Good vegan intentions

[Smileypotato123]

I went vegan in 2007 after being veggie since 2005. Its the best decision I ever made... leading me to think if only I'd always been vegan and that the same for everyone else. It got me thinking that if everyone had always been vegan then there would be so much good intention and everyone would be much healthier, much happier and there would be less suffering. If all the dangerous animals were prevented from breeding and only animals that can survive as vegans were allowed to live then the world would be a much safer place.

 

[Emma JC]

Your idea is somewhat sweet however I do disagree with your ban of dangerous animals as they are awesome and unique and keep the world in balance and, also, who determines which are dangerous? mosquitos kill more people than any other animal...

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[Lou]

If all the dangerous animals were prevented from breeding and only animals that can survive as vegans were allowed to live then the world would be a much safer place.

except for all the "dangerous animals"

also what about pet dogs and cats. I'm sure this is a controversial statement, and I'm not going to take the time to gather "evidence" but I bet there are more cows, chickens and pigs killed to make pet food than all the animals lions, tigers, and bears (oh my) kill.

 

[Natnik98]

except for all the "dangerous animals"

also what about pet dogs and cats. I'm sure this is a controversial statement, and I'm not going to take the time to gather "evidence" but I bet there are more cows, chickens and pigs killed to make pet food than all the animals lions, tigers, and bears (oh my) kill.

Pets is such a delicate matter. I think that the lab-grown meat could be the answer in the future. I don't have cats (which I love) or dogs because I couldn't force myself to buy and cut meat My vegan sister does have a cat and feeds her with regular pet food.

When it comes to wild predators, it is sad that cruelty naturally exists but at least it's not factory farming. I mean, hunters' activity was not as harmful as current method of producing meat in the capitalist era. Plus animals don't have conscience, we do.

 

[Lou]

Plus animals don't have conscience, we do.

It might just be anthropomorphizing , but I think I've seen dogs look guilty. Wild animals may have acted with compassion. or even exhibit acts of bravery. Chimps mourn their fallen friends. Crows hold grudges.

One of the best known experts on Animal Intelligence has said something along the lines of we are not smart enough to know how animals think.

 

[secondmayfly]

Hey, environmental science student here. I understand where you're coming from with reducing suffering by removing carnivorous animals, but unfortunately that's not really how nature works. What they do is brutal, but predators are a part of nature's self regulation. If the population of herbivores wasn't controlled by carnivores, the herbivore population would explode and they'd overgraze, damaging and possibly eliminating plant populations. Without any predators, there'd be total ecological collapse.

 

[Lou]

Hey, environmental science student here. I understand where you're coming from with reducing suffering by removing carnivorous animals, but unfortunately that's not really how nature works. What they do is brutal, but predators are a part of nature's self regulation. If the population of herbivores wasn't controlled by carnivores, the herbivore population would explode and they'd overgraze, damaging and possibly eliminating plant populations. Without any predators, there'd be total ecological collapse.

Yes, I remember in some college class we looked at some case studies. In several places, like Colorado, Montana and Minnesota, they removed all the wolves and the deer overpopulated and either died from illness or starvation.

However hunting (by humans) does not control the deer population like wolves do. Wolves prey on the sick and weak. Hunters will kill whatever they see.

 

[Smileypotato123]

I'd like to think that animals could evolve with intelligence to not destroy the plant kingdom. Unless vegan humans really take control then dangerous animals will rule the world with other meat eating humans.

 

[Smileypotato123]

This is why there is no easy solution because non violent vegans dont stand a chance of stopping the killing.

 

[shyvas]

I'd like to think that animals could evolve with intelligence to not destroy the plant kingdom. Unless vegan humans really take control then dangerous animals will rule the world with other meat eating humans.

I've lost the plot here.

 

[Natnik98]

It might just be anthropomorphizing , but I think I've seen dogs look guilty. Wild animals may have acted with compassion. or even exhibit acts of bravery. Chimps mourn their fallen friends. Crows hold grudges.

One of the best known experts on Animal Intelligence has said something along the lines of we are not smart enough to know how animals think.

True but I thought more about full conscience, like we have it. Animals do have deeper feelings, especially mothers mourning their children but when predators kill they don't really feel bad about it, I suppose. It's how they function, they need meat in their diet. Domesticated animals are generally less violent (and domesticated doesn't always mean that they live with humans - highly recommend "The Goodness Paradox" by Richard Wrangham (btw, he's a vegetarian ).

 

[Lou]

I'd like to think that animals could evolve with intelligence to not destroy the plant kingdom. Unless vegan humans really take control then dangerous animals will rule the world with other meat eating humans.

No!
Plants and animals have co-habitated earth for like 500 million years.
Agriculture showed up About 5000 years ago . if you take life on earth and compress it into 24 hours, humans have only been around for a minute.
Humans are responsible for habitat destruction. Predators have been in equilibrium for millions of years.

 

[Tom L.]

Hey, environmental science student here. I understand where you're coming from with reducing suffering by removing carnivorous animals, but unfortunately that's not really how nature works. What they do is brutal, but predators are a part of nature's self regulation. If the population of herbivores wasn't controlled by carnivores, the herbivore population would explode and they'd overgraze, damaging and possibly eliminating plant populations. Without any predators, there'd be total ecological collapse.

(bold emphasis mine) This is the generally-accepted view. But I don't think it's quite that simple......

As far as I know, elephants and rhinoceroses*** have no significant predators other than humans- but they also have low reproductive rates and don't appear to have population explosions the way rodents and cervids (for example) do. I'm not sure about giraffes; I think lions manage to kill them sometimes, but there's a video on YouTube(?) showing a giraffe stomping on a lioness (which is apparently badly injured already at the start of the video).

Another puzzle: what keeps the populations of top predators (such as eagles, orcas, lions, and wolves) in check, when they don't appear to have significant predation upon them? (I think I've read accounts of lions and wolves killing each other- I don't know about the other two, but it wouldn't surprise me.)

One might just as easily argue that most prey animals evolved high reproductive rates because of predation pressure on them.

***I had to look up the plural of "rhinoceros" to be certain it was correct- although apparently "rhinoceri" is used sometimes- THANK YOU, Google AI (and other websites) !!!