TV & Film Doctor Who (Spoilers!)
- Thread starter RabbitLuvr
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FortyTwo
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Edited my post for elaboration while you were posting at the same time, I think.
I'm not defending Moffat in any way of course. There are times when he writes great episodes full of complexity and there are other times when he just plain stops caring about the social implications of his characters and storylines. But most shows are full of stupid things, little remarks that are way behind and that **** me off. And remember, the old show had its fair share of sexism and rudeness. Remember when Rose called Nine gay for being afraid of her mother slapping him? That's not exactly progressive.
What I'm saying is that although Moffat should probably get out of there as quick as possible before he embarrasses himself further, I can't pretend not to enjoy a show I enjoy, even with all its faults.
Renee1
Rawry
Certainly wasn't perfect and was full of microagressions, but I believe Eleven is beyond redemption as a character, completely separate from anything related to sexism, racism or homophobia.
FortyTwo
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I'm curious to know why you feel that way. I always thought he was annoying at the beginning but I've come to like him.
Renee1
Rawry
His more irritating qualities didn't have to ruin him, but because of where the show went, they did. Again, none are Matt Smith's fault, rather they are the fault of the man who does not understand the character (or any character) and who cannot write a cohesive story to save his life.
He is a liar. About things that he need not lie about. In The Girl Who Waited (which I actually enjoyed up until the moment where my heart gave up on the show) he lies to old Amy. My doctor would never have lied and sacrificed old Amy to save young ("his") Amy. He would have figured out another way. It was disgusting. He's unfaithful to River, emotionally. I have no affection for River, but it is unacceptable, because it has been shoved down my throat that he has affection for her.
He is inconsiderate. He is selfish. Self-interested beyond belief. He may sulk and stomp his feet about how much he hates himself. He may wallow in his self-absorbed and immature shame, but none of his actions match the moments of angst.
He yells all.the.effing.time. It is not effective when a character does it all the time. It's not scary or a sign something is really wrong (like with previous incarnations) when he loses control, it's just what he does in every situation. Mystique gone.
Related to above, but really quite important, he is downright emotionally abusive to his companions now. Toys with Amy. His companions were never play-things before, but now I can't see them as anything else because that is the way The Doctor frames them.
Aside from a brief flash or two of things that happen to 9 & 10 - GONE. This makes him shallow. His character ostensibly forgot everything that happened to him before. When he regenerates, a new Doctor is expected - a Doctor who has highlights of the old person. He should be the antidote to rampant cynicism. He is damaged but good. What defines his goodness varies, but it should always shine through.
All of this (and more but I digress) creates an chasm which makes it impossible for me to connect to him, or his companions, in any way.
FortyTwo
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Huh. All very legitimate points, some of which I've never even thought about.
The Girl Who Waited was one of the episodes that ****** me off quite a bit. Doctor Who traditionally deals with really difficult ethical situations and in this case I just felt it didn't do it right.
Unfaithfulness is one of the downsides to the introduction of Clara's character, because occasionally Eleven acts like he is romantically attached to her when he really should not be.
The Girl Who Waited was one of the episodes that ****** me off quite a bit. Doctor Who traditionally deals with really difficult ethical situations and in this case I just felt it didn't do it right.
Unfaithfulness is one of the downsides to the introduction of Clara's character, because occasionally Eleven acts like he is romantically attached to her when he really should not be.
FortyTwo
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SuicideBlonde
Adorkable rockstar!
FortyTwo
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People are freaking out. They're crazy. The role of the Doctor was born as a grandfatherly sort of part, with an old man as the star. Who cares if the Doctor's not young and hot? Seriously, that coming from me is kind-of a big deal.
Of course, people are also mad that the Doctor is not a woman, and I'm a little annoyed they still haven't taken that route. Maybe after Moffat leaves eventually.
Of course, people are also mad that the Doctor is not a woman, and I'm a little annoyed they still haven't taken that route. Maybe after Moffat leaves eventually.
kibbleforlola
Lola Worshiper
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FortyTwo
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I was kinda hoping he'd leave when Matt left, but I guess no dice.
Sigh. Another few seasons of annoyance with the occasional brilliant idea, I guess.
Sigh. Another few seasons of annoyance with the occasional brilliant idea, I guess.
sleepydvdr
Forum Legend
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The Doctor always has to be a male, in my opinion. I think of the Dr Who role on the same level as 007. How could we have a female 007 agent? And he has to be well mannered and British. No Yankee dudes saying "what up, bro?".
Also, then the standard role of having a beautiful female companion would have to be re-analyzed. Would switch to a beautiful male companion? Or would it still be a female companion with lesbian overtones? Or still a female companion and somehow they were just BFFs?
The show's formula has worked for decades. I think gender bending this one would be disastrous to the show.
OP
OP
Blobbenstein
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Blobbenstein
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FortyTwo
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Exactly. We've seen in the past that Gallifreyans can and often do change gender with regenerations. Hell, Eleven's annoyance with the fact that he didn't have ginger hair, a mark of the near-omnipotent higher-class Time Lords, means that regeneration can even change your social standing and essentially give you superpowers. Having a female Doctor is nowhere near an impossibility.
Hell, Steven friggin' MOFFAT acknowledged that it was a possibility. I don't see how you can really argue with that, considering he'd be pretty much the last person I'd expect to say it.
FortyTwo
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Oh, and most people agree that James Bond isn't actually a single person (at least within the movie timelines), but rather an alias passed down from generation to generation. I could see a Jane Bond or something happening, but that would probably get panned because of this sort of attitude.
The Doctor has had plenty of non-romantic companions, both male and female. In fact, he rarely becomes involved with them. The original archetype was for an assistant, remember, even more disconnected than the roles we see today. Having Nine and Ten pair up with Rose was actually a pretty bold move, even though romances had been pulled before.
But Doctor Who has always been about taking risks. When they changed from Hartnell to Troughton they had no idea whether it would work or not. It was completely unprecedented. Same when they switched the focus from almost all history to mostly science fiction scenarios. And when they added K-9 (who I've always thought was pretty dumb but his massive fanbase says otherwise). And when they had the Doctor commit genocide. And pretty much every time they redo the TARDIS, or the Daleks. And when they had younger actors play the Doctor than had been done before, and now again that they're switching back to an older man.
I know I might be obsessing a bit but I don't see the logic to go against a female Doctor.
Kittendumpling
Crafty Wino
I am looking forward to Peter Capaldi as The Doctor. It might put an end to the irritating and endless mooning the recent companions have done.
I only wish he'd play it like Malcolm Tucker.
I only wish he'd play it like Malcolm Tucker.
Kittendumpling
Crafty Wino
I think Capaldi is kinda cute.
I agree. He's very distinguished.
