How can I tell if my veg is vegan?

[TofuRobot]

I'm not convinced you are a troll. So I will give you some help.

You said, "I'm thinking about going vegan, but when I do something, I do it 100% or there's just no point."

Really? Well besides that fact that is a terrible strategy, it doesn't even seem possible. What a tremendous waste of time.

I mentioned bridge builders do things at 100%, but i just realized they don't. They build their bridges way over 100% because there are lots of other factors that they don't bother factoring in. You know why? Cause it's not worth their time to try and figure out all the other factors (that 100%). Its just easier and cheaper to overbuild.

Medical research is usually done up to 95%. If they are really careful they go up to 98.5%. But never any higher. It isn't cost effective. and has no discernable benefit. Law of diminishing returns and all.

When I shop for a used car I don't look at every used car in the world. I don't even look at as many as I have time for. I just shop for a reasonable amount of time.

And when I'm trying to figure out something that I don't know about. Then i ask a couple of experts. Or I read a book.

Have you ever competed at any level? Did you say to yourself, "if I can't be the best, I won't even try?" well. hopefully/probably not. You probably said, "I'm going to try my best. "

this is the same thing. You just try to do your best. Maybe you try "100%" but you don't have to get "100% results.
"

Good point, but I don't like the fact that I pick and choose what does and doesn't die.
[/QUOTE]
You might not like it, but you should get used to it or you are going to drive yourself crazy. Your very existence involves the demise of other life forms. You can't walk across the floor/ground without stepping on something you probably can't see at least once in a while. You can't even sleep without bugs crawling in & out of your orifices (it is said that the average human swallows 52 spiders during their sleep during the course of their lifetime, on average).

Simply put, but taking your position, I can't be "100% (a literal impossibility)," I'm not going to try at all, means that you are choosing more harm than is necessary. That is your choice. How is this a better choice? How you could possibly have these facts, but throw them out the window because you cannot live fully 100% without harm, causing you to continue to do more harm than is otherwise necessary (by abandoning veganism), blows my mind.

 

[FalconHoof]

specifically the lifestyle of Jain monks.

You're not the first to suggest that to me.

 

[FalconHoof]

Thanks for the feedback everyone; I've decided that veganism isn't for me after all. It seems a bit strange that I can kill animals to protects my food from them, but not to make them food themselves.

 

[Forest Nymph]

Thanks for the feedback everyone; I've decided that veganism isn't for me after all. It seems a bit strange that I can kill animals to protects my food from them, but not to make them food themselves.

If you were the least bit logical or rational you'd see that cattle farming alone is almost single handedly destroying the planet.

In your deer example, you were playing at cost benefit analysis, a scientific approach to moral choices, and while you were thinking in the right way, you failed to follow it up with research and deeper thought.

If your goal is to save the most lives, in general, across species, you'd be vegan or lacto vegetarian for the planet. In cost benefit analysis, this saves the most lives without exercising bias.

 

[FalconHoof]

If you were the least bit logical or rational you'd see that cattle farming alone is almost single handedly destroying the planet.

In your deer example, you were playing at cost benefit analysis, a scientific approach to moral choices, and while you were thinking in the right way, you failed to follow it up with research and deeper thought.

If your goal is to save the most lives, in general, across species, you'd be vegan or lacto vegetarian for the planet. In cost benefit analysis, this saves the most lives without exercising bias.

Intensive farming of all kinds is bad the planet. crops fertilised with nitrogen being just one example. Hay-fed beef is actually good for the planet as the meadow is great for rare pollinators.

 

[Forest Nymph]

Intensive farming of all kinds is bad the planet. crops fertilised with nitrogen being just one example. Hay-fed beef is actually good for the planet as the meadow is great for rare pollinators.

You are incorrect. You're mouthing myths you heard from coworkers or on television. At 39 you're much too old to be this easily led by lack of research and logic. Honestly until I read your age today, I thought you must be in high school or traditional college age, if you're not a troll.

As I mentioned earlier, my degree is in environmental science and my upcoming Masters program in sustainable food systems. Don't throw stupid crap like this at me like you know what you're talking about.

The largest agricultural dead zones are from factory farmed animals, for example in the South Eastern US because of all of the ranches in the Midwest. Dairy farms are also a number one polluter in California.

You could easily even GOOGLE the top five worst foods for the planet, four of which are meat and cows cheese is also extremely bad. Even cows fed hay or grass waste land, waste water and release climate heating methane.

Finally, genius, those plants are being fed to animals instead of directly to people. If the world went vegan we wouldn't need new cropland. Those crops already exist to feed meat animals. Space on Earth used for agriculture would shrink from approximately forty percent to less than ten percent.

I have numerous scientific articles on this topic, some of which are already posted on this forum.

