only so long as it's convenient for them.
The number one reason I hear that keeps people from wanting plant based foods, especially dairy products, is there taste and texture. I always here 'if it's as good', and honestly, they're just not what people find to be 'as good'. For most people what they're used to eating and making overrides any ethical stance.
I don't agree with your thinking that these products will reinforce the desire of animal products. If there were products the same as animal products the demand would neccessitate competitive pricing,which would by design make animal farming not sustainable. It will take generations to stop seeing animals as food, and by having foods that people are willing to use instead is the beginning
 

permabulk

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It will take generations to stop seeing animals as food, and by having foods that people are willing to use instead is the beginning
This completely irrelevant to anything I've posted in this thread, and frankly I'm tired of people missing my point or assuming I have a point that I don't have or whatever is happening.

Look, people's taste buds and habits can change with time. If they keep consuming things that have the same taste/texture, that reinforces the pre-existing habits, relative to not consuming things that have the same taste/texture. For example, if someone wants to stop craving milk, not drinking milk is the best way to do it. The synthetic but nearly identical milk might be better for animals, but it reinforces the craving (whereas soy milk tastes completely different and likely won't reinforce the craving). That's all I'm saying. It makes no sense to disagree with that because it's an observable fact; it's happened before. Continuing a habit with a nearly identical habit can reinforce the habit for many if not most people. That's a separate issue from the fact that the mere switch from dairy to synthetic dairy helps animals. One doesn't negate the other. There can be both positive and negative implications of synthetic dairy.
 

500channelsurfer

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People aren't stupid
Unfortunately, people overall as a group's lack of thinking things through should never be underestimated. Whatever the lowest-prices milk is at the largest big box store will be a best seller for at least 50 % of the population. Those who shop ethically, for nutrition, locally, vegans, etc, are divided and also in the minority.

these kinds of animal product proxies serve to normalize animal product consumption to some extent
Really? Providing an alternative to animal products could normalize consumption of animal products?
I am not for these types of proxy products generally, but additional non-animal products can only diminish animal product consumption. Ifs and buts can go either way in any argument

this synthetic dairy we are talking about is something synthesized from actual pre-existing milk proteins somehow without milking any new cows. So it would be a real dairy product
Now this is a good argument! :grinning: Going vegan for me always included finding products more directly from nature and from plant agriculture. Animal-derived products are not vegan, whether it be via laboratory or via slaughterhouse should make no difference.
 

silva

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This completely irrelevant to anything I've posted in this thread, and frankly I'm tired of people missing my point or assuming I have a point that I don't have or whatever is happening.

Look, people's taste buds and habits can change with time. If they keep consuming things that have the same taste/texture, that reinforces the pre-existing habits, relative to not consuming things that have the same taste/texture. For example, if someone wants to stop craving milk, not drinking milk is the best way to do it. The synthetic but nearly identical milk might be better for animals, but it reinforces the craving (whereas soy milk tastes completely different and likely won't reinforce the craving). That's all I'm saying. It makes no sense to disagree with that because it's an observable fact; it's happened before. Continuing a habit with a nearly identical habit can reinforce the habit for many if not most people. That's a separate issue from the fact that the mere switch from dairy to synthetic dairy helps animals. One doesn't negate the other. There can be both positive and negative implications of synthetic dairy.
I didn't miss your point, I have a very different outlook
Do you have the same feelings towards faux fur vs real fur? They're pretty indistinguishable, yet the availablity of faux fur hasn't curried any favor towards real. It has in fact turned more against real fur as it opened eyes to the needless horror of killing animals for fashion

The reality is that few people have enough desire to be willing to give up the foods they like. If your idea of abstaning from desired foods were the solution no one would be struggling with giving them up for health reasons, much less ethics.