Conspiracy theories are dangerous & should not be tolerated.

[Nekodaiden]

The issue with conspiracy theories is that they aren't based on facts / science.

Flat Earth theory is easily and factually disproved, and you don't have to rely on 'faked' photos from space. In Dubai, there is a building so tall that you can actually see the sun set twice the same day. The science indicates that this is because the earth is in fact a sphere.

Two sunsets - one day

That said, I do appreciate the imaginations of conspiracy theorists. They should take all that creative energy and write fiction novels. Everybody wins.

All you are describing is perspective, and anyone can test this. Take a coin and a flat surface (like a table). Place your eye (or better yet, a fixed video camera - so it doesn't move up or down) right at the level of the flat surface. Move the coin from very close to your eye/camera to further and further away. The bottom disappears first. Far enough away and the coin itself will completely disappear. Obviously moving your eye (or the camera) upwards makes the whole coin visible again, even at the greater distance where it was previously not visible.

Similarly, if you are in Dubai at that building at ground level, you can see the sun "set" , and then travel up the building to see it set again. No need for a curved surface to be present.

 

[Dedalus]

All you are describing is perspective, and anyone can test this. Take a coin and a flat surface (like a table). Place your eye (or better yet, a fixed video camera - so it doesn't move up or down) right at the level of the flat surface. Move the coin from very close to your eye/camera to further and further away. The bottom disappears first. Far enough away and the coin itself will completely disappear. Obviously moving your eye (or the camera) upwards makes the whole coin visible again, even at the greater distance where it was previously not visible.

Similarly, if you are in Dubai at that building at ground level, you can see the sun "set" , and then travel up the building to see it set again. No need for a curved surface to be present.

Incorrect. Providing you had a telescope / camera with a powerful enough lens, the coin would never disappear on a flat surface.

 

[Lou]

How a 5G Coronavirus Conspiracy Theory Fueled Arson and Harassment in Britain - The New York Times

 

[Nekodaiden]

Incorrect. Providing you had a telescope / camera with a powerful enough lens, the coin would never disappear on a flat surface.

Perhaps you can tell me where I can buy such a telescope for a practical demonstration on a flat surface that exceeds the telescope's power to reach (and where such surface contains no valleys or peaks to hinder the observation itself). In any case I think you are using a circular argument based on the assumption of an overall curve over long distances. That's not science mate.

 

[Nekodaiden]

How a 5G Coronavirus Conspiracy Theory Fueled Arson and Harassment in Britain - The New York Times

I love how the nytimes just happens to know the exact mindset of anyone who attacks a tower/rely point etc related to 5g. I mean, none of these people might actually believe the tech is dangerous irrespective of it's connections (tenuous or not) to coronavirus or anything.

 

[Dedalus]

Perhaps you can tell me where I can buy such a telescope for a practical demonstration on a flat surface that exceeds the telescope's power to reach (and where such surface contains no valleys or peaks to hinder the observation itself). In any case I think you are using a circular argument based on the assumption of an overall curve over long distances. That's not science mate.

Circular argument’ LOL, yes. That’s exactly what I’m using. I hope you intended that pun.

Also - ‘Not science, mate’ represents the entirety of the Flat Earth hypotheses. Science has already provided the facts, Flat Earther’s just refuse to believe them.

But let’s play along. You presented a simple exercise one could perform in their own house, to account for the fact that one is able to see two sunsets in Dubai. The problem, (and this is the problem with all Flat Earther’s) is you clearly didn’t test your own hypothesis. Performing your exercise, one will see, even with very ordinary eyes, the coin - top to bottom as clearly on the furthest side of the longest table in their house as when it is at its closest focal point to the eye. It will, of course, be smaller because of it being farther away, but it will still be entirely visible. No part of it will ‘disappear.’ This ‘practical demonstration’ is not only not practical, but it does not result in the outcome you claim.

Now, then: explain why the shadow on the moon in a lunar eclipse is curved. Go!

Just kidding. Don’t do that.

 

[Nekodaiden]

Circular argument’ LOL, yes. That’s exactly what I’m using. I hope you intended that pun.

Also - ‘Not science, mate’ represents the entirety of the Flat Earth hypotheses. Science has already provided the facts, Flat Earther’s just refuse to believe them.

Would that be like the "science" NASA gives us that shows us earth from the same distance in space with wildly different size continents?

But let’s play along. You presented a simple exercise one could perform in their own house, to account for the fact that one is able to see two sunsets in Dubai. The problem, (and this is the problem with all Flat Earther’s) is you clearly didn’t test your own hypothesis. Performing your exercise, one will see, even with very ordinary eyes, the coin - top to bottom as clearly on the furthest side of the longest table in their house as when it is at its closest focal point to the eye. It will, of course, be smaller because of it being farther away, but it will still be entirely visible. No part of it will ‘disappear.’ This ‘practical demonstration’ is not only not practical, but it does not result in the outcome you claim.

