Coconut oil and oil in general

new vegan

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I'm a huge fan of Dr. Esselstyn. I'm also a fan of many of the pioneers that came after him.

I'm kind of torn regarding "oils". Esselstyn states "NO OIL, not even Olive Oil".. and many others as well.

But we also have another train of pioneers that are saying "Oil is fine as long as it's "virgin" or "cold pressed" and not "processed"..

Any thoughts on this topic?
 

Lou

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I know its complicated. And I am no expert but this is how I see it.
Cold pressed and virgin (especially extra virgin) is better than the alternative. It's the processing. Less processing is better. Just like whole grains are better.

But the less oil you can consume the better.

In economics, there is a rule called the Opportunity Cost or the Alternative Cost. that rule can be applied to nutrition as well. When you have to choose between things, and you choose option #1, you also have to consider the value you are giving up by not choosing option #2.

Oil is just fat and has little or none nutritional value but calories. If you keep the number of calories the same, every 100 calories of oil (about a tablespoon) costs you one of the following.
1 sweet potato
25 strawberries
3 large tomatoes
1 tbsp of Peanut butter
3/4 cup of peas
1 pound of spinach
half a bunch of brocoli
1 glass of soy milk
1 egglant
2 heads of lettuce
1 banana
129 blueberries
1 banana
2 cucumbers
25 baby carrots
1 ear of corn

So by choosing a tablespoon of oil, you are not getting the value of something else you could be eating instead.

As you can imagine, any one of those things has a lot of nutritional value. Protein, carbs, vitamins, minerals, and phytonutrients.

I think Gregar, Fuhrman, and Esselstyn all agree. The cost of oil (nutritionally speaking) is too high.
 

narlycharley

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My wife and I almost never cook with oil, and we feel so much better (physically) not cooking with it. The house doesn't stink when we cook, which is a huge bonus. Sauteing in oil is something we haven't done in years, as we cook all of our veggies with a bit of water in a pan.
 

IGottogetout

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Hello
I am a vegetarian since almost 2 months now. I was kind of "flexitarian" the previous 4 years.

I do not cook with oil either. no fries. on the other hand, I put olive oil, linseed oil and rapeseed oil on my dishes.
I believe that I have a tendency to use a little too much the oils. but I doubt that I'll decide to stop it completely. it doesn't make sense for me.
I can not do without the taste it gives them. I do not use added sugar or salt.
Fatty acids omega 3: linseed oil contains a lot. it gives incredible results on the quality of the skin
olive oil: the taste! rapeseed oil: omegas 3 too
I do not eat butter or dairy products.
I eat oleaginous fruits. avocados

I will look at what Dr. Esselstyn says. I'm interested.
 
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IGottogetout

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The coconut oil is a bad idea, I agree.
But not the others. The omega 3 acids are necessary and beneficial to our health. (that said i don't suffer from any cardiac disease personally)
You find it in some fishes. The smaller are the least contaminated by heavy metals, as mercury. As a vegetarian I don't eat fish. I find omega 3 in linseed oil and rapeseed oil. never cooked, raw and poured on my dishes. The walnuts are good for the cardiovascular health too.
 
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Emma JC

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The coconut oil is a bad idea, I agree.
But not the others. The omega 3 acids are necessary and beneficial to our health. (that said i don't suffer from any cardiac disease personally)
You find it in some fishes. The smaller are the least contaminated by heavy metals, as mercury. As a vegetarian I don't eat fish. I find omega 3 in linseed oil and rapeseed oil. never cooked, raw and poured on my dishes. The walnuts are good for the cardiovascular health too.
Walnuts... there is a difference between whole fats from nuts and from oils poured on our food. Rapeseed oil is not raw, it is an industrialized processed oil using high heat and hexane (google "oil processed rapeseed"). Linseed is sometimes pressed and often solvent extracted. The fibre that was in the original plant is gone along with most of the nutrients.

You can get Omega 3 from many sources.

The research available is extensive.

Emma JC
 

Lou

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Good stuff Emma.
I just read most of your article. It is excellent.
For those of you who haven't read it yet please check it out.
For those of us who have had some "training" in WFPB, its nothing new - but an excellent summary.

the following does not contradict anything you said, but it's worth including in this discussion.

there is no minimum RDA for saturated fats. Our body can manufacture it all by itself. The mRDA of other fats is somewhat debatable. Thanks to people and institutions that are trying to sell us something - the pool of data is a bit murky.

