US Controversy over canceled sex talk at hacker convention

[das_nut]

The topic is not about the ins and outs of sex, which might have its uses, it is about having sex while intoxicated by all sorts of things, kind of a strange topic for a hacker conference.

According to the information I found, she also talked about sex and caffeine. So it seems she was covering the most commonly used drugs (legal and illegal).

Also I am not really a huge Dan Savage fan. I think he has his heart in the right place but his writing style is a bit hardcore for my sensibilities. So I would not go to one of his lectures, at university or otherwise.

I'm fond of Dan Savage, although I'll admit I'm a tad conservative in the sex department, at least according to his norm. But even though I'm probably far more vanilla than Dan Savage's target audience (hey, vanilla is plenty of fun), I can support his GGG, and his Safe, Sane, Consensual advocation.

The only thing that offends me about Dan Savage is his stance on pit bulls. They are amazing dogs, at least the ones I have known, and I don't think a breed should be condemned just because the scum of the earth gravitates towards them.

To go back on the topic of Violet Blue, I think some of the things she talks about makes sense. In one of her talks she mentions a question she got from a woman, about her boyfriend's semen on her leg, wondering if she could become pregnant, It's pretty sad that in this day and age, in a western country, a person could be so naive about sex to ask that question

 

[das_nut]

This talks about some women's experiences at hacker conventions.
http://m.blogher.com/defcon-why-conference-harassment-matters

As someone who has attended a few hacker cons, I must give this advice to anyone feeling threatened by another members actions: Please go to either the security team or the conference organizers.

There's a few creepers in every crowd (sadly enough). But most hackers will realize there's a problem, and they are amazingly broad-minded and tolerant folks. The stereotype of hackers being basement dwellers who view women only as sexual objects is just that - a stereotype.

To give some background on this, one of the cons I went to had someones boyfriend attending. The boyfriend was on the level of Ru Paul-flamboyant. (Yes, the hacker was gay, no, that's not so exceptional). Nobody at the con had any issues with it, and I strongly suspect that anyone who displayed any outwardly homophobic behavior would be condemned. It's just that sort of thing.

Having been around a few hackers in my time (hey, they hold a good conversation), most would strongly condemn judging a person based on biology. The outrage against the B-Sides cancellation isn't due to the idea that women d0n't face systematic discrimination in this society. Instead, such outrage tends to stem from the belief that withholding of information (good or bad) is a problem.

There's a quote (from a video game, LOLs, totally hackerish) that I'm reminded of, and that explains a lot of hackers' position on the topic: "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. "

 

[Freesia]

There's a quote (from a video game, LOLs, totally hackerish) that I'm reminded of, and that explains a lot of hackers' position on the topic: "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. "

Maybe, but it is a small sacrifice to make to create a less creepy, more safe culture for women at conferences. Im sure people will get over not receiving the "information" that was in that speech.

 

[ledboots]

This talks about some women's experiences at hacker conventions.
http://m.blogher.com/defcon-why-conference-harassment-matters

As someone who has attended a few hacker cons, I must give this advice to anyone feeling threatened by another members actions: Please go to either the security team or the conference organizers.

There's a few creepers in every crowd (sadly enough). But most hackers will realize there's a problem, and they are amazingly broad-minded and tolerant folks. The stereotype of hackers being basement dwellers who view women only as sexual objects is just that - a stereotype.

To give some background on this, one of the cons I went to had someones boyfriend attending. The boyfriend was on the level of Ru Paul-flamboyant. (Yes, the hacker was gay, no, that's not so exceptional). Nobody at the con had any issues with it, and I strongly suspect that anyone who displayed any outwardly homophobic behavior would be condemned. It's just that sort of thing.

Having been around a few hackers in my time (hey, they hold a good conversation), most would strongly condemn judging a person based on biology. The outrage against the B-Sides cancellation isn't due to the idea that women d0n't face systematic discrimination in this society. Instead, such outrage tends to stem from the belief that withholding of information (good or bad) is a problem.

There's a quote (from a video game, LOLs, totally hackerish) that I'm reminded of, and that explains a lot of hackers' position on the topic: "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. "

Well, the speech that she was going to give is online , so luckily the people who were denied the information can click on the video.

