Spirituality Christian/monotheistic freethought thread

[Blobbenstein]

I was just thinking the Jews pre-Jesus must have felt the power of their destiny. The destiny to be chosen to bear the son of God, the lamb. That must have really given them a sense of destiny that they weren't sure of where that came from, or exactly what that was about.


eta: ok, I wanted to put something somewhere....carry on..................

 

[Second Summer]

I was just thinking the Jews pre-Jesus must have felt the power of their destiny. The destiny to be chosen to bear the son of God, the lamb. That must have really given them a sense of destiny that they weren't sure of where that came from, or exactly what that was about.

I suppose. Of course, the followers of Judaism are still waiting for the Messiah, so I suppose they would still have said sense of destiny. Maybe they felt a bit snubbed when this new religion had such great success with the Messiah they themselves had previously turned down though?

 

[Blobbenstein]

They say a prophet is never recognised in his home town(or something like that). Maybe the Jewish people couldn't recognise the Messiah, if he came from their own culture......maybe they expect someone with an obvious golden glow, who can make rainbows appear by waving his hand etc....I haven't looked into what they were expecting. Maybe a few more bolts of lightning etc.

 

[Blobbenstein]

not that Jesus couldn't make rainbows appear by waving his hand.....just that he probably didn't do that sort of thing most of the time; just walk around in an ordinary robe.

 

[KLS52]

I thought this was interesting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/judaism/beliefs/eyes_1.shtml

Who was Jesus?

So it's fairly easy to see Jesus as a Pharisee from the Liberal wing, probably heavily influenced by the Messianic fervour that was current and, apparently deeply impressed by John the Baptist who may have been associated with the Essenes or some other such separatist sect. He was deeply bothered by the Temple excesses of the time, didn't want to get involved in the politics, and wanted the people to be take themselves seriously as being able to bring about God's kingdom on Earth by right living.

But I can't see Jesus as the Messiah we Jews are waiting for. And nor, as the Gospel accounts themselves make clear, could the disciples who knew him once he was executed. After the crucifixion, the disciples did not sit around calmly and reassure each other that all was going according to plan. They were instead understandably devastated. This was not the messianic plan. Nothing in Jewish teaching had suggested the execution of the Messiah. Not one of them was able to come up with the idea that this was all as it should be. It wasn't. They had invested their faith in this man and he was now dead.

And this is the fresh mystery at the heart of the Christian story - and one which raises no echoes or meaning for Jews. Something happened back then that first Easter that persuaded those disheartened followers that what they'd been expecting and waiting for, what they believed Jesus was about despite - or because of? - their years of living in his company and hearing his teachings - wasn't the point after all. It was all entirely different to the way Jews had understood the idea of the messiah for centuries... and still do.

And fair enough. But you'll have to understand when we Jews look at the claims made about Jesus with incomprehension and remain true to our own tradition. After all, Jesus did.