Evil

Ahimsa

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If we define evil in a non-theological sense we could say that it's: deliberate and unnecessary harm caused for some form of gratification. In which case, we would have to regard the purchasing and consumption of meat and dairy products as the participation in and support, of that which can be defined as evil.
 
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If we define evil in a non-theological sense we could say that it's: deliberate and unnecessary harm caused for some form of gratification. In which case, we would have to regard the purchasing and consumption of meat and dairy products as the participation in and support, of that which can be defined as evil.
I'm not sure. Purchasing and consuming meat when other equally good foods are available in abundance can certainly be considered immoral, but for something to be considered truly evil I think there also has to be an intention of doing harm. When someone is purchasing and consuming meat, the suffering and death of the animals are merely undesired, although unavoidable consequences of the process. If it were possible to produce meat or other animal products entirely without suffering, then I'm sure the vast majority of consumers wouldn't object to that.
 
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I'm not sure. Purchasing and consuming meat when other equally good foods are available in abundance can certainly be considered immoral, but for something to be considered truly evil I think there also has to be an intention of doing harm. When someone is purchasing and consuming meat, the suffering and death of the animals are merely undesired, although unavoidable consequences of the process. If it were possible to produce meat or other animal products entirely without suffering, then I'm sure the vast majority of consumers wouldn't object to that.
Yeah, the traditional definition of evil has to do with a systemic breakdown of ones morals and intent. Usually in an act to gain power or resources at the significant detriment of someone's life or wellbeing. There are arguments out there on the definition of evil also including doing evil acts without conscious intent to do harm. The lines get blurry when trying to say something is objectively one way or not. Most of eating and buying meat is tied to a right of passage and for tribal acceptance in many places. You'll most-likely hear defensiveness if you call someone who eats meat an evil person. They might be convinced that they are doing something positive.. either for mouth pleasure or nutritional benefit. Hitler on the other hand may have been less inclined to disagree with the definition of evil being applied to his massacre of human's. Maybe he was still convinced of "doing the right thing". Definitions themselves are often changed or don't follow an algorithm for which no one can dispute the variables or application.
 
Some good points here but the definition I gave doesn't try to make out that someone who consumes meat and dairy is evil, just that they support and participate in evil. Also, necessity is a key word. We can't say that an indigenous tribe are evil for hunting and eating meat if it's their only means of survival, the definition only applies if it's unnecessary. And yes, there is no intention to do harm when purchasing meat and dairy, there's no need as the harm has already been done. The same principle could also be applied to those who helped the Nazis in their ethnic cleansing, but never actually carried out the harm themselves.
 
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Some good points here but the definition I gave doesn't try to make out that someone who consumes meat and dairy is evil, just that they support and participate in evil. Also, necessity is a key word. We can't say that an indigenous tribe are evil for hunting and eating meat if it's their only means of survival, the definition only applies if it's unnecessary. And yes, there is no intention to do harm when purchasing meat and dairy, there's no need as the harm has already been done. The same principle could also be applied to those who helped the Nazis in their ethnic cleansing, but never actually carried out the harm themselves.
"Tribal Acceptance" in the sense of that if you call out any American there are norms that they attach to their sense of community around killing, hunting, purchasing meat. If you describe a scenario of the suffering of someone's dog and mention the pain that they are in being a bad thing.. it might reach someone far more effectively than questioning their morality when it comes to their eating habits. Especially when the entire culture supports their decisions. Anyone who does not fit in with the "tribe" is labeled as an outcast. This is the aspect of human psychology I'm referring to.

"Dissolve ignorance slowly around the edges" - Guru Singh

"Humans evolved in the context of intense intergroup competition, and groups comprised of loyal
members more often succeeded than those that were not. Therefore, selective pressures have
consistently sculpted human minds to be "tribal," and group loyalty and concomitant cognitive
biases likely exist in all groups."

(PDF) Tribalism Is Human Nature
 
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"Tribal Acceptance" in the sense of that if you call out any American there are norms that they attach to their sense of community around killing, hunting, purchasing meat. If you describe a scenario of the suffering of someone's dog and mention the pain that they are in being a bad thing.. it might reach someone far more effectively than questioning their morality when it comes to their eating habits. Especially when the entire culture supports their decisions. Anyone who does not fit in with the "tribe" is labeled as an outcast. This is the aspect of human psychology I'm referring to.

"Dissolve ignorance slowly around the edges" - Guru Singh

"Humans evolved in the context of intense intergroup competition, and groups comprised of loyal
members more often succeeded than those that were not. Therefore, selective pressures have
consistently sculpted human minds to be "tribal," and group loyalty and concomitant cognitive
biases likely exist in all groups."

(PDF) Tribalism Is Human Nature
I agree, but the definition is not an attempt to change, just to make a statement of what may be a fact. Tribal instincts and psychology are no excuse for evil. Sometimes we need to call something out for what it is. Would we have a calm, unemotive and rational debate with those who support and perhaps participate in bullfighting for example? No, I don't think we would because it's barbaric and no cultural/tribal excuse would stand up to the scrutiny of any decent human being. The problem with meat and dairy consumption is that most humans do it, which makes it seemingly normal, rather like religion for example. If only the minority believed in a supernatural being called God we'd say they were delusional, as religion does seem very much like a psychiatric disorder. However, as so many people believe in the same thing (or something similar) we can't call it out for what it actually is, instead we make excuses for it, like: "belief" "culture" and "tribalism." But yes, I would agree with solving ignorance slowly around the edges, but can we really say that carnism is ignorance in this day and age? In some cases certainly, but in the majority I think we're looking at something far more fitting to a lack of empathy and compassion, cognitive dissonance and a willingness to let others suffer purely for their own gratification. Selective pressures have consistently sculpted humans minds to be "tribal," the Nazis could not have done what they did if this were not the case, but we see that as evil, without excuses, because the atrocities were inflicted on our own species.
 
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I disagree with this because it depends upon intent. All creatures, ourselves included, are hardwired to seek the food that we enjoy. Every instinct in us longs for it. A diet that isn't enjoyable isn't sustainable. I spent many decades wanting to be just vegetarian but not being able to sustain a vegetarian diet and going back to eating meat. Is this because I was evil? When I became vegan, did I suddenly become good overnight? Should we define weakness as evil and essentially condemn everybody who cannot live up to even their own principles 100%? Isn't that the very definition of self-righteousness?
 
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