 

[yally]

I'm so confused! I would like to see the speech before making any judgements.

 

[Snowcone]

I'm so confused! I would like to see the speech before making any judgements.

I agree. The two sides of this argument seem to be represent Violet Blue as either some sort of raging pornographic monstrosity simulating sex on stage in preparation for seventeen recorded orgies afterwards, in which she screams debasing things about all womenkind in between banshee-wailing fake orgasms, or championing her as Athena herself imparting divine knowledge upon those lucky enough to be within earshot of the glittering golden sound waves.

 

[das_nut]

Maybe, but it is a small sacrifice to make to create a less creepy, more safe culture for women at conferences. Im sure people will get over not receiving the "information" that was in that speech.

Does this also apply to sex education in schools? We wouldn't want to make a sexually-charged environment. After all, if kids want to know about sex, they can always find the information from somewhere else.

I'm so confused! I would like to see the speech before making any judgements.

I linked to a different speech she gave about sex and technology, but it appears that nobody wants to even hear an example of the type of talks she gives. Instead, there's a rush to judgment.

 

[Pickle Juice]

I'm so confused! I would like to see the speech before making any judgements.

I agree. The two sides of this argument seem to be represent Violet Blue as either some sort of raging pornographic monstrosity simulating sex on stage in preparation for seventeen recorded orgies afterwards, in which she screams debasing things about all womenkind in between banshee-wailing fake orgasms, or championing her as Athena herself imparting divine knowledge upon those lucky enough to be within earshot of the glittering golden sound waves.

At last, someone who GETS it.

 

[yally]

I'm so confused! I would like to see the speech before making any judgements.

I linked to a different speech she gave about sex and technology, but it appears that nobody wants to even hear an example of the type of talks she gives. Instead, there's a rush to judgment.

Oh yeah, forgot about that. Skim watched it. It's interesting, brilliant to hear someone talk articulately about sex and porn.

I knew there was a reason Fleshbot didn't ick me out the way most porn sites do. Even though the videos themselves just make me sad (I just don't like porn, usually because no one ever seems to be enjoying themselves).

 

[Pickle Juice]

Instead, there's a rush to judgment.

Funny how it's never a rush to judgment unless it's something you don't agree with.

 

[Freesia]

Maybe, but it is a small sacrifice to make to create a less creepy, more safe culture for women at conferences. Im sure people will get over not receiving the "information" that was in that speech.

Does this also apply to sex education in schools? We wouldn't want to make a sexually-charged environment. After all, if kids want to know about sex, they can always find the information from somewhere else.

I'm so confused! I would like to see the speech before making any judgements.

I linked to a different speech she gave about sex and technology, but it appears that nobody wants to even hear an example of the type of talks she gives. Instead, there's a rush to judgment.

Again as I said before, if a small amount of women were at a school which was 80% male, they may well feel threatened by certain types of discussions.

I dont see Violet Blue as some kind of sleazy porn queen. I just dont see the point of this particular topic, especially in this kind of setting, where there was been a history of sexual harrassment for women who go to those places.

 

[kibbleforlola]

So, I've only skimmed the thread, but I have a few disjointed thoughts rattling 'round the ol' brain pan. Here they are in no particular order.

-Hackers regularly do things that are questionable both legally and morally. Most hackers are male. Would their attitude towards flaunting the rules, so to speak, bleed over into their sexual activities?
-Sex educators: I've seen great sex educators (like Laci Green, look her up on youtube if you want a dose of feminist sex and body positivity), but I've also seen "educators" that seem to be more about titillation than actual education. I have no idea where Violet Blue falls on this scale.
-Drugs: we've probably all had sex on drugs, be it too many glasses of wine, or recreational use of viagra, or whatever. The key is consent - before having your brain idled by drugs. Are the people likely to attend this talk likely to spend time thinking about the complexities of consent?
-One poster upthread said that drugs and fuzzy handcuffs said coercion to her, while another said it said light consensual bondage to him. This to me, seems to speak to male privilege, and the fact that women are in a constant state of "yes" unless they clearly and verbally say "no" - and even then, some times they're seen as just being coy. Is this talk going to teach these men to acknowledge their privilege, and pay attention to their partners verbal/nonverbal cues, or will it just teach them how to get what they want via drugs?