Usually, when we discuss macronutrients requirements we discuss them as a percentage of our daily calories intake.
and the more responsible doctors and researchers put the fat requirement in the low teens. The rest talk about 20 - 35%. But as a general rule until you get into the low teens, the less fat you include in your diet the better.

Just like essential amino acids, there are essential fatty acids (EFAs). ALA is probably the best known of these. But the number of grams of these we need is low enough that just a diet where we eat a few percentages points of "healthy fats" a day meets the most important requirements. Not all the foods we eat contain EFAs. some are harder to find on a Plant-Based diet. That's why you see vegans grinding flax seed and buying Omega 3 supplements - to get those hard to find Omega 3s.

To summarize: we don't' need any oil. The less oil you eat the better. And most of us can very easily and healthily reduce all of the fats we consume.
 

IGottogetout

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Yes Emma, you're certainly right. Thanks for the warning. Of course I only use organic products. (and the price is quite different). Never oils extracted with chemicals, neither warmed oils. Same thing for olive oil. It's the three oils I consume. I live in Paris-France area and it 's easily available.
Actually the olive oil is the only one "non organic" I purchase. I don't buy the cheapest bad products regarding food. this one is not warmed and not treated with chemical although sold in supermarkets, and although non organic the prices raised quite a lot this lats years, in France. I'll check it but I am sure there's no concerns.
By the way I'm half French, half Spaniard, I hope I won't do too many mistakes writing in English. Thanks to understand :)
Pascal
 
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IGottogetout

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hi, I'll had that rapeseed and linseed oils become rancid if they are not placed in the refrigerator. To consume within 3 months I believe for linseed oil, which should not be consumed if it has become rancid because toxic. the dr Suisse Catherine Kousime (she is a woman) spoke about the benefices of taking linkseed at least 30 years ago, or more. When then it wasn't allowed to be be sold in France (because once rancid it's toxic). It has a huge huge amount of omega 3.
I personally take this oil since 2 months, 2 -3 coffee spoons per day, mixed with my vegetables or soup for example. It's sold in small bottles. it's frankly bitter, once mixed it's OK. It's not taken for its taste, contrary to olive oil.
 

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IMHO, you would be better off switching from rapeseed oil to ground flax seed. You can keep flax seed in the cupboard, but after you grind them keep them in the refrigerator. and It's probably best to just grind one or two weeks at a time.

Flaxseed is available as an oil. You can also buy it ground. but I think buying it in bulk at the grocery store and then grinding your own is the best.

A quick comparison of rapeseed oil and flax seed.

-------------------------------------- Rapeseed -------------------------------------- Flaxseed
Amount --------------------------------------1 tbsp --------------------------------------2 tsp
Calories --------------------------------------120 --------------------------------------38
Fiber --------------------------------------0 --------------------------------------1.9
Grams of fat --------------------------------------13 --------------------------------------3
Omega 3 --------------------------------------1.2 (78%) --------------------------------------1.6 (100%)
Omega 6 --------------------------------------2.6 --------------------------------------0.4
Protein --------------------------------------0 --------------------------------------1.3
Micronutrients ---------------------16% E----------------------Small amounts of 12 V&M
 
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IGottogetout

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yes, once again : do not take coconut oil ! I don't!
I consume NON PROCESSED oils of olive, and for their exceptional amount of OMEGA 3 (which is extremely beneficial for our body and mind, especially the the brain who needs omega 3!) linseed oil and rapeseed oil, ORGANIC, with no use of chemicals and no warming during the extraction of course.
PLUS olive oil which doesn't contain much omega 3 acids but which is considered as a good oil too
The result of the two first oils I mentioned above (especially the flax seed oil) is a visible and obvious improvement of the quality of my skin (face, hands) ! it's absolutely amazing! Just try and you'll see by yourself
But warning, be aware that the omega3s get the blood more fluid. Omega3s are anti inflammatory. The opposite of the fats in meat which increase inflammations in the body. Then if you have a cardiac illness and are taking some medications you have too take it into consideration. it can be too much for you
Just search for information about the Omega3s ...