I knew you came here for a debate.

 

[Forest Nymph]

@FalconHoof if by chance you really didn't come here to behave like an obstinate child and you actually want to learn something, I have two easy to read articles from reputable sources in the past year. No education in reading scientific research required.

Huge reduction in meat-eating ‘essential’ to avoid climate breakdown

Major study also finds huge changes to farming are needed to avoid destroying Earth’s ability to feed its population

www.theguardian.com

Tackling the world’s most urgent problem: meat

Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat are joint winners of the Champions of the Earth Award, in the Science and Innovation category.

www.unenvironment.org

 

[FalconHoof]

@FalconHoof if by chance you really didn't come here to behave like an obstinate child and you actually want to learn something, I have two easy to read articles from reputable sources in the past year. No education in reading scientific research required.

Huge reduction in meat-eating ‘essential’ to avoid climate breakdown

Major study also finds huge changes to farming are needed to avoid destroying Earth’s ability to feed its population

www.theguardian.com

Tackling the world’s most urgent problem: meat

Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat are joint winners of the Champions of the Earth Award, in the Science and Innovation category.

www.unenvironment.org

I'll read it later, thanks. Also, there's no need for insults or aggression; if someone disagrees with you then that's their right. I'm looking for information, and I thought I'd find something here. I currently eat 12 portions of fruit and veg a day, along with line-caught fish & free-range chicken and eggs. Red meat is what's really bad for the planet, so I don't touch it.

Also, is there anything you can show me that debunks the whole thing about nitrogen fertilisers and the dead zones and greenhouses gases they create?

 

[Ger]

When I buy shoes for myself, I always look for a label inside the tongue. If the label says that the shoe is made from all-man-made materials, then I know that they are not made of leather or suede. If I then decide to buy them, I still won't know if some parts of these shoes are being held together by glue that was made by using animal parts. Still, if I do buy them, it's better than buying shoes that are made of leather or suede, I think. I mean, it's pretty hard to go through life without wearing shoes, isn't it? Anyway, when it comes to me caring about the animals, I just do the best that I can.

 

[Forest Nymph]

I'll read it later, thanks. Also, there's no need for insults or aggression; if someone disagrees with you then that's their right. I'm looking for information, and I thought I'd find something here. I currently eat 12 portions of fruit and veg a day, along with line-caught fish & free-range chicken and eggs. Red meat is what's really bad for the planet, so I don't touch it.

Also, is there anything you can show me that debunks the whole thing about nitrogen fertilisers and the dead zones and greenhouses gases they create?

I think you should start reading what I gave you first, because animal agriculture FAR outweighs the impacts of fruit and vegetable farming, and as I've already explained, there won't be "new" or "more" veg agriculture if we get rid of animal agriculture since those crops are currently being fed to meat animals.

Of course you'd know all of this if you'd actually read an article and do some research instead of acting like a child. Yeah, I don't like your attitude. I think you're passive aggressive, condescending, and rude...there were plenty of "nice" people here who offered you helpful advice or the benefit of the doubt, and all you had to say to them is "thank you for your feedback but no." I think it was about time someone got real with you.

When you actually do some real research instead of acting closed minded and stubborn, we can have a civil conversation. I'm the "expert" here, so this isn't a simple disagreement - I'm telling you, you're WRONG.

 

[Forest Nymph]

Also "free range" is ********. It's a meaningless marketing term. The best you can do with eggs is pasture or backyard. I'm guessing you also haven't heard about the seas being overfished, or seen the numerous charts listing impacts of all foods. I'm happy to provide up to twenty scientific studies to you, but you've got to read the first articles before I waste my time posting what you'll ignore or be unable to comprehend.

There are people here decades older than yourself and yet it's like you joined us from a time machine that flew here from 1995, with your chicken and fish.

 

[windrose]

Hi,

I'm thinking about going vegan, but when I do something, I do it 100% or there's just no point.

I'm trying to find fruit/veg/grain etc. producers that don't kill what naturally eats their produce (rabbits eat carrots, slugs eat lettuce etc.), but I can't find any info.

How do I know if the carrot I've bought didn't come from a farm that kills rabbits? Or the bread I eat didn't come from a grain farm that kills insects or birds, even organically?

I'm starting to worry that no food is actually vegan, I've obviously cut out the luxury crops like tea, coffee, tobacco etc., but I'm concerned that living only on organic, hydroponically grown food is going to leave me malnourished.

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks x

Consider looking into the Jain Sect of East Indian Culture...they do not consume onions or garlic, carrots, leeks, turnip, parsnip or any veg that comes out of the ground because the act of pulling them from the ground may kill insects. It can drive you nuts..oh ya..no peanuts...