 

[Moll Flanders]

I agree. The two sides of this argument seem to be represent Violet Blue as either some sort of raging pornographic monstrosity simulating sex on stage in preparation for seventeen recorded orgies afterwards, in which she screams debasing things about all womenkind in between banshee-wailing fake orgasms, or championing her as Athena herself imparting divine knowledge upon those lucky enough to be within earshot of the glittering golden sound waves.

I'm a bit perplexed too as I didn't even understand what a hacker conference was until my husband tried to explain it to me.

I probably would find a talk about drugs and sex interesting as I've had to attend drugs conferences for work but it was never related to drugs and sexual experiences. I can't say whether this type of talk would be appropriate at a hacker convention.

 

[ledboots]

I have to find the site that has the actual speech Violet was going to give, and it also has the other topics listed that were presented at the conference. Hers was the only topic that was unrelated to technology. I didn't bookmark it.

Anyway, I'm not demonizing the hackers or Violet, but I'm curious to know how many other presenters at the conference were females.

I attended a boarding school in the first year that girls were admitted. It had been a boys' prep for decades (my dad went there.) Many of my classes had only 2 or 3 girls in them in the first couple of years at school. It was very uncomfortable for me and the other girls when a topic became sexualized. I think it was especially bad because there would be 20 boys, a male professor, and 3 girls in the classroom.

 

[Spang]

Is this it?

I haven't watched it yet.

 

[ledboots]

No it had the same title as the canceled conference one. I'm going to look in my ridiculous browser history

 

[Spang]

According to this site, that was the lecture she was going to give.

 

[mlp]

Again as I said before, if a small amount of women were at a school which was 80% male, they may well feel threatened by certain types of discussions.

I dont see Violet Blue as some kind of sleazy porn queen. I just dont see the point of this particular topic, especially in this kind of setting, where there was been a history of sexual harrassment for women who go to those places.

I attended a boarding school in the first year that girls were admitted. It had been a boys' prep for decades (my dad went there.) Many of my classes had only 2 or 3 girls in them in the first couple of years at school. It was very uncomfortable for me and the other girls when a topic became sexualized. I think it was especially bad because there would be 20 boys, a male professor, and 3 girls in the classroom.

I don't think that a *professional* conference is where you should get educated about sexual matters, unless it happens to be a conference for sex workers or something similar. If adults don't, in this day and age, know the basics (as in the story about the woman worried about getting pregnant from semen on her leg), they have bigger problems than can be addressed at a hacker conference. (I would think that hackers in particular would be able to figure out how to get that information?)

Having *grown up* in a profession that was predominantly male at the time I entered it, and having lived in an atmosphere where female colleagues were pinched on their asses at firm functions, groped in cars headed to business meetings, etc., and office staff were even more vulnerable, I see absolutely no "need" and a great deal of potential harm coming from sexualizing an atmosphere where the attendees are primarily male.

I'm surprised that this is even a subject of contention. I shouldn't be, but I am. I guess I need to adjust my thinking - I thought men had come a little bit further in their awareness.

 

[ledboots]

According to this site, that was the lecture she was going to give.

For some reason, after the controversy and it was already canceled, someone changed the talk name and description. The original schedule of events is on this site (scroll way down past the sponsors) and you will see her name and her subject (sex +/- drugs etc). It is at 2pm in Track A of the conference. I can't copy paste bc it is a chart. http://www.securitybsides.com/w/page/35868077/BSidesSanFrancisco

 

[Spang]

According to this site, that was the lecture she was going to give.

For some reason, after the controversy and it was already canceled, someone changed the talk name and description. The original schedule of events is on this site (scroll way down past the sponsors) and you will see her name and her subject (sex +/- drugs etc).

The article I linked to mentions the same 'sex +/- drugs: known vulns and exploits' title. Then ends with:

Hackers who wanted to hear Blue's talk are in luck—the version of the talk which she presented at 29c3 is available on YouTube—hopefully without date rape instructions.

And the YouTube video in post #55.