we were posting at the same time
yes flax seed is much more rich in omega 3, but very bitter and much more expensive. Furthermore it gets rancid quickly. you have too get small bottles and to put it in the fridge
but actually it is the oil that I'm mainly taking ( with olive oil) for almost 2 months and the results are spectacular on the quality of the skin
 

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i use that 1 kcal spray don't be anal in moderation is fine you have to live a little
 

IGottogetout

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You think I take too much? OK. I follow the recommendations of people who are supposed to know about the question. The results are effective, my skin got different, clearest.
But may be I take a little too much, I agree. Actually what happens is that, as a vegetarian, sometimes some dishes don't have much taste, then I use oil and pepper to give some more :)

READ ABSOLUTELY THIS, flax-seed oil aka linseed oil : https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/flaxseed-oil-benefits
 
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ski

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You think I take too much? OK. I follow the recommendations of people who are supposed to know about the question. The results are effective, my skin got different, clearest.
But may be I take a little too much, I agree. Actually what happens is that, as a vegetarian, sometimes some dishes don't have much taste, then I use oil and pepper to give some more :)
seasoning is everything i find if you know how to season you dont need to use oil that has been the hardest thing for me because before going vegan food tasted good no matter what because of all the added **** in it
 

IGottogetout

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yes, probably. A tablespoon a day is certainly sufficient and it is more or less what I take daily

i use that 1 kcal spray don't be anal in moderation is fine you have to live a little
I lIve ! I don't see any problem :)
 
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IGottogetout

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Hi,

"Olive oil and colza oil : "
Translated from a French site :
Olive oil is rich in monounsaturated fatty acids, which promote the production of good cholesterol and fight against bad. It also contains antioxidants, but, unlike its opponent of the day, it contains little omega-3.
Colza oil is known for its high omega-3 content. These fatty acids contribute to the proper functioning of the cardiovascular system. It is also a source of vitamin E, a powerful antioxidant that protects cells from aging.

If I rely on what I read in the past, the omega 6 acids (in Olive oil) are necessary for our health, and our body is unable to produce it without an external source. The big problem in our occidental societies is the lack of Omega 3, and the bad ratio Omega 3/Omega 6, for many people.
My origins make that I like the taste of olive oil, plus in France, it was also a good alternative to butter, which is used a lot to fried food. I don't fry my food anymore since a while, especially since vegetarian. I did it a lot more when younger. I prefer to pour raw oils on my cooked dishes of course.
My parents are from Spain. In France people love to cook with butter and to add milk cream too to their dishes, which is tasty but unhealthy (saturated fat). It's the issue of the weight of traditions and of habits.
we don't use to do things only because it's good. It would be too simple

The use of olive oil forms also part of the "Mediterranean diet" touted by many people as good for health. In Italy there' s places with a lot of centenarians a in good condition.
The Dr Valter Longo which is a searcher in the aging field, speaks about them in his book: "The longevity diet". I'm reading it.
His researches led him to advise us to fast regularly too. it's very interesting. I saw him in the Michel Mosley 's documentary broadcasted on the BBC few years ago, and which is still available through the BBC Iplayer online, I believe, if you’re located in the UK
You can watch it here too, and it is worth it i think :
And M.Mosley wrote a best seller following that (which i didn't read) :
https:confused:/www.amazon.co.uk/Fast-Diet-Healthy-Revised-Updated/dp/1780722370/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1541448894&sr=1-4&refinements=p_27:Michael+Mosley
anybody knows that ?
do you fast sometimes ?
 
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IGottogetout

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Hi,
thanks to you I'm now reading Dr Essesltyne's 2008 book 'Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease'
I have read the first chapter for now. Super interesting.

Although I do not have heart problems, I should probably reduce my oil consumption, even olive oil, if I stick to his recommendations. This is not obvious for me. I love the taste it brings to my dishes. And there are several schools of thought on the subject. But I suppose if I had a cardiovascular system disease I would try to simply banish the oils too and follow his recommendations to the letter.

The way he explains that heart disease simply does not exist in most of the non-Western world because of the food (and life style) is glaring! It gives surgery and drugs, downstream, instead of prevention, upstream, by 'simply' having a healthy diet and lifestyle. What a pity indeed. Financial cost and misfortune that might been completely avoided .

It's really worth thinking about these questions