Of course I tested it. I said you have to put your eye at the level of the table. That is, just at the surface, looking across. This is important. Not above the table, or looking down. The tendency to move (your head up) will also be present, which is why I suggested using a fixed video camera at the level of the table (NOT above it).

Take a look at the following image (looking from ABOVE the tracks at a small height):

Are the railroad tracks forming a triangle towards the vanishing point, or are they straight and what is seen is your perspective?

Are the light poles gradually getting shorter along the right side or is this a result of your perspective?

An oncoming train would start to be visible just "below" the vanishing point. Raising the vantage point up (the height above the tracks) changes the vanishing point and would allow someone to see an oncoming train from further away. Likewise, lowering yourself down to the level of the tracks (such as lying on one's stomach with their chin on the tracks and looking forward) pulls the vanishing point closer to the observer and thus reduces the ability to see the train. The part that will be seen first is the upper parts of the train, and the lower will only become visible as the train gets closer.

Several examples of this are illustrated in this video*

*Note: Youtube videos on the flat earth topic (quality ones, from flat earthers) cannot be found by searching "flat earth" on it's search engine. They have manipulated their search results only to return really bad FE videos or videos "debunking" flat earth. Almost nothing of real quality from an FE leaning can be found in this way.

 

[beforewisdom]

FYI, Freedom of speech only applies to public property.

Web sites are privately owned.

I've been using the Internet before GUIs were invented. I have seen a lot of the same ideas expressed over and over again.

It sounds harsh, and I mean no disrespect, but not every goofball's pet conspiracy theory is worth being heard or even original. It is also not worth risking the quality of the site over. Web board are dying. If people get disgusted by what they see they can just go to social media and control their experience.

 

[Dedalus]

Of course I tested it. I said you have to put your eye at the level of the table. That is, just at the surface, looking across. This is important. Not above the table, or looking down. The tendency to move (your head up) will also be present, which is why I suggested using a fixed video camera at the level of the table (NOT above it).

Feel free to post your results. You can see the penny just fine - top to bottom across a lengthy table. I even marked the bottom edge with a red sharpie. In the first photo, you can see the lines of the table narrowing in perspective, just like your train track illustration. And yet, the penny is wholly visible.

 

[Nekodaiden]

Feel free to post your results. You can see the penny just fine - top to bottom across a lengthy table. I even marked the bottom edge with a red sharpie. In the first photo, you can see the lines of the table narrowing in perspective, just like your train track illustration. And yet, the penny is wholly visible.

In each one of your photos the table top does not represent the horizon. The horizon is the point one sees looking straight ahead, we don't look *down* on it. In order to see the coin's bottom disappear your eye has to be positioned at the point where the table top is the horizon itself, looking straight ahead.

The photos you posted are of a similar vantage point to the image I posted of the train tracks and poles. Up to the vanishing point, the tracks and poles are visible. If there were a sun in the image, it too would be visible until it started to cross the vanishing point (or some other object reaching above that point, such as a mountain).

 

[Nekodaiden]

FYI, Freedom of speech only applies to public property.

Web sites are privately owned.

I've been using the Internet before GUIs were invented. I have seen a lot of the same ideas expressed over and over again.

It sounds harsh, and I mean no disrespect, but not every goofball's pet conspiracy theory is worth being heard or even original. It is also not worth risking the quality of the site over. Web board are dying. If people get disgusted by what they see they can just go to social media and control their experience.

So why are you still here, and reading this thread? It's your choice to read this thread on a subject you despise when you could be viewing other threads. And yet, you're here. You have a choice to read this thread or not just like you have a choice to visit social media pages you like or not. FB, for instance, has all kinds of people that are into things you are disgusted by (up to, and including both the flat earth topic, 911 and other things you'd rather not see), and it hasn't "died" yet.

 

[beancounter]

At first, I was concerned that my thread had been hijacked.

But thanks to Nekodaiden's tireless effort, my OP has been validated.

 

[Nekodaiden]

@Dedalus

I did this this morning. Completely unedited video. As you can see I am using the table to represent the horizon at eye, or as close to eye level as I could get it just holding the camera with my hand. The countertop/table is useful in this kind of demonstration because it is flat, and therefore can represent line of sight looking forward toward the horizon. The "ground" (or whatever else falls under the horizon) is under the horizon. People often mistake the flat surface of the table or other flat surface itself as the ground in such demonstrations, so I hope I have cleared this up here.

