Californians, vote yes on 12

Lou

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Not that us Vegans really care about Animal Welfare laws (we wouldn't need animal welfare laws if everyone just agreed to stop eating animals). but this is still better than the alternative - which happens to be reality.

As a Californian, I will feel proud if this law gets passed.

I just tried to find the correct quote - but i can't find it anywhere. but I think I remember that this initiative would be the strongest animal welfare law in the USA - Maybe the world.


https://preventcrueltyca.com
 
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Nekodaiden

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My cynical side bristles when I see commercials like this:


The caged animals, our responsibility, the proposal, the pictures of free roaming animals in large cage free spaces.....yes, we must do what's right. Right?

But the proposal actually reads:

https:confused:/vig.cdn.sos.ca.gov/2018/general/pdf/topl.pdf#prop12 said:
(1)
Confining a covered animal in a manner that
prevents the animal from lying down, standing
up, fully extending the animal’s limbs, or
turning around freely.
(2)
After December 31, 2019, confining a calf
raised for veal with less than 43 square feet of
usable floorspace per calf.
(3)
After December 31, 2021, confining a
breeding pig with less than 24 square feet of
usable floorspace per pig.
(4)
After December 31, 2019, confining an
egg-laying hen with less than 144 square inches
of usable floorspace per hen.
(5)
After December 31, 2021, confining an
egg-laying hen with less than the amount of
usable floorspace per hen required by the 2017
edition of the United Egg Producers’ Animal
Husbandry Guidelines for U.S. Egg-Laying
Flocks: Guidelines for Cage-Free Housing or in
an enclosure other than a cage-free housing
system.
Take a sec and calculate those areas. Besides the fact that California already voted to get rid of cages by 2015, this proposal not only extends cages but they are anything but "free range". 1 ft by 1ft area for a chicken (144 sq inches) !

I suggest Californians who care about this issue inform themselves on what they are really voting for instead of falling for slick marketing designed by the farm industry itself:

http:confused:/voterguide.sos.ca.gov/propositions/12/

https:confused:/stoptherottenegginitiative.org/
 

Sax

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Nekodaiden, are you saying that you believe animals will be worse off than they currently are because of this legislation?
 

Lou

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From my local paper, "
California already has some of the most rigorous laws in the country regarding farm animal welfare, but the state’s rules surrounding pigs, chickens and cows could get even stricter.

On Tuesday, the Humane Society of the United States introduced a ballot initiative called the Prevention of Cruelty to Farm Animals Act, which calls for a requirement that all pork and veal sold in California be produced without restrictive crates, and that all eggs produced and sold in the state be cage-free. It would make California the only state other than Massachusetts, which passed similar legislation last year, to have such regulations on farm animal welfare."


"https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/article/New-ballot-initiative-could-increase-California-12159349.php

I'm not saying its the best thing ever. Just a better thing. However, I can't seem to find the quote but I thought that I read its will be the strongest animal welfare law in the US if not the world.

Of course it would be a lot better if we didn't need animal welfare laws. but we don't live in that world yet.
 

Nekodaiden

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Nekodaiden, are you saying that you believe animals will be worse off than they currently are because of this legislation?
I suggest that the links I posted say it better than I can. Nothing surprises me with this stuff. Not unlike politics and "freedom" legislation that actually limits freedom. If people care enough to vote, care enough to read what's actually stated in the proposal itself.
 

Sax

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If people care enough to vote, care enough to read what's actually stated in the proposal itself.
I agree, but I've also found that to be of limited utility. Even groups of policy experts have to perform sophisticated analysis to try to predict the effects of policy proposals...I'm doing well enough if I can simply translate the legalese into plain english. And often that plain english doesn't shed much light on even the intended effects. I've found reading about the proposal from multiple trusted sources to be much more illuminating than the actual legal text itself. Generally speaking.
 
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Nekodaiden

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All laid out here, exposing the deceptions of and behind this proposed legislation, and the ramifications of it:

 
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