 

[Dedalus]

Aside from the overall blurred video, your camera lens angle moves up and down from the edge of the table, to just below it, so that when the coin moves away, the table edge blocks the view. Your camera is not in a ‘fixed’ position, as required by the parameters of your own your exercise.

 

[Nekodaiden]

Aside from the overall blurred video, your camera lens angle moves up and down from the edge of the table, to just below it, so that when the coin moves away, the table edge blocks the view. Your camera is not in a ‘fixed’ position, as required by the parameters of your own your exercise.

I trust people who actually watch the crude representation get the drift of what I'm talking about, and the camera doesn't move while I moved the coin each time, but yes I did adjust between coin moves to get all of the coin from start position. The difference between your photos and my video is a simple misunderstanding, I think. The flat surface doesn't represent the ground, it represents the horizon. When one looks at a sunset one is either looking at horizon level (say - at a beach), or looking above the horizon level (like if there is an obstruction above the horizon). Whether it be a sunset/sunrise the sinking/rising level of ships on the ocean, poles on a railway track "sinking" into the distance - none of it is due to some overall curve of the earth, it is due to perspective and how our vision works.

 

[Mischief]

Are the other planets in our solar system also flat, or is the Earth the only flat one?

What about the sun? Is it flat also? What about the moon?

Does the Earth orbit the sun, or does the sun orbit the Earth? How does that work if one or both are flat?

inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Nekodaiden]

Are the other planets in our solar system also flat, or is the Earth the only flat one?

What about the sun? Is it flat also? What about the moon?

Does the Earth orbit the sun, or does the sun orbit the Earth? How does that work if one or both are flat?

inquiring minds want to know.

Common flat earth beliefs include:

The earth is flat and stationary. It does not "orbit" the sun or anything else.
The so called "planets" are the wandering stars
There is no "space" - the stars are attached to the firmament.
The sun moon and stars orbit the earth
The moon does not "reflect" the sun, rather it gives it's own light.
Gravity does not exist - rather the principles of buoyancy and density primarily account
for the natural up or down movement of objects in a given medium.
Something other than the moon causes the tides.
The pictures and video we have of space are fabrications.



Flat earth beliefs also (sometimes) include a map and model. However, there is disagreement as to which one (or any)
best represents it. When I came to the movement as an investigator I received a lot of information, much of which I found
compelling. I was also introduced to the circular or Azimuthal Equidistant map (AE map for short), which, for various reasons
I had to reject as elements of it did not internally work or conflicted with measurable reality, or with what I could observe. At this point I remain a flat earther without a model I can prove.

 

[Mischief]

Common flat earth beliefs include:

The earth is flat and stationary. It does not "orbit" the sun or anything else.
The so called "planets" are the wandering stars
There is no "space" - the stars are attached to the firmament.
The sun moon and stars orbit the earth
The moon does not "reflect" the sun, rather it gives it's own light.
Gravity does not exist - rather the principles of buoyancy and density primarily account
for the natural up or down movement of objects in a given medium.
Something other than the moon causes the tides.
The pictures and video we have of space are fabrications.



Flat earth beliefs also (sometimes) include a map and model. However, there is disagreement as to which one (or any)
best represents it. When I came to the movement as an investigator I received a lot of information, much of which I found
compelling. I was also introduced to the circular or Azimuthal Equidistant map (AE map for short), which, for various reasons
I had to reject as elements of it did not internally work or conflicted with measurable reality, or with what I could observe. At this point I remain a flat earther without a model I can prove.

Cool.

So, whatever the shape the Earth is, whether round or oval or square or rectangular or triangular or some odd amoeba-like shape, the sun orbits it in such a way that it comes up over the edge in the morning (we can call that side "east" for the sake of convenience), travels across the plane of the Earth, and then goes down beyond the edge which is roughly opposite the east side (let's call that the "west" side). Is that correct?

 

[Nekodaiden]

Cool.

So, whatever the shape the Earth is, whether round or oval or square or rectangular or triangular or some odd amoeba-like shape, the sun orbits it in such a way that it comes up over the edge in the morning (we can call that side "east" for the sake of convenience), travels across the plane of the Earth, and then goes down beyond the edge which is roughly opposite the east side (let's call that the "west" side). Is that correct?

To speak generally, yes, from the east, but varying NE-SE depending on time of year and setting NW-SW depending on time of year. This is something everyone can visibly observe for themselves without needing to reference some authority.

 

[Mischief]

To speak generally, yes, from the east, but varying NE-SE depending on time of year and setting NW-SW depending on time of year. This is something everyone can visibly observe for themselves without needing to reference some authority.

So, if the Earth is flat, how is it that when it's midnight and very much dark in Missouri, it's a bright sunshiney early afternoon in Sydney